All Conspiracy Theories Are False

I have been a member of this forum for nine years. During that time, I have become acquainted with literally dozens of conspiracy theories, most of which I never suspected the existence of until I read about them here.

Few of these theories can easily be proven or disproven. If they could, they would not have such long lives as they do. However, the 'evidence' adduced by conspiracy theorists for their theories is always quite easy to disprove. In many cases,the 'evidence' presented does not substantiate the theory at all. Some theories are presented without evidence; usually these are the more absurd ones, which end up in the Gray Area or the Skunk Works.

The fact is that, in nine years as a member of the world's most popular conspiracy web site, I have yet to see a single conspiracy theory proven true.

This does not surprise me. Conspiracy theories are not conspiracies. They are, instead, made-up explanations as to how and why certain historical events occurred (or are held not to have occurred, as in the Moon landing conspiracy theory). They are folklore, not fact.

Here is list of popular conspiracy theories from Wikipedia. It is not exhaustive but it covers a pretty broad spectrum. All of them have been discussed on ATS. In some cases the theories are decades, even centuries old. To date, not one has been proven, despite the undoubtedly diligent efforts of their proponents to prove them.

I say to you, my friends, that all conspiracy theories (as opposed to genuine conspiracies discovered after the fact) are false, imaginary and/or impossible to prove. I would be interested to see if anybody can show me that I am wrong.

By the way, this thread was inspired by another, in which I argue much the same thesis: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Huh? Lots of things discussed here wind up coming out as true. I suppose it all depends on what is considered to be a conspiracy, most of the stuff we get right is just observations of things that are starting to unfold.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

You are both wrong and right.

Consider Starbuck's Pebbles:



kallisti

The horrid MKULTRA projects became conspira-fact. I know what you mean to some degree, but your premise is too broad and thusly defeats itself as validating your thread title/thesis.

Sounds more like rant forum material jus' sayin.'

a reply to: Astyanax

I would start with the simplest, most available concept of it appearing and demonstrated in American jurisprudence/law, as it is unawful to conspire to commit a crime. It acknowledges, simply, that human beings conspire, on any scale, whatsoever.

This, by definition, asserts that people do, in fact, conspire, for whatever reason, and that when it is attendant to and results in a crime, it will be punishable, as such. But it obviously nods to the predisposition of people to combine in groups of similar interests and goals to conspire to cover up their behavior. Otherwise there would not be many laws on the books necessary to deal with the unlawfulness of conspiring against individuals, helpless to it, or even groups, equally helpless to it--especially if they are not cognizant of it happening to them, as their lives unravel or destroyed, seemingly inexplicably, as those who conspire at high levels of power, able to maintain secrecy better than civilians, often do so undetected and unexposed.


Would you not agree to that for a start, for it seems to me, this logically applies to what is applied and exposed on this we site, though, albeit, usually on a larger scale with greater causes and effects.
Regards,
tetra50
ETA: What gut said. It's a proven fact this existed. There is quite a bit of evidence it persists. Incontrovertibe evidence. I would point once again, to courts of law. They wouldn't have found it necessary to make laws against psychotronic weapons being used on the population, or individuals, without their consent. Nor would the military and congress, themselves, have admitted, in open statements, that they had conspired to use some of the population, without their consent, in "human use experimentation," outlawed it and kind of apologized for it. Not to mentioin there are actual special operations military badges that exist for Mind Warfare and such….
And I do believe President Clinton apologized for MK Ultra, at a point in his presidency, though exactly what he was actually apologizing for is debatable as his references were still necessarily, politically ambiguous.

a reply to: rickymouse

Lots of things discussed here wind up coming out as true.

Name a conspiracy theory discussed here that has been proven true. One will do.

a reply to: The GUT

your premise is too broad

I have left it deliberately broad to give those who would oppose it as much room to manoeuvre as they could wish.

Was there really a widely held conspiracy theory about 'government mind control' that was current prior to the MK-Ultra revelations? The tragic personal delusions of paranoid schizophrenics don't count.

As I said in the thread that provoked this one, MK-Ultra was an example of what happens when paranoiacs get to implement policy. It is not an example of a conspiracy theory that was proven true.

Here is 33 of them that were proven to be true. I know its on Alex Jones site, love him or hate him(I personally dont care for him) but hey, you cannot argue facts.
www.infowars.com...

a reply to: tetra50

As I was at pains to point out in my opening post, a conspiracy uncovered after the fact is not the same thing as an already existing conspiracy theory that was proven true. The former are commonplace; the latter do not exist.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Your source apparently cannot tell the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thesmokingman

Your source apparently cannot tell the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory.

Really? Two minutes since I posted it you have read all 33 and made that determination? Try again.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: rickymouse

Lots of things discussed here wind up coming out as true.

Name a conspiracy theory discussed here that has been proven true. One will do.

Many Obama.Care conspiracies have been threaded here.

Many have come true.

"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" is one.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thesmokingman

Your source apparently cannot tell the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy:a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful/the action of plotting or conspiring.
Theory:a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained/a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.

a reply to: Astyanax

Yes, it was, in fact. www.abovetopsecret.com... by member B. Morrison
I suggest you check out in the RATS section which I cannot quote directly from a most comprehensive list of declassified documents, available from the government library, itself, proving these activities, in great detail.

I suggest you show yourself and your attitude by your avatar's "Mind Firmly Closed." This will get you nowhere, for if one believes they have all the answers already, they have necessarily ceased to learn anything and therefore, have reached a dead end in life, for no growth then is possible. And then you will filter out, by necessity, to remain in your comfort zone of having already learned everything worth learning, which stopped at some indefineable point for you…..and more's the pity. A sad way to go through life, really, thinking one has already learned everything.

And then your avatar, itself, is a testament to that, as it seems you believe that anything more you are listsening to or learning or intaking via your hearing is from an animal, and a reptile, at that. Interesting, I always thought, about your representation of yourself hereabouts.

OH and ETA: I know well your opinion of paranoid schizophrenics. I don't believe it's even a recognized modern diagnosis in the current DSM, btw. That's even more informed, but you haven't learned more about that your favorite label, yet. Because you've stopped learning, with a mind firmly closed.

To be personal, btw: I have take six MMPI I and II tests, over a 25 to 30 yr. period, and never once tested as anything but clinically depressed due to a chronic pain condition. It is the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Index, and the accepted and definitive psychiatric diagnoses testing procedure by the APA, and all other psychiatric certifing bodies.

Although there is no way to actually quantify this, I have had discussions with family members who were theorising in the 1960s that there was a government program to discredit civil rights protesters. Lo and behold, we have COINTELPRO.

Now COINTELPRO was exposed in 1971, and I can only go on what others have told me, but I have no reason to doubt their claims. Perhaps this is also too broad, as plenty of counter-culture types believed the government was infiltrating groups in order to discredit them, but no doubt they couldn't name specifics, and were far more likely to blame the CIA rather than the FBI.

There was also the shooting/assassination of Fred Hampton, who many believe a conspiracy existed to take him out.

a reply to: Astyanax

What about The expanding Universe theory, or the Big Bang theory? Evolution? Life elsewhere? Were did the seed, egg, womb and cell division come from? How did it get here? All theories.

According to your statement that there are no conspiracies (wth?) then there are no truths either… just theories.

To which I say, "Oh? Is that the truth?"

originally posted by: Astyanax
I have been a member of this forum for nine years.

Thanks for sticking around.

During that time, I have become acquainted with literally dozens of conspiracy theories,

That's all? There's hundreds you know. Possibly even triple digits with 9/11 alone.

The fact is that, in nine years as a member of the world's most popular conspiracy web site, I have yet to see a single conspiracy theory proven true.

huh

Maybe you're not paying attention.

We outlined a government conspiracy to suppress a private company here.

We exposed the effects of the government conspiracy to allow unchecked campaign spending here and here.

We exposed aspects of the government conspiracy in the war on drugs here.

Looking broader, the long-standing over-arching "conspiracy theory" of vast government surveillance and monitoring of its citizens has been proven by the Snowden revelations. Seriously, this was a very significant and broad core conspiracy theory for more than a decade, proven to be true.

Let's see… Iran Contra was a "conspiracy theory" gaining momentum on nascent BBS boards and independent counter-culture newspapers until it was exposed as true.

Oh… and then there's Watergate that was dismissed as a "conspiracy theory" before it (and more) was proven to be true.

Then there's the CIA and FBI's involvement in the drug that was also long considered a "conspiracy theory", then proven to be true.

There's also the FBI's COINTELPRO programs in LA that "radicalized" gangs and created the gang wars. It was originally a "conspiracy theory", proven to be true about 10 years ago.

We also have that pesky really big "conspiracy theory", the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, which was the pretext to get serious with the Vietnam war -- but never happened, and proven as such. It was a "conspiracy theory" for decades.

And right now we have a fairly large "conspiracy theory" about to be exposed, with the administration's Fast and Furious shenanigans about to come to light.


I could go on, there's lots more. With that in mind, how have you come to the absurd conclusion outlined in your opening post?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: tetra50

As I was at pains to point out in my opening post, a conspiracy uncovered after the fact is not the same thing as an already existing conspiracy theory that was proven true. The former are commonplace; the latter do not exist.

There must have been a theory of conspiracy must exist for the conspiracy uncovered and to have happened to even occur. Your logic is faulty. That some are uncovered and then proven to exist, means there had to be ones which existed which were not uncovered.

Your logic is obviously faulty from the outset because you insist this is all or nothing. There are absolutely no absolutes. All conspiracy theories are false is not at all logical, as it is an absolute, which only allows there is conspiracy when discovered, but none possible which are hidden. If ones are uncovered, there must of necessity, logically been ones that were not uncovered and then exist only as theories.

a reply to: Astyanax

By definition of what a conspiracy is they are almost all true. That doesn't mean we have all the facts or the players involved figured out correctly or that we have all the facts straight or correct but as far as them being a conspiracy they are all conspiracies.

Unless you think all these events are planned and carried out by just one person only. If any event, whether it be 911 or any other harmful event taken against people involves the planning and implementation of more than just one person, then it's a conspiracy. It's just that our theories about the details of the conspiracy aren't all correct.

What is your definition of a conspiracy???

a reply to: Astyanax

Theories are theories ... they are false until proven true... that's why they are theories and not facts ..

I do agree though.. most conspiracy theories are absolute nonsense.. but they are theories just the same.. my most frustrating one is chemtrails.. and before that it was the reptilian stuff..