Sweden Has A Sub That's So Deadly The US Navy Hired It To Play Bad Guy

To be honest what really caught my attention their use of Stirling Engines, but it is an interesting article.

With performance once only within the realm of much more complex, expensive, larger and louder nuclear submarines, AIP technology is revolutionizing the accessibility of long diving and silent running submarine capabilities. There are now multiple AIP concepts out there, with fuel cell based systems being a popular choice as of late. Yet legendary ship builder Kockums was the first to market with their AIP system which utilizes advanced batteries that are charged by 75kw generators. These generators are run by a pair of diesel and liquid oxygen fueled Stirling Engines. The result of this unique, yet remarkably simple system is two weeks of submerged air independent propulsion while traveling at about 6mph. Oh, and Kockums' AIP system is virtually silent, even in comparison to multi-billion dollar nuclear powered boats that still have to pump high-volumes coolant to their reactors.

The Gotland Class can also act like a traditional diesel-electric submarine and run on its standard diesel engines while surfaced or snorkeling. It can also run on battery power alone, where it can hit speeds up to 20 knots submerged. The capability to patrol silently for weeks on AIP, run un-stealthily on its standard diesel engines, or rocket through the water for shorter periods on silent battery power alone, give the Gotland Class a certain tactical agility that is very hard for the enemy to predict.

source

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Well, the surveillance attributes are in question.

As the headlines would have it,
that sub could not find this sub(?)
in its own harbor.

www.worldmag.com...

If you cannot "see" your opponent, your arsenal and propulsion systems matter not.
S&F

P.S. That Sterling Engine is a Sexy piece of Creativity.

a reply to: Wildmanimal

Just testing…

"We assess that the (vessel) that violated our waters has now left,” said Swedish navy Rear Adm. Anders Grenstad.

If they couldn't 'find it' how would they know if it left?

a reply to: intrptr

Exactly.
Right on Target.


Check out the OP"s link (or research yourself)
The Stirling Engine.
It may interest you.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

AIP boats give everyone fits. Diesel electric has always been notoriously hard to even find, let alone track, and AIP boats make that even harder. Get into shallow water, where sonar doesn't work well, and they're almost impossible to find.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Shallow water or not,
there is a magnetic field created.

So rather than Sonar, you employ different
methods.

Satellites don't mind swimming in the

shallow kiddie pool.

Perverted robots that they are.

a reply to: Wildmanimal

And a magnetic field doesn't always mean sub. A MAD boom only lets you know there's SOMETHING that has a magnetic field in the area, and it doesn't tell you exactly where. You still have to prosecute the contact and determine what it is.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That is why we have eyes, ears , and Feelings my Wizard Friend.
Such as Anomalous Displacement Pressure Scanning.

But, we are not supposed to talk about that.

So , We Won't.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Here's some related info for you. Some US submarine nuclear reactors have the capability to run without coolant pumps (Natural circulation) using only the temperature differential to circulate the coolant in order to minimize noise output - Albeit at a reduced power... And could run this way indefinitely - or at least until the food runs out, which is quite a bit longer than the few weeks of AIP. And I'm sure the top speed under natural circulation is higher than the 6mph on AIP as well.

About 15 years ago my sub (an older Ohio Class SSBN) participated in war games. The observers running the games directed us to intentionally make noise (bang on the hull) because nobody could find us... The was not even using natural circulation, on a 20 year old sub, built in the late 70's, based on 60's technology.

Don't take this as dumping on AIP - I can see the advantages of having another form of propulsion (Or in actuality, it's just energy storage). But the quietness of the sub has less to do with AIP than it does the sub being (diesel) electric... Diesel/electric subs have always been very quiet when running on electric. The AIP just allows the sub to operate longer before surfacing/running the diesel to charge its batteries. Now for those countries that don't have the capability/funds to field nuclear powered subs, this is a great innovation. The author of this article just doesn't know enough about sub tech and being a sub guy some things just jumped out at me as being inaccurate and misleading because he doesn't know the capabilities of nuclear subs - And I imagine modern US subs are even quieter than my old sub.

a reply to: Wildmanimal

I found this part of the OP to be a little cryptic:

The incredible capability of Sweden's Gotland Class subs, especially in 'brown water' littoral environments, also brings us back to the peculiar search for a mystery sub just miles from Stockholm. Although Sweden lacks a large anti-submarine force, and especially an aerial contingent, they do have their incredible Gotland Class subs, yet nobody has even mentioned their existence during this whole ordeal. Sometimes the very best way to catch a robber is by asking another robber where they would strike next and how they would go about doing so, and in this case, if there truly was a foreign submarine in Sweden's territorial midst, catching it with another submarine may very well make the most sense.

So if the had found the other sub we they have launched an attack or just pinged it to let them know they were found?

the swiss are some of the best engineers in the world.
one thing that comes to mind about their engineering and machines, is the rig that they built to fight the oil fires in kuwait.
i saw a show back then and they put out more fires with it than most.

originally posted by: Wildmanimal

If you cannot "see" your opponent, your arsenal and propulsion systems matter not. S&F

P.S. That Sterling Engine is a Sexy piece of Creativity.

Exactly ... and the "madness" the Swedes handled the entire scenario, shows they aren't capable of rational thought in an extreme situation. They were acting like mobsters "you dare enter my turf!".

The "other" sub, is probably a new Russian sub ... that is a diesel/battery one, and can dive up to 45 days. It got away ... pretty good resume for the Russians.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

and why wouldn't they ?

the thing is - if you can get the " enemy sub " to do EXACTLY what you want , ie :

1500m off your bow depth 30m speed 3kt , bearing 270 at precisely 13:01.54

then you know what its effect of your environment is simples

you are no longer guessing - do the run 10 times and you know exactly what is random noise , the environment - and more important what is the subs sig

cos - only the sub signature is the same on all 10 runs

then you have a profile - that gives you the basis to generate a profile for other units with the same technology

a reply to: Wildmanimal

Anomalous Displacement Pressure Scanning.

Looking at holes in the ocean? Hmmm… interesting.

Shallow water in fjords and bays is problematic for detection because the sub can hide against the shore and blend in with sonar return clutter. This is true in and amongst undersea mounts and canyons and well as any island galapagos, like everywhere around the entire Eurasian continent.

Sub and surface ship duals are undertaken all the time. Hey ally navy, lets test our metal against yours. Are you game?

Sure, meet you in the ocean…
You can bet the Russians are snickering in their borsch after eluding a whole Navy.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Completely agree...back in 2006 the sub I was on tracked a diesel submarine for almost 2 weeks without many issues. We did this using the BQQ-10 sonar system and I was on an old 688 class submarine. Who knows what capabilities we have now, that was almost 10 years ago. I say its more of how well trained your crew is than anything and I can assure you our submarine force is highly trained!

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
To be honest what really caught my attention their use of Stirling Engines, but it is an interesting article.

With performance once only within the realm of much more complex, expensive, larger and louder nuclear submarines, AIP technology is revolutionizing the accessibility of long diving and silent running submarine capabilities. There are now multiple AIP concepts out there, with fuel cell based systems being a popular choice as of late. Yet legendary ship builder Kockums was the first to market with their AIP system which utilizes advanced batteries that are charged by 75kw generators. These generators are run by a pair of diesel and liquid oxygen fueled Stirling Engines. The result of this unique, yet remarkably simple system is two weeks of submerged air independent propulsion while traveling at about 6mph. Oh, and Kockums' AIP system is virtually silent, even in comparison to multi-billion dollar nuclear powered boats that still have to pump high-volumes coolant to their reactors.

The Gotland Class can also act like a traditional diesel-electric submarine and run on its standard diesel engines while surfaced or snorkeling. It can also run on battery power alone, where it can hit speeds up to 20 knots submerged. The capability to patrol silently for weeks on AIP, run un-stealthily on its standard diesel engines, or rocket through the water for shorter periods on silent battery power alone, give the Gotland Class a certain tactical agility that is very hard for the enemy to predict.

source

Deisel-electric subs have always been harder to find sonographically. They are quiet as heck on battery. The disadvantage is that they are slow and have a limited submerged time on battery but are great wait and attack sort of killers in coastal waters and chokepoints. I've played with a Kilo or two back in the day and they were hard. I can only imagine the technological advances the Swedes have done in the 20 years since then.

In the last years of WW2 the Kreigsmarine had stealth subs, covered in a layer of rubber, they were all destroyed in minefields around Britain.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
the swiss are some of the best engineers in the world.
one thing that comes to mind about their engineering and machines, is the rig that they built to fight the oil fires in kuwait.
i saw a show back then and they put out more fires with it than most.

Yes they are, But the Swiss are in Switzerland....a little landlocked country with no sea.

The Swedes are in Sweden, the opposite end of Europe....and build subs.

And yes, Australian modern conventional subs have sank US navy vessels many times in navy exercises....

The US Navy still cant work it out .

a reply to: gort51

yeah saw that this morning, pardon the dyslexia brain fart.
i have one and the other happens if i don't stay on top of the other,

This goes back to May, 2010. This news report covers it well.

Bottom line? Thank goodness for the nuclear deterrent....

video-of-swedish-sub-that-sunk-the-uss-ronald-reagan-food-for-thought-on-missile-contrail