Sikh student allowed to bring religous sword to school

originally posted by: nukedog
a reply to: skalla
But I can see how people would be in the all or nothing camp. I admit it's a double standard but the only people that will get offended are the kinds of people that got us into this mess. Intolerant pig heads.

It's the WHOLE goddamn point. DOUBLE STANDARD. Don't you get it?

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: nukedog

Well from a personal POV i think the political spectrum is BS and i only shout at the top of my lungs when i stub my toe or the Wolves win.

Lol well fair enough. I apologize to anybody I offended that got offended about this op though.

I don't really have anything to contribute here as far as a solution goes other than live and let live.

Now if a Muslim carries a knife to school, by all means he's clearly a terrorist and a threat to the religious fundamental ideals this nation was founded on. If nothing else he should get his "re education" at Guantanamo.

a reply to: nukedog

No offence even noticed etc

As for the last paragraph, that's why i alluded to Sikh history as the "Muslims! Panic!" crowd would love the blooming Sikhs if they read a little more. A bloody tale it is too.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
Those should be the same rules and standards used regarding a 'Pocket Knife' but they aren't.

Because pocket knives are not a religious item.

originally posted by: StoutBroux

originally posted by: nukedog
a reply to: skalla
But I can see how people would be in the all or nothing camp. I admit it's a double standard but the only people that will get offended are the kinds of people that got us into this mess. Intolerant pig heads.

It's the WHOLE goddamn point. DOUBLE STANDARD. Don't you get it?

Yes I stated multiple times now I see the double standard. What do you want me to do? Scream? Would you like me to wish for shike detention camps or bar them from public education? How about we pass some sort of zero tolerance policy so if any kid so much as shapes his hand in the form of a gun we question him with law enforcement personnel.

For crying out loud quit being so offended.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Because pocket knives are not a religious item.

You can bold it, italic it or even make it a headline but it's still a double standard.

Hey, I'm all for religious freedom. But call it what it is.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Well Kirpans were not worn in the UK by the thousand or so Sikhs that lived near me when one was free to carry a blade in the UK.

Knives in school belong in the canteen and arts and craft classes.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Well Kirpans were not worn in the UK by the thousand or so Sikhs that lived near me when one was free to carry a blade in the UK.

Knives in school belong in the canteen and arts and craft classes.

How do you know they weren't carrying a blade? Also, are yall not allowed to carry a blade anymore?

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Religious freedom is only allowed, (actually grandstanded) for Muslims right now, and it is being done to spite that other religion and to be used as a political tool against that other religion. I would mention what that is but you know exactly which one I mean and so does everyone else who can be honest about this.

Sikhs are not Muslims. Source Different deity, different holy book, different origin.

In that light, the rest of your post is irrelevant.

originally posted by: nukedog

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Well Kirpans were not worn in the UK by the thousand or so Sikhs that lived near me when one was free to carry a blade in the UK.

Knives in school belong in the canteen and arts and craft classes.

How do you know they weren't carrying a blade? Also, are yall not allowed to carry a blade anymore?

Because i knew them well and asked them - i played around their houses after school, had supper at theirs etc. I saw the blades in their houses and witnessed some of the Sword carrying rituals in their back gardens etc. The ones who wore them did so openly.

In the uk iirc you can only carry a non locking folder of less than 2 inch cutting edge iirc, unless you have very good reason.

I've worked in woods etc for much of the last decade and have walked down high streets with axe handles and billhooks sticking out of my back pack and a bundle of razor sharp blades inside and *never* been so much as questioned though (in spite of being regularly passed by police cars), and am happy i could explain it all to a reasonable cop (we have those in the UK) and walk away without an issue.

After thinking about this issue the following can be stated:

We should be tolerant to other faiths and the articles of said faiths. We should respect and accept those differing points of view. However, the school should not be allowing said article of faith on school grounds, and it should be explained that if they do this, then what is to stop other students and parents from demanding the same rights for their children and what about say Physical Education?

This is going to go badly on the part of the school as it opened up a door for other alternative faiths to demand that their children be allowed to bring articles of their faith to class, having such on them. Do we now allow this, where there is a risk of such to the student body and staff?

originally posted by: SLAYER69
You can bold it, italic it or even make it a headline but it's still a double standard.

I agree it's a double standard for one student to carry a weapon in school because it's religious to him, but it's not OK for another student to carry even the exact same thing because it's not in HIS religion. I agree with you. My first post in this thread says it's hypocritical. That is my position. I was just answering your statement about a pocket knife. That doesn't mean I agree with the double standard. I don't.

MY problem is will allowing religious freedom to rule the day. NO ONE should be allowed to carry a weapon at school, if that's the rule. Making an exception "because of religion" is something I've had just about enough of!

When "religious freedom" means that the religious don't have to live by the same standards as the rest of us, I have a problem with that.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Ah... The Unintended consequences argument.

First of all I'm biased as heck because there was a time in this country when kids carried their hunting rifles to school and I think the presence of guns actually lowers the risk of gun violence. I know. Cray cray

Second of all, the problem in this logic is that you foresee kids carrying yamerkas and goat heads to school as being a problem. Or a bible. An article of religious faith is just that and until said kid demands another kid to worship his freshly sacrificed goat head I'm cool with it. Oh wait.... We are supposed to be tolerant of atheists I forgot. God forbid we tick them off.

Lastly, kids bring switch blades and guns to school all the time. Maybe the little shikes got it right in their religion. Might as well have it as an "article of faith" the same way I have a shotgun at my house for the same reasons.

Besides, I would imagine the only reason we are talking about shikes is that they actually take an interest in staying personally armed.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Totally agree. If we allow people to disobey the rules (or laws) in the name of "practicing their religion", we should do it for ALL religions.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: sdcigarpig

Totally agree. If we allow people to disobey the rules (or laws) in the name of "practicing their religion", we should do it for ALL religions.

I agree as well. As long as it stands inside the bounds of reason. I don't think this is outside the bounds of reason, hence my personal opinion and stance. I can see that a lot of people are terrified of sharp pointy objects and I don't think any less of them.

a reply to: skalla

Oddly enough it did help me grasp mathematics (I have discalculus) but OT religious freedom is hypocritical lately.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
Those should be the same rules and standards used regarding a 'Pocket Knife' but they aren't.

Because pocket knives are not a religious item.

Actually,i dknt know, im pretty sure a pocket knife could be adequate as a Kirpan. SAS guys wouldnt make a fuss of having to use one, dont see why a sikh would either.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

i do my best craft work in that manner too. It probably explains why i have so many scars on my hands though

originally posted by: nukedog
I agree as well. As long as it stands inside the bounds of reason. I don't think this is outside the bounds of reason, hence my personal opinion and stance. I can see that a lot of people are terrified of sharp pointy objects and I don't think any less of them.

I personally think NO ONE should be permitted to disobey the laws or rules of a school (or country) because of religion. It's dangerously close to the government favoring people who belong to particular religions. They're not going to let snake-handlers bring snakes to school or allow a little Rastafarian to light up in school.

They should be consistent. Either they allow "religious freedom" (meaning rules don't apply to religious people) or they don't.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Right I agree to an extent. I don't want little shikes to be deprived of a good old fashioned public education so I'm trying to slant what I'm saying to suit my preference.

Same way kids noming pop tarts into guns should be the victim of idealigical extremes. Those same kids chewing guns out of pop tarts run around outside with garish plastic toy guns and watch people with guns on the telly all day. God forbid though.... Think of the children. We need zero tolerance and zero appreciation of religion!!!!q1

But seriously, why do you find it necessary to toe some sort of line? Do you really think it would be better for all of us to toe a line?

That's what I love about this op. It pisses of people that are all over the board.

You can't have it both ways. Either you are for of the law taking care of you and yours or you are against the law.

Imagine a time when people didn't tell anybody what to do.... Oh wait.... That never happened.