Pope comes out against life sentences.

Your country is your FAMILY and your community is your nearest FAMILY and there shouldn't be anyone not living wonderful lives with good community love and support and real abundance, non slavery programs, homes and land for all, everyone above the poverty level, ghettos transformed, kids with much to do, freedom AND equality, not overburdening or traumatizing others, lots of life coaching for those in stressful situations, and development of real talents, not slave employment. You're supposed to LOVE. Crime would be almost non existent.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: ketsuko

Somewhere I heard something about two wrongs. I can't quite recall it anymore. I guess it is no longer in vogue.

Are you so naive that you think sociopaths are going to stop committing serious crimes when released from prison and welcomed into communities? That isn't what happens. How did you get the notion that it does?

a reply to: Tangerine

Yes I am for some of them, not for all of them, which is why I think a transitional period would be optimal. Honestly, many beneficial individuals have sociopathic traits. Sociopathy is only dangerous when the person suffering from that condition has no virtuous self-governance and no way to prosper within society utilizing traditionally acceptable pathways. I can't just cast someone away because of their previous bad decisions. I honestly think reform is possible and ideal.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Tangerine

Yes I am for some of them, not for all of them, which is why I think a transitional period would be optimal. Honestly, many beneficial individuals have sociopathic traits. Sociopathy is only dangerous when the person suffering from that condition has no virtuous self-governance and no way to prosper within society utilizing traditionally acceptable pathways. I can't just cast someone away because of their previous bad decisions. I honestly think reform is possible and ideal.

You clearly do not know what sociopathy is. I don't know what you're confusing it with but you need to do some research. Sociopaths have no empathy for others. It's totally absent. It's not something that can be developed after the age of two or three. "Virtuous self-governance"? Where do you get this crap?

a reply to: Tangerine

Sociopathy Rehabilitation Article

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Tangerine

Sociopathy Rehabilitation Article

It's big of you to want these predators released so that you can play Russian roulette with the lives of others. I suggest that you volunteer to be an undercover cellmate to several for a few months and then decide whether you want to let them share your home when they get out. I guess you missed the big MAY in the article you posted. And pigs MAY fly. Your interest in this reminds me of the women who write to incarcerated serial killers.

Seriously, why don't you focus on giving a helping hand to people in need who have done nothing to harm others?

a reply to: Tangerine

My sympathy for the worst among us is a sympathy for humankind. We try to say, "Oh no, these are monsters." The Tree of Life is Good, the Qlippothic forces are evil. The Children of Israel are Good, the Goyim and the Erev Rav are Evil. Virtuous people are Good, Vicious people are evil. Empaths are good, Sociopaths are Evil. And all of us unite in saying to some degree or another, "Evil is a lost cause that must be imprisoned, murdered or annihilated."

Well, I tell you as honestly as I can, the reflection you smash in the mirror that you call evil is merely a reflection of your own humanity. So long as you avoid it and refuse to confront it, so long as you diminish it and refuse to claim it as your own it will remain an independent force and for every blow you make against it, it will make a blow against you. You will smash its head and it will bite your heel and both of you will be dragged down into death.

Also, in the future, instead of projecting your own understanding onto others and attacking vehemently the strawman you've constructed, you might want to take the time to listen to them. Otherwise, this discussion already ended a long time ago.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Tangerine

My sympathy for the worst among us is a sympathy for humankind. We try to say, "Oh no, these are monsters." The Tree of Life is Good, the Qlippothic forces are evil. The Children of Israel are Good, the Goyim and the Erev Rav are Evil. Virtuous people are Good, Vicious people are evil. Empaths are good, Sociopaths are Evil. And all of us unite in saying to some degree or another, "Evil is a lost cause that must be imprisoned, murdered or annihilated."

Well, I tell you as honestly as I can, the reflection you smash in the mirror that you call evil is merely a reflection of your own humanity. So long as you avoid it and refuse to confront it, so long as you diminish it and refuse to claim it as your own it will remain an independent force and for every blow you make against it, it will make a blow against you. You will smash its head and it will bite your heel and both of you will be dragged down into death.

Also, in the future, instead of projecting your own understanding onto others and attacking vehemently the strawman you've constructed, you might want to take the time to listen to them. Otherwise, this discussion already ended a long time ago.

When you quote someone, indicate the name of the person you're quoting. If you had any thoughts of your own, this might be interesting. You want to turn lose sociopaths who have already committed serious crimes against people and destroyed lives so that you can get a squishy good feeling that you've done your bit for mankind. Save your silly religious philosophy for someone who has never lived in the real world.

a reply to: Tangerine

Ok.

Bleh. Get rid of the prison system completely and bring back the death penalty for :

Rape
Murder (1st Degree)
Pedophilia

As far as theft goes :

A person pays back 4x the amount of money or property stolen. If they can't pay it back, they're forced to work it off.


If these laws alone were put into place and enforced, imagine how much change we'd see in people's behavior, and how much money we'd save if we didn't have to fund prisons.

Career hard core criminals deserve life sentences and we law abiding people deserve to be free of them. It's their own fault that they are in prison for life. It's sad, of course, but it was their own decisions that put them there.

originally posted by: Unity_99
Your country is your FAMILY and your community is your nearest FAMILY and there shouldn't be anyone not living wonderful lives with good community love and support and real abundance, non slavery programs, homes and land for all, everyone above the poverty level, ghettos transformed, kids with much to do, freedom AND equality, not overburdening or traumatizing others, lots of life coaching for those in stressful situations, and development of real talents, not slave employment. You're supposed to LOVE. Crime would be almost non existent.

Yes and amen. Reconciliation, not retribution, prevention instead of reaction, love instead of hate. These are the characteristics of the kingdom of heaven, and the pope is right on with his direction.

That is the heart of Jesus, which sadly is not the heart of christianity

originally posted by: zardust

originally posted by: Unity_99
Your country is your FAMILY and your community is your nearest FAMILY and there shouldn't be anyone not living wonderful lives with good community love and support and real abundance, non slavery programs, homes and land for all, everyone above the poverty level, ghettos transformed, kids with much to do, freedom AND equality, not overburdening or traumatizing others, lots of life coaching for those in stressful situations, and development of real talents, not slave employment. You're supposed to LOVE. Crime would be almost non existent.

Yes and amen. Reconciliation, not retribution, prevention instead of reaction, love instead of hate. These are the characteristics of the kingdom of heaven, and the pope is right on with his direction.

That is the heart of Jesus, which sadly is not the heart of christianity

That sounds great but it doesn't reflect the reality of our species. Moreover, it certainly doesn't reflect the reality of any church. Jesus is a fictional character, much like Harry Potter. In fact, Harry Potter might be a better model. He never threatened anyone with eternal torture.

Certainly, raising children with love instead of neglect, abuse, and threats would produce better humans. The first step to accomplishing that is to end the nonsense of encouraging everyone to have children. People having children they don't want and don't have the capacity to raise in loving, supportive environments is a recipe for disaster.

a reply to: Tangerine



1. Jesus never threatened eternal torture, that is a made up invention of the mind of this world.

2. Yes you are correct no "church" reflects this position, if you are referring to one of the denominations which are also the invention of the mind of this world.

3. Yes you are correct it does not reflect our species, which is the mind of this world.

Jesus said there is a better way. One of love and forgiveness, one where you put others ahead of yourself. Please stop listening to christianity's version of Jesus. But you think he is fictional, fine, his message is the better way. I happen to believe he was a real dude, but even if not, his message is the better way IMO, which is not of this world.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Tangerine



1. Jesus never threatened eternal torture, that is a made up invention of the mind of this world.

2. Yes you are correct no "church" reflects this position, if you are referring to one of the denominations which are also the invention of the mind of this world.

3. Yes you are correct it does not reflect our species, which is the mind of this world.

Jesus said there is a better way. One of love and forgiveness, one where you put others ahead of yourself. Please stop listening to christianity's version of Jesus. But you think he is fictional, fine, his message is the better way. I happen to believe he was a real dude, but even if not, his message is the better way IMO, which is not of this world.

Better reread the Bible. The Jesus character did mention Hell. Note that I referred to the "Jesus character". There's not an iota of contemporaneous documentation (ie. historical evidence) proving that Jesus ever lived. Not a word was written about him until multiple generations after he allegedly lived. Not a single quote attributed to Jesus was written by anyone who could possibly have heard him say anything. You can believe that Frodo is real but that doesn't make it fact. The same applies to Jesus. Would you expect to be taken seriously if you went around saying, "Frodo said....".?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Nechash

The thing is that a prisoner got into jail for treating someone else as less than human to begin with.

The murderer did not respect that others have the right to their own life and he took it with no thought to them.

The rapist had no respect for the right of the other to the integrity of his or her own body and choices of what to do with it.

The thief has no respect for the notion that the property he steals belongs to another, not him.

All these things are basic human rights a criminal violates. When you violate someone else's basic inalienable right, you are treating them as sub-human, and you are doing it before anyone does a thing to you. As part of your punishment, you lose the rights you respected so little that you arbitrarily took them from others.

Except for the fact that most of the people locked up are for crimes that don't affect other people (such as drug use). Or that they estimate up to 1 in 5 prisoners in the USA could be wrongly convictedfor a crime they did not commit

originally posted by: WP4YT

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Nechash

The thing is that a prisoner got into jail for treating someone else as less than human to begin with.

The murderer did not respect that others have the right to their own life and he took it with no thought to them.

The rapist had no respect for the right of the other to the integrity of his or her own body and choices of what to do with it.

The thief has no respect for the notion that the property he steals belongs to another, not him.

All these things are basic human rights a criminal violates. When you violate someone else's basic inalienable right, you are treating them as sub-human, and you are doing it before anyone does a thing to you. As part of your punishment, you lose the rights you respected so little that you arbitrarily took them from others.

Except for the fact that most of the people locked up are for crimes that don't affect other people (such as drug use). Or that they estimate up to 1 in 5 prisoners in the USA could be wrongly convictedfor a crime they did not commit

People jailed for drug possession don't get life sentences. In the US, at least, you have to have committed a very extreme crime (multiple murders, for example) to get a life sentence. Where did you get the 1 in 5 figure?

a reply to: Tangerine

I'm not going to argue the historicity of Jesus with you. It was within 30 years btw when writings came about of his life.

And no he does not speak of hell, at least not in the way that you are thinking. A very bad translation of the word Gehenna is translated as hell (when Jesus spoke). Gehenna is the valley of Ben Hinnom, which is just outside Jerusalem. Its the place where the jews burned their kids to Molech, and where according to Jeremiah, God said

"They have also built places of worship in a place called Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom so that they can sacrifice their sons and daughters by fire. That is something I never commanded them to do! Indeed, it never even entered my mind to command such a thing!"

Now when the jews rebelled against Rome and were slaughtered en masse the bodies were dumped into Gehenna or Topheth where they were burned.

So you see that "hell" according to Jesus was a valley in Jerusalem. The hell that you are describing and that has been taught by the darkened mind of "the church", since about the 400's, is not in the bible. It is ludicrous when you actually look at the context and understand what the words mean that are used. Frankly "hell" isn't in the bible, except possibly that Jesus was speaking against "hell" in the passages you were referring to.

Along with Jesus' use of Gehenna as a prophetic warning of not acting in the mind of the world (violence), and trying to stage a rebellion against Rome, he was using their language against them. He was mocking them. Only the pharisees believed in an eternal torture pit, but the pharisees brought that heresy back from Babylon with them. They aren't' called the brood of vipers for naught. They were possibly a plant from Babylon to control the minds of the people. The entire 2nd temple cult was considered corrupt and fruitless, and Jesus' constant condemnation of the physical temple, and its leaders should be obvious.

This is all symbolic of the overcoming of the flesh, but its all a faery tale anyway so why are you arguing with me, on a thread about the pope, a leader of a church based around an imaginary character. Why not go argue fan theories about Star Wars?

Again I say, whether you believe Jesus a real guy or not, the message is of the highest order. And that is what the Logos is. Something that goes beyond words, or people, but is the better hope, the way of life.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Tangerine

I'm not going to argue the historicity of Jesus with you. It was within 30 years btw when writings came about of his life.

...

Again I say, whether you believe Jesus a real guy or not, the message is of the highest order. And that is what the Logos is. Something that goes beyond words, or people, but is the better hope, the way of life.

You can make any claim you want but you simply have no evidence with which to back it up. May I remind you that the Bible was written by men?

a reply to: Tangerine

Um, ok, what is your point? Did I ever say the bible wasn't written by men? You are fighting a battle here against a straw man. I am not any of the things you have built in your head of what a christ follower is. So why don't you address what I'm actually saying.

I will say it again. The message of Christ is of the highest order. Whether he is real or not, there is no better message out there.

Love one another
Forgive your enemy, and do good to them