When you fight to change society, you must have peace when it collapses

I was watching a movie "Little Murders" on TV when a character said:

When you fight to change a system, you have to be completely at peace when that system collapses.

From my point of view the USA is in the middle of a total collapse:

economically (40% of all US adults are unemployed and the government is preparing to admit hundreds of thousands of more illegal aliens very soon to give out up to 9 million work permits)

socially (the government actually encourages groups to hate each other racially; economically - rich vs poor; conservative vs liberal; people of faith vs atheists)

survival (with the government allowing drug resistant TB, Enterovirus, Ebola into the country with impunity)

morally (heterosexuals are viewed with great hostility; people of all faiths are considered dangerous to society; christians are threatened with losing businesses or arrest for not turning in sermons for simply having faith at all)


So now that we have had six years of fundamental change in the US
are you at peace with the collapse?

What am I missing that has collapsed in the US over the past 6 years or more? Have the liberals and progressives finally won?

a reply to: grandmakdw
What???

a reply to: grandmakdw

Yes. They have won.

The only thing missing is a reward system where I get something from the government for turning you in for saying such things.

a reply to: onequestion

It is a philosophical question.

The government has fought hard the past 6 years to fundamentally change the USA

Are the supporters of the fundamental change at peace with the collapse of the USA that is happening all around us?

I forgot the change into a complete surveillance society, where every step outside the home is watched on average every 150 feet, where every email is stored by the government, every phone call we make the person we talked with is recorded, every thing we google is stored.

Are the supporters of the fundamental change at peace with all of this?

A philosophical question.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Wow...

That was perhaps one of the most obscure opening posts, that I have ever read. Responding to your thread premise, yes, when you wish to make a ground up change to a system as vast and long standing as a government, you have to be prepared to smile while the obsolete system and its structure burns.

I have been preparing my grinning muscles for some time!

a reply to: grandmakdw

Your use of the word Progressive, also would have to relate to the Republicans as well!

This collapse was planned and both bought and paid for parties are going along with it!

As far as peace in a collapse?

Won't happen! Look at how selfish and uncaring the world has become. What do you think the possibilities of peace are when all you have to do is look at how divided we have all become?

a reply to: TrueBrit

Ok, glad you are at peace:
with societal total surveillance
rampant racism
rampant class hatred
rampant hatred between conservative vs liberal
rampant hatred between religious and atheist
almost as many adults without jobs as with jobs and bringing in more people and give them jobs, taking from citizens
extreme distrust of the nuclear family
welcoming deadly disease into the country through governmental policies
destroying people of faith just because they hold that faith and dare to talk about it

If you are at peace with all of those things, then fine.

That's the way society has become and that is the way it will stay and continue down the path of more hatred, distrust and destruction. It's ok if you feel that way, just sad you enjoy it.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: grandmakdw

Your use of the word Progressive, also would have to relate to the Republicans as well!

This collapse was planned and both bought and paid for parties are going along with it!

As far as peace in a collapse?

Won't happen! Look at how selfish and uncaring the world has become. What do you think the possibilities of peace are when all you have to do is look at how divided we have all become?

You may have a point.

However, the current administration ran on a platform of

fundamentally changing the USA

at every level.

It has been achieved.

The old guard Republicans may have played a part, no denying that,

but they did not

run on that platform or promise the USA that

fundamental change would be their #1 priority.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I think if the system collapses there will be no surveillance, there will only be chaos. I will smile because at least that would be honest. The faux democracy of today is a lie, and the coming chaos might kill me, it might be harrowing, and one way or another it will be hard work, but nothing that is easy is worth doing in my veiw.

Those willing to kill for left and right will wipe themselves out, and provided sensible people can avoid being dragged into that idiocy, then perhaps something better than the sham we all live in today will rise in its place. Surely that potential is worth smiling about?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Can anyone point to a time period where there was actual sustained peace?

Seems like we are a war-like species. We always have been. Oh sure, we talk a good game, but we are always at war. Either with another population, with a religion(s), with terror, with drugs, with races, with each other, with social classes, with "ratings".

We are the haters.

And haters are always gonna hate.

a reply to: grandmakdw

What am I missing that has collapsed in the US over the past 6 years or more? Have the liberals and progressives finally won?

The "collapse" was triggered and symbolized in the falling Twin Towers on 911, which, I believe was orchestrated by the "regressive" hawks of the conservative left. What's happening now is all part of the plan.

The King is dead! Long live the King!

a reply to: TrueBrit

So anarchy

total and complete destruction of society

rampant murder

are things you look forward to?

Well, one thing is for sure, it will take us back to Kings and Dictators to bring society back under control. At least if one uses history as a guide for what happens when a society falls into complete and total collapse. Don't think your utopia has a prayer of happening if complete anarchy, murder and chaos is what you are hoping for. Ok, looks like you may be the big winner here.

a reply to: beezzer


Sad but true.

Humans are incapable of utopia because we are so basically selfish.

The harder we reach for utopia the more we fall into totalitarianism and fascism.

I just hate to see the USA falling into totalitarianism and fascism - where I see it heading and heading fast with all the fundamental change that is happening.

I will just kick back, relax, and watch it burn. Some appropriate music and good drink will make it that much more entertaining. I am at peace with the inevitable.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I would prefer to live in a world where nations are run by people who wish to serve their fellow countrymen and women, not be served by them. I would like to live in a world where no small number of people accumulate outrageous percentages of power and money, when compared with their fellow human beings, where everyone has an exactly equal say, where law ONLY protects the innocent, rather than offering loopholes to the guilty, where no organisation has the right to observe everyone, all the time, IN CASE they commit crime.

I would like to think that we could do better than we do now, without the chaotic downfall of society as we know it, but I do not believe that. So, do I WANT murder, bloodshed, chaos, pain, horrors unimaginable befalling my fellow man? No. Would I prefer to go through a period of that followed by something freer than we have now, where every person has freedom equal to their responsibility, and every person has responsibility to one another and to the whole? Yes.

Also, I find your deliberate, and obtuse understanding of my viewpoint tiresome. You know very well exactly what I do, and do not mean by what I say, and I know that because I have made these things plain. If you need further clarification, what you need is a lesson in English comprehension, rather than further clarification from me.

I think it more or less on how one is dependent on society or the government. Most people on here would be getting their crosses and holding their shotguns thinking their ready for anarchy if the government had broken down. Law enforcement and government officials would have their hands filled with whomever never liked their authority. And they'd probably lose too, seeing as how the mighty dollar can only motivate one so much.

Those whom the government relies on however, aka, independent tax payers could avoid most of the damage, and not give a crap about it. Only thing they'd have to worry about is their own, not the government, so yea, peace of mind would be a valuable asset.

Problem is, I can see a pecking order happening, like it was Rick grimes from walking dead.

It's better to be poor when the financial system collapse, so you can't lose the money you don't have.
It's better to have terminal cancer when catching Ebola, it helps bringing your suffering to an end.
It's better to live on hills when the big flood happens, you're dry and in the right spot for a landslide.
It's better to realise that apocalypse is derived from the word 'revelation' in Greek and does not mean end-of-times.

When you fight to change a system, you have to be completely at peace when that system collapses.

That is somewhat esoteric and could relate to any system... Including belief.

I watched an awesome documentary on Netflix last night called " I Am " by filmmaker Tom Shadyac who interviewed philosophers and spiritual leaders about world problems and how even one person can create positive change by carrying a love frequency. According to this film, the main problem lies with societal indoctrination to create self-centered and competitive individuals with the compulsion to consume and accumulate more than they need when physiologically, the ultimate human state is the exact opposite; love, compassion and altruism.

I remember back in the 90's when 'conspicuous consumption' was respected and flaunted. It's nauseating now. The old system didn't work because it didn't honor each other, or the planet. I think most people are realizing this.

Ordo ab chao - Out of chaos, comes order

E pluribus unum - Out of many, one

a reply to: TrueBrit

What you are hoping for after all the anarchy/murder and chaos cease is utopia.

Human beings are far too selfish and self centered to ever make a utopia work.

Every form of utopia ever thought of by man has been of a world so controlled so uniform as to be bleak in it execution.

Utopia will never result from chaos/murder/and anarchy, the only result will be a much more restrictive form of government. It has been that way throughout history, and humans have not fundamentally changed since cave man days. Someone will always want to control others , have a bigger slice of mastodon, and find a way to do it by force or coercion.

To create Utopia everyone has to want to be identical because differences cause envy or jealousy or suspicious hatred; it has always been that way and always will, unless you can somehow get humans to never experience envy, jealousy, or be afraid of what is different or unknown. Won't happen.

The way we are headed now in the US, mark my words
will lead to the most repressive
most controlling
most intolerant
form of government the world has ever seen.
It is inevitable, especially if anarchy/murder/and chaos reign.