Pope comes out against life sentences.

The Guardian

Personally, I think our Justice system, in the United States anyway, is over the top. Our sentences in most instances are unnecessarily long. We have a system of penitence where people sit around long hours with nothing whatsoever to do. The prisoners have too much control in some facilities leading to drug, rape, gang and violence problems, and private corporations will often get prisoners to work for far less than minimum wage as their only avenue for getting any extended privileges or opportunities for personal growth. Not to mention we use prison for far too many offenses. Whatever happened to fining people for non-violent "crimes?" Make someone pay a fine, give them some community service, but there's no reason to throw a drug user behind bars.

Anyway, I understand for the truly deranged like murderers, rapists, serial arsonists and the like that most people would not be comfortable with them ever getting out of prison. What about self-supporting communities? The prisoners could be set up in their own apartments in a gated town far away from any other cities where they could find work, live a basic life with a general level of freedom, and engage in a simulated society without putting any actually innocent people at risk. Ok, I know I just recommended the creation of a ghetto, but what if we didn't make it terrible like they did in Italy and we only targeted people for relocation who would have either been sent to life in prison or execution under our current system?

We could have plain clothes guards live among the criminals so that way they could never really be sure who was who in their society and they could be tested for a number of years, eventually allowing some of them to return for good behavior if they prove they are capable of living in peace under such a simulated environment. It would probably be costly, but in my mind it would be a humane transitional compromise from prison to society without simply thrusting them back out into the world hoping that they don't do anything terrible again.

a reply to: Nechash

I think sending all prisoners to the middle east and set free is a good idea.

a reply to: Nechash

Well, part of the reason they're in prison in the first place is because they couldn't be trusted in regular society. So why do you think they would do any better in a walled off society?

a reply to: Nechash

He's not the only one, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Seriously though, I don't, and never have, belived the life sentence actually solves anything (aside from cheap labor, nyuk) but some of the crimes we see are just so heinous its hard to imagine what else we could do to peple besides just kill them outright. And that has not worked so well in the past. A lot of prisoners have been exonerated after years behind bars when evidence was produced that they had no involvement in the crimes for which they had been convicted, and that's just f###ed.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

The thing is that I don't believe that prison is so much for the benefit of the prisoners. It's to protect us from them. They're there in principle because they had no respect for the basic rights of others, so they forfeit their own.

Now I know in today's law-heavy society things get complicated, but the basic theory is there.

originally posted by: ArmyOfNobunaga
a reply to: Nechash

I think sending all prisoners to the middle east and set free is a good idea.

LOL! Isn't what happened in Australia?

a reply to: ketsuko

Prison isn't a prize we give to prisoners, but to just say, "Well, you broke a law, you no longer deserve the dignity of being treated like a human being," is not the kind of world I'd like to live in. I know there are moral arguments on both sides, but for me it ultimately comes down to choice, and regardless of what the logic says, I don't want to live in a world that treats anyone like sub-humans. Be a society great enough so that even your prisoners are grateful to be a member of your civilization. Is that ideology so bad?

a reply to: windword

Australia turned out great!

originally posted by: Nechash
The Guardian

Personally, I think our Justice system, in the United States anyway, is over the top. Our sentences in most instances are unnecessarily long. We have a system of penitence where people sit around long hours with nothing whatsoever to do. The prisoners have too much control in some facilities leading to drug, rape, gang and violence problems, and private corporations will often get prisoners to work for far less than minimum wage as their only avenue for getting any extended privileges or opportunities for personal growth. Not to mention we use prison for far too many offenses. Whatever happened to fining people for non-violent "crimes?" Make someone pay a fine, give them some community service, but there's no reason to throw a drug user behind bars.

Anyway, I understand for the truly deranged like murderers, rapists, serial arsonists and the like that most people would not be comfortable with them ever getting out of prison. What about self-supporting communities? The prisoners could be set up in their own apartments in a gated town far away from any other cities where they could find work, live a basic life with a general level of freedom, and engage in a simulated society without putting any actually innocent people at risk. Ok, I know I just recommended the creation of a ghetto, but what if we didn't make it terrible like they did in Italy and we only targeted people for relocation who would have either been sent to life in prison or execution under our current system?

We could have plain clothes guards live among the criminals so that way they could never really be sure who was who in their society and they could be tested for a number of years, eventually allowing some of them to return for good behavior if they prove they are capable of living in peace under such a simulated environment. It would probably be costly, but in my mind it would be a humane transitional compromise from prison to society without simply thrusting them back out into the world hoping that they don't do anything terrible again.

I can understand that the Pope wouldn't want his child molesting friends to actually get the punishment they clearly deserve, the kind of people that don't belong around normal people. I like the life sentence because its akin to the lake of fire, because you will never get out.

a reply to: Nechash

The thing is that a prisoner got into jail for treating someone else as less than human to begin with.

The murderer did not respect that others have the right to their own life and he took it with no thought to them.

The rapist had no respect for the right of the other to the integrity of his or her own body and choices of what to do with it.

The thief has no respect for the notion that the property he steals belongs to another, not him.

All these things are basic human rights a criminal violates. When you violate someone else's basic inalienable right, you are treating them as sub-human, and you are doing it before anyone does a thing to you. As part of your punishment, you lose the rights you respected so little that you arbitrarily took them from others.

a reply to: ketsuko

Somewhere I heard something about two wrongs. I can't quite recall it anymore. I guess it is no longer in vogue.

I think life sentences are appropriate in some cases (never for minors) but conversely mandatory minimums should not be law.

I support the death penalty and personally I'd prefer it to life IMO.

I wonder how he feels about eternal sentences? Seems a bit hypocritical seeing as how eternal hellfire is one of the staples of his organization.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I love your thinking.

The life sentence has taken the place of the death sentence of ages past.
Now they want to transition to short stays in palace resorts.

I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

I agree with the Pope in that, the global community should do more to help the horrible condition that prisoners endure, especially in 3rd world countries.

A lot of these people are accused of political or religious crimes. Sure there are a lot of very bad and guilty people in prisons, but not all are and not all whose crime fits the punishment.

Ever seen "Locked Up Abroad"?

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: ketsuko

Prison isn't a prize we give to prisoners, but to just say, "Well, you broke a law, you no longer deserve the dignity of being treated like a human being," is not the kind of world I'd like to live in. I know there are moral arguments on both sides, but for me it ultimately comes down to choice, and regardless of what the logic says, I don't want to live in a world that treats anyone like sub-humans. Be a society great enough so that even your prisoners are grateful to be a member of your civilization. Is that ideology so bad?

That sounds wonderful but is far from reality. Do you really think turning a bunch of sociopaths lose in a kind and loving society is going to convince them to become anything other than what they are: predators? I suspect you haven't been exposed to many criminals and your thoughts about them are purely theoretical.

a reply to: Tangerine

I lived in Skid Row down by the L.A. Mission for awhile. Other than that, not so much, been to local holding cells for a few days at a time awaiting arraignment, nothing really serious. Skid Row was so much fun. There's a chicken stand there that I used to love to eat at. The people there are on their last leg, but genuine. You never have to wonder what they are thinking.

In other news...legislators abolish hell...



Å99

I only believe prison should be used for serious murders. Not the kind where its battered syndrome or things bordering on manslaughter, but real evil plotted out murders or repeat murders, and massive HIGH LEVEL corruption, such as all our leaders are guilty. Otherwise, healing, perhaps electronic monitoring, life coaching, community support, jobs or above poverty level support, ie disability, resources, friends and being helped. I don't believe in our prison system for 2 year, for 4 years, for 10 years or longer, for most of anything. And alot of our laws need to change, some of them are violations of freedom.