UK, Europe on collision course over €2.1bn bill

a reply to: LeBombDiggity

IMO you are being defensive, you slagged off the Brits and now swore at two members including myself.

You say you don't want your nationality dissed and yet you did exactly that but don't like it when the tables have been turned. That is what is meant by "throwing stones in glass houses"

C'est la poêle qui se moque du chaudron en lui disant qu'il est noir

What exactly is David Cameron weaselling out of? Europe has a wealth distribution system based on the Eurostat statistics for national GNI. Just because the London (international finance) economy is booming doesn't mean the rest of the country is better off. Perhaps they need to stop looking at national GDP and look at local GDP for regions or cities instead. That would seem to be a better strategy.

a reply to: BMorris

Such a discussion, if free from political spin, would be good. However I can't see any of the main political parties holding an open and honest discussion, without trying to spin their angle to suit their agenda. Sadly.

So it is up to the public to drive the discussion and debate and to force the agenda.
There are enough Euro-sceptics to ensure that all sides get the opportunity to voice their opinions.

In the recent Scottish referendum many ordinary Scots became actively involved in the debate and to a certain extent determined the agenda - that is the model we should follow.

Neither did any of the citizens of the founding EU countries.

So what?
I'm not really interested in how other countries are run - lets put our own house in order first.

It was their government that decided what was best for them. Which is how politics work. Citizens don't vote on individual issues.

And you believe that's right?

The government should reflect the electorates wishes.
It is up to us to reassert our authority over Parliament.

I don't intend to insult or disrespect but you do seem pretty much subservient to the governments will and dictates.
We shouldn't just sit back and blindly accept what they tell us.

Even most of the newer EU members didn't hold a referendum, although a few did.

Again, I don't care what other countries have or haven't done - what concerns me is what the people of the UK want.

There can be no 'honest' debate imho, the politico's will apply too much spin. Everyone needs to do their own research really, in order to make a genuinely informed decision.

Of course everyone should do their own research etc - but we don't have to accept the politicians spin.

For the longest time, the EU actively encouraged us to become more proactive, but we remained sitting on the fence too long. Now they just sideline us. Its something of our own making, sadly.

No, its of successive governments making.

One significant difference however, is that in other EU member states, the general populace can vote for their EU-MP, in the same way as they vote for their national MP's. The EU wants the UK citizens to have the same right, but the UK government keeps refusing us that right (although I do remember getting a EU-MP voting form a few years ago, so maybe that changed).

Really?
We vote for our MEP's, just the same as other countries.....can't you remember the Euro elections back in May??

That really is a glaring error.......

To be fair, the 1.7Bn bill was NOT unexpected, despite what DC claims.

Yes, we know.

His whole rhetoric is just more political spin.

Yes, that's what I said.

For me it comes down to 2 points;
How is it right that the EU can tax the UK on something that is immeasurable and on something that the UK government itself can not tax?

Who has the ultimate authority over the governing of the UK - the UK Parliament or the EU in Brussels?

As if the government would let us do that!

It is up to us to force them to do so - they are our representatives, NOT our masters.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: LeBombDiggity

IMO you are being defensive, you slagged off the Brits and now swore at two members including myself.

You say you don't want your nationality dissed and yet you did exactly that but don't like it when the tables have been turned. That is what is meant by "throwing stones in glass houses"

C'est la poêle qui se moque du chaudron en lui disant qu'il est noir

The poster in question is just scared as he knows his country and the rest of the EU will go under if the UK leaves and they dont offer a trade treaty

originally posted by: stormcell
What exactly is David Cameron weaselling out of? Europe has a wealth distribution system based on the Eurostat statistics for national GNI. Just because the London (international finance) economy is booming doesn't mean the rest of the country is better off. Perhaps they need to stop looking at national GDP and look at local GDP for regions or cities instead. That would seem to be a better strategy.

Maybe this business with that special-snowflake-status of the City of London should be look at, but please from the UK parliament. Otherwise, if the EU would look take that look at the City, it would be considered "keep your f*king hands off! its ours!".

Really, CoL is a very strange concept..

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: LeBombDiggity

IMO you are being defensive, you slagged off the Brits and now swore at two members including myself.

You say you don't want your nationality dissed and yet you did exactly that but don't like it when the tables have been turned. That is what is meant by "throwing stones in glass houses"

C'est la poêle qui se moque du chaudron en lui disant qu'il est noir

The poster in question is just scared as he knows his country and the rest of the EU will go under if the UK leaves and they dont offer a trade treaty

They won't go under straight away but there will be an avalanche of requests for money and Germany is likely to have to foot the bill.....

My analysis of this demand has a lot to do with the fact that they realize we are likely to leave, so they are attempting to get as much out of us before that happens.

Eventually other countries will leave and the EU will crumble.

Korg.

The UK is playing hard ball because of the rise of UKIP in the polls and wants to suck voters from the party but they will still allow immigrants in to force wages down because corporations like cheap labour costs and this is why immigrants queue up in France to get over to the UK where the governments wants them.

Part of the bill will be paid and half of it will come back in grants, its all lies, spin and propganda with your working man picking up the bill who has no say in what goes on.

Even immigrants are getting upset as more are let in because it is pushing there wages down too and when the numbers are right TPTB will start race wars and a quick review of history in India will back up these facts.

Remove all the bankers and lawyers from government and we won't have any heads left to remove

originally posted by: alldaylong

I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

No surprise there then.

That's really no surprise, I assume you're a patriot, racist, narrow minded, arrogant and living of benefits. No surprise you don't have a clue. I can give you one: leave the EU, let's talk in a few years, or months then.
And to repeat, because reading seems to be too much to ask, traitors and SaudiArabian sell-outs that's why you have to pay.... So join your future allies now, terrorists, Africa and Asia and leave the more responsible ones trying to make reasonable, commonunity based, ecological business.

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: alldaylong

I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

No surprise there then.

That's really no surprise, I assume you're a patriot, racist, narrow minded, arrogant and living of benefits. No surprise you don't have a clue. I can give you one: leave the EU, let's talk in a few years, or months then.
And to repeat, because reading seems to be too much to ask, traitors and SaudiArabian sell-outs that's why you have to pay.... So join your future allies now, terrorists, Africa and Asia and leave the more responsible ones trying to make reasonable, commonunity based, ecological business.

I think it's you who doesn't have a clue.

The UK doesn't rely on the EU for anything other than trade.

The reason the UK want out of the EU is not only do we not rely on the EU for anything but we actually end up paying out to the tune of 8.2 billion pounds for the privilege of getting nothing.

Not to mention the massive flood of people all coming over here taking our jobs and sending money out of our economy while claiming child support benefits for children that live in a foreign country and putting a massive strain on our public services!

The EU benefits from the UK being in the EU but we are damaged by being in it!

Korg.

This what the Benefits the EU has for everyone willing to join them.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
This what the Benefits the EU has for everyone willing to join them.

Ecactly! I was in ex Yougo Bosnia, Croatia, Serb areas recently, met people excited about joining the EU. I just thought kiss goodbye to your industry, get your daughters redy for the brothels, give up any form of national independence, let your ancient identity be steamrolled by waves of immigrants, hey you are going to have a ball

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: alldaylong

I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

No surprise there then.

That's really no surprise, I assume you're a patriot, racist, narrow minded, arrogant and living of benefits. No surprise you don't have a clue. I can give you one: leave the EU, let's talk in a few years, or months then.
And to repeat, because reading seems to be too much to ask, traitors and SaudiArabian sell-outs that's why you have to pay.... So join your future allies now, terrorists, Africa and Asia and leave the more responsible ones trying to make reasonable, commonunity based, ecological business.

Do you have any friends ?

originally posted by: alldaylong


Do you have any friends ?

Likely fellow MEP's

a reply to: Peeple

You appear quite an angry person, and resentful.

There is nothing personal intended here.

And I wouldn't say anyone is overtly nationalistic and certainly not racist - other than perhaps you with your apparent anti-British bigotry?

My personal dissatisfaction with the EU has its origins in the referendum in 1975.
The British people voted for continued membership of the 'Common Market' - effectively a free trade association.
And the British people are still almost unanimously in favour of keeping close trading links with our continental neighbours.

But we've never been asked about political union or the transfer of sovereignty to a body other than our own elected Parliament.

There is growing discontent within the UK regarding what is perceived as the increasing dominance in authority of Brussels - effectively the EU is imposing laws / rules etc on the UK that are contrary to the best interests and will of the British people.
This current manifestation of European federalism is authoritarian in nature.

I bear no ill will to any European nation or people.
I have travelled quite extensively within Europe and met some wonderful people and had some great times.
People are people the world over.

All we want is the opportunity to have a discussion on the pro's and con's of continued membership of the EU and the chance to express our Right to Self-Determination.

Exactly what is wrong with that?

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Yeah...nice.

If we're very, very lucky...the EU will kick the UK out for non-payment...hopefully sooner rather than later.

originally posted by: LeBombDiggity
Our life choices have had nothing to do with economic or governmental systems, we're both subject to circumstances and where life has taken us.

So shut the # up.

Your life choices as a French national living in the UK are absolutely to do with the EU and free movement of people rights, so your original comment...

originally posted by: LeBombDiggity
Keep your money, £1.7 billion is a price well worth paying to be rid of the British.

...is contradictory at best while you enjoy the benefits of living in the UK but wish to 'be rid of the British'.
Piss off back to France before you slate my nation which you are only able to choose to live in as a direct result of the UK being in the EU.
...hopefully if we leave the EU then the likes of yourself will no longer have automatic right to reside here. I hope so.

a reply to: grainofsand

As predicted, France all of sudden now is willing to tighten its budget with 3.6/3.7 Euros more while they said they wouldn`t do it. That leaves room for UK, Netherlands and Italy to go ahead with payment also because France now is doing its part.

Politics is so easy to predict, it`s all just a big show and they are all in on it.