We will have to completely give up Freedom to stop lone wolves

We will have to completely give up Freedom to stop lone wolves. Look you can call every crazy guy that goes on a killing spree a terrorist if you want. They can all convert to Islam before going on their murderous spree but the truth is what you really got is mentally ill people.

If people allow our government and media to scare us into giving up even more freedom for security, you might as well forget freedom of any kind or privacy for that matter.

I rather just live with the low risk of some sick demented mentally ill person killing me some day than give up the life, country and freedoms I was born into.

This thing in Canada is a yawner. Ebola is more dangerous in the US than guys like this =).

Please write your congressmen and Senators and tell them you don't support additional loss of freedom and privacy. Please...

I recently purchased my own security. But living in western New York it wasn't as much "security" as I would like.
I call and I vote but living where I do makes it almost pointless.
This will undoubtedly will be used as a reason to limit more freedoms to keep the sheeple "safe".

a reply to: Xeven

Please write your congressmen and Senators and tell them you don't support additional loss of freedom and privacy. Please...

I think it's too late. We already have cops who could walk in to a war zone with the equipment they have and look right at home. Too many are ready to give up Freedom for "safety". Look at what's happening all over: Schools that want to track students, cameras on every corner, every form of communications bugged and more laws every day that let government tell us what to believe, what to buy, what we can own and what we can do with it.
We're screwed and it will take a total reset to fix it, because those in power will not give it up easily.

Extract from the statement of Obama on ISIL :

Still, we continue to face a terrorist threat. We can’t erase every trace of evil from the world, and small groups of killers have the capacity to do great harm. That was the case before 9/11, and that remains true today. And that’s why we must remain vigilant as threats emerge. At this moment, the greatest threats come from the Middle East and North Africa, where radical groups exploit grievances for their own gain. And one of those groups is ISIL -- which calls itself the “Islamic State.”

Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not “Islamic.” No religion condones the killing of innocents. And the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state. It was formerly al Qaeda’s affiliate in Iraq, and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria’s civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government, nor by the people it subjugates. ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.


Source : WhiteHouse

There will never be any such thing as 100%.
No 100% safe
No 100% free
No 100% accurate
...

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

I agree Islam itself is not the problem. The problem comes from countries that include Islam in their constitution and law. It comes from countries where they have very little real education systems and Islam is the primary education. Countries where peace and tolerance are not part of the curriculum. Countries that don't have education at all where Religion is the only education (brain wash) If there were countries that taught only the Old Testament we would have additional killers out there coming from that faith.

Christ words eventually sank into Christians and they became peaceful. Majority of them anyway and the preaching became about peace and forgiveness. Not punishment and death.

Ultimately those from the civilized world that follow ISIS or any terrorist are weak minded, mentally ill, probably lack any power or wealth in their lives.

Rather than lose more freedoms we should have better education systems and probably ways to identify mentally ill people and get them help without giving up freedom of course.

... SAID THE LONE WOLF!

originally posted by: incoserv
... SAID THE LONE WOLF!

I suppose lone wolves would prefer to have more privacy and freedoms so they could sneak easier and do what ever damage they are intent on doing, but I don't think they are intelligent enough to actually attempt to change political thinking in a forum such as these. Not to mention it would take a life time of threads to change anyone mindset lol. It also kind of goes against the whole ISIS philosophy to promote more freedom .

As for me...I just don't like the idea that everything I type in a computer, say in phone, watch on TV or read on the internet is being monitored and possibly profiling me in some manner.

Sure the law enforcement and powers that be currently that can use this information are on my side and protecting me but who is to say someone unscrupulous with access like Snowden had wont sell of give this information to corporations, enemy governments or political parties to use against us in some manner? Who is to say the powers that be might change one day to people with bad motives?

a reply to: Xeven

We can probably all agree that, whatever next terror attack may happen, this should not be the justification for another 'patriot act'.
No I'm not an American citizen but I have the feeling some politics are more likely to come up with such a plan than others.

Speaking of Christian words, Jesus was way more often described riding a donkey than sitting on top of an elephant.

a reply to: Xeven

Luckily, my congressman is Thomas Massie, so I'm good on that. Plus, I have Rand Paul. Mitch McConnell can suck a lemon, but I'm certainly not voting for Grimes over him...I wanted Matt Bevin.

Anyhoo, I disagree that we will "have to" give up freedom. If more people were trained CCDWers, this would not be nearly the problem that it is now, IMO. I'm not saying it wouldn't be prevented altogether, but I think some of the subsequent deaths after the initial attack would decrease dramatically. Think about it--both the dude that ran into the White House and this shooter in Parliament were neutralized one way or another by someone who was off-duty at the time, meaning that on-duty, armed individuals meant nothing, therefore spotlighting the need for civilians properly trained to handle weapons to be allowed to carry at will.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

No politician in their right mind would even think about any of that during an election season. Of course, after the election, it's fair game, but since politicians in America are perpetually running for office, and there's a presidential election coming with no incumbent, I doubt they'd approach it then, either.

But I've seen dumber things happen in Washington, D.C., so who knows.

people don't mind having their freedoms taken away from them as long as we can complain about it on the internet...
George carlin, famous comedian/social commentator said in one of his standups that americans have been bought off by "stuff" distracted by technology and stuff like that.

and that's really it.
We have all the freedom in the world: apple, microsoft android kfc, mcdonalds, burger king sony, samsung, facebook, twitter , fiat, ford, mercedes...

Is this an our religion is better than their religion thread?


Assertions that "impoverished" countries are crazy because their people attack wealthy countries that bomb the crap out of them from 20,000 feet… is crazy.

a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

George carlin, famous comedian/social commentator said in one of his stand ups that americans have been bought off by "stuff" distracted by technology and stuff like that.

Take it away, Sir George…

a reply to: Xeven

I don't have the answer but I would like to propose a compromise.

Everyone keeps saying the NSA took away Freedom. What can't you do today that was a right taken away by the NSA?

When we speak of the right to bear arms, or any of the bill of rights we are talking about Freedom. For the bill of rights a man should be willing to fight.

But we are not taking about freedom, we are talking about privacy. I understand that the NSA is infringing on the 4th amendment, but let us look at the fact.

The fact, every electric communication can and likely will be recorded by someone.

It might be better to surrender our privacy and allow the recording. Focus rather on laws pertaining to the use of the information. Like requiring a warrant to view someone's private file and use it against them.

The world is changing, and with the communication age we might have to give up a little privacy to ensure the world is safer.

But we absolutely must not give up our freedoms.

If the government is monitoring everything I do, I have given up privacy not freedom. We were never free to break the law, but we had the privacy to do so. The only freedom we might be loosing by giving up some privacy is the freedom to break the law, without getting caught.

This would be a huge deterrent to lawbreakers, sure we would loose some privacy, or rather simply allow them to continue to do what they are already doing. With a system that is designed by the people and for the people we could keep our freedoms and gain a legitimate tool to keep the world safer.

If we had true humanitarians in office we may have even given this privacy away for security, since the intelligent one's know even if were not recording ourselves some other nation is.

The biggest problem is the government keeps lying to the people. No government for the people should lie to the people about anything.

With all that I still conclude, everyone in office who supported the current NSA should be impeached for violating the 4th amendment of evey American Citizen who is not considered a terrorist.

Our representatives broke the law, the 4th amendment. I don't care what the supreme court said, they are appointed by presidents and they represent the president.

The Supreme court continues to prove they no longer support the American people, but rather the same interest of our president. They need to be removed from their positions as well.

We are a government of the people and by the people. And the people, not a rogue government, will be the one's who decide when and if we give up privacy for security.

But we will never give up our freedoms to be safe. I don't own a gun, I don't want a gun, nor do I believe I could discharge a gun to save my own life. But I will not allow the government to take away my ability if at some point I change my mind.

The citizens of this country are the military if someone has ideas of a ground invasion of the US, I for one want my troops armed.

a reply to: Xeven

Mentally ill people are a product which can be produced regularly if you understand how to isolate and destroy someone through passive methodology. Our government has been doing psychological studies of an extremely nefarious nature since at least WWII, what makes us think they aren't using this against the people? We are to believe that in the 70s there was just this sudden spike of serial killers and then, *poof* it ended just as rapidly as it began, and now there's this sudden spike in mass murderers? People are not this evil to one another if integrated into a society which is mutually beneficial to them.

1). If it is unintentional, we can solve this problem by rectifying our society.

2). If it is intentional, we can solve this problem by rectifying our government and holding them accountable.

In either case, society and government will have to change together for a truly prosperous civilization to emerge.

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Xeven

I don't have the answer but I would like to propose a compromise.

Everyone keeps saying the NSA took away Freedom. What can't you do today that was a right taken away by the NSA?

When we speak of the right to bear arms, or any of the bill of rights we are talking about Freedom. For the bill of rights a man should be willing to fight.

But we are not taking about freedom, we are talking about privacy. I understand that the NSA is infringing on the 4th amendment, but let us look at the fact.

The fact, every electric communication can and likely will be recorded by someone.

It might be better to surrender our privacy and allow the recording. Focus rather on laws pertaining to the use of the information. Like requiring a warrant to view someone's private file and use it against them.

The world is changing, and with the communication age we might have to give up a little privacy to ensure the world is safer.

But we absolutely must not give up our freedoms.

I wholeheartedly agree. Its less about freedoms than it is about privacy. And...to the extent that it is about privacy, I hypothesize that going forward, its going to be a non-issue. Everyone under the age of 30 has grown up in the bright lights of public scrutiny...they embrace it...on Facebook. They are self-publishing the most intimate details of their personal lives on Facebook; they self-publish their every opinion and belief on Twitter. They've grown up under the eye of ubiquitous surveillance cameras in the schools, the play ground, the parking lots, ATM's, Super Markets, Walmart parking lots, etc. They've grown up with the NSA monitoring their cell phone conversations looking for key words; they've grown up with tracking APs on their cell phones. And now of course, there's cameras on the city busses, trains, and highways that track everyone's movements through the city scape. Now they're navigating their daily lives surrounded by people wearing Google glass and GoPro cameras and all done in light of face recognition technology. It was recently reported in our local newspaper that the County Clerk has announced that those wishing to purchase the names and addresses of those who "Early Vote" can do so for the fee of $18.00 a day of early voting. So now the County sells voters i.d. and address information to...anyone from marketeers to rabid political operatives intent on harassing voters they believe are against them.

So, for all practical purposes, the age of privacy is over. Those who never had it don't care; they don't know what they're missing, what they've given up...until its too late.

The era of "The Machine" has only just begun.

a reply to: Xeven

That's a pretty good take that I have never stopped and thought about... I have for 30 minutes now, and I think to absolutely stop lone wolves we will in deed have to strip nearly all freedom.


Pretty deep post imo... deeper than at first glance.


Thanks.