Musician arrested after officer reads law allowing him to play in subway legally.

One of NYPD's finest arrests a man for playing in the subway after he recites the law word for word that allows him to perform for donations.

NY Statute? submitted by user ananomaly (I put the question mark there b/c I just don't under legalese, I'm sorry)

1050.6 Section C seems like it says it is permitted
Except as expressly permitted in this subdivision, no person shall engage in any nontransit uses upon any facility or conveyance. Nontransit uses are noncommercial activities that are not directly related to the use of a facility or conveyance for transportation. The following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority, provided they do not impede transit activities and they are conducted in accordance with these rules: public speaking; campaigning; leafletting or distribution of written noncommercial materials; activities intended to encourage and facilitate voter registration; artistic performances, including the acceptance of donations; solicitation for religious or political causes; solicitation for charities that: (1) have been licensed for any public solicitation within the preceding 12 months by the Commissioner of Social Services of the City of New York under section 21-111 of the Administrative Code of the City of New York or any successor provision; (2) are duly registered as charitable organizations with the Attorney General of New York under section 172 of the New York Executive Law or any successor provision; or, (3) are exempt from Federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal Revenue Code or any successor provision. Solicitors for such charities shall provide, upon request, evidence that such charity meets one of the preceding qualifications.

Lin k of statute

Source

Video is only 8 minutes long, and there was no real reason than this other than "ego". If you watch the video the cop doesn't even bother to arrest the guy (and even says he isn't) UNTIL ppl start clapping & being happy for "freedom". (And we can't have that shiite now can we?) Waits for an apparent non-uniformed officer for backup till arrest is made.

Personally? (And I'm sure I'll catch hell for this) If you live in NY in the first place, knowing how the cops are & the draconian anti-constitutional gun laws that exist there, it's kinda your own fault. That's how I see it, sorry.

]no person shall engage in any nontransit uses upon any facility or conveyance. artistic performances



Just playing devil's advocate...and he wasn't going to arrest him...not for the clapping but because he said you are leaving and the guy responded i am not leaving...come on man...he was told to leave he could have left and filed a complaint

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock

originally posted by: schadenfreude

no person shall engage in any nontransit uses upon any facility or conveyance. artistic performances

Just playing devil's advocate...and he wasn't going to arrest him...not for the clapping but because he said you are leaving and the guy responded i am not leaving...come on man...he was told to leave he could have left and filed a complaint

Why does he have to follow an unlawful order?
Why can't cop just follow the law?
Why can't cop UNDERSTAND the law?

It would seem one should know the law if they're gonna enforce it, otherwise ppl can just make stupid stuff up all day.
The only thing missing from this video is "officer safety". (Which is why I think the guy holding the cam spanned around so ppl would know that claim was/is bs.

Instead of arresting him how about they arrest the dips who blast their music in the subway cars? It's not permitted they're not performers they're just children who think the world wants to hear the latest Eminem or Katy Perry song.

They'd arrest me if I blasted this on the subway so why not the garbage they pump out now?

a reply to: schadenfreude

Well from what I read in the statute....its going to be pretty hard to argue....it says not allowed for "artistic purposes"....sure we can argue all day long on what artistic purposes are as...the law is always written like this to confuse....

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy because the officer calmly said get your things and go....the guy could have left and filed a complaint...instead he said "no i'm not going". You don't give an officer much choice then. So the law is gray...not black and white but him refusing to leave....I can't have sympathy for him.

On a side note...i think the law is abused every day and certainly have no sympathy for the police as well but being objective on this one id say cops 1 other guy 0.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Not trolling, serious question. WHEN did it become ok to get assaulted by cops & then AFTER the fact sue? Or file a complaint, etc? Instead of not allowing the offense, crime, whatever to happen in the first place?

When did that become "ok"?

I think that's what grinds most ppl's gears that are awake, the ones that aint almost always side with the cops and never get it.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: schadenfreude

Well from what I read in the statute....its going to be pretty hard to argue....it says not allowed for "artistic purposes"....sure we can argue all day long on what artistic purposes are as...the law is always written like this to confuse....

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy because the officer calmly said get your things and go....the guy could have left and filed a complaint...instead he said "no i'm not going". You don't give an officer much choice then. So the law is gray...not black and white but him refusing to leave....I can't have sympathy for him.

On a side note...i think the law is abused every day and certainly have no sympathy for the police as well but being objective on this one id say cops 1 other guy 0.

Read it again..

The following nontransit uses are

permitted

by the Authority, provided they do not impede transit activities and they are conducted in accordance with these rules: public speaking; campaigning; leafletting or distribution of written noncommercial materials; activities intended to encourage and facilitate voter registration;

artistic performances

I didn't set him impeding transit activities either..

a reply to: schadenfreude

We are arguing two different points...you are saying he is playing legally....I am saying in the statue it specifically says you can't play there ....read the statute you posted...it says no artistic performances.

I don't see how you think he is being assaulted..he is breaking the ordinance which is actually nothing more than a city ordinance...he would have had a city ticket...not even a state arrest. But if the officer tells you to leave and you don't then that is obstructing a peace officer...which is a state charge. That is why he was arrested.

Please convince me with the statute above that he was playing legally....

There are videos that have been posted where I have felt the officer was in the wrong....lets say in theory an officer is wrong...and you know 100% for sure...not just 90%...100% what should the civilian be allowed to do? Im just curious what you think.

You can't tell me with the statute written above that you are 100% sure this guy was playing legally in the subway.

a reply to: schadenfreude

What's with the chick that walks right in front of the camera? 'Hey, I see you filming that situation over there, let me just go stand in front of you after walking 20 feet.' Goodness. It does appear he should be allowed to play there, unless that particular subdivision doesn't allow it or he's inconveniencing people, which it doesn't appear he was with being out of the way. No idea whether he was in one of these subdivisions or not. The rule isn't very clear on what is considered an obstruction of traffic though, so it's highly open to interpretation on both sides...

If you listen carefully, he actually gives the officer permission to arrest him at 02:23. This is why reserving the right to be silent is always a good idea. The officer gave him plenty of opportunities to leave as well, which I think should be factored into this. If you're going to inconvenience him, he's going to inconvenience you with a bs arrest.

Adversely though, this was a pretty stupid decision on the officers part to pick on some random guy in the subway and make such a scene about it, also wasting additional resources on it.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

i like how you left out the other part lol...you read it again....it says what is permitted "By The Authority"...get a permit...it also says not to impede...obviously people were gathered watching him...is there any potential they impeded ? Any at all...? Do you know for a fact one way or the other?

Except as expressly permitted in this subdivision, no person shall engage in any nontransit uses upon any facility or conveyance

it then goes to explain what those are...

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Asked & answered by solo, but to be as clear as possible.
The following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority, provided they do not impede transit activities and they are conducted in accordance with these rules: public speaking; campaigning; leafletting or distribution of written noncommercial materials; activities intended to encourage and facilitate voter registration; artistic performances, including the acceptance of donations;

On a sidenote, putting the disclaimer that I don't read legalese, means I don't read legalese. (It gives me a headache) So asking me to prove something vis a vis legalese after disclaiming that, is kinda rude imo.

I don't understand how this can be MORE OBVIOUS, yet ppl need it explained to them anyway.

Seriously? Is it me, someone throw me a bone here.

a reply to: Septimus

You can't give someone permission to do something illegal. I've had a headache so bad I've joked to ppl to bullet in my head cause it hurts so much. Now if someone did that, just b/c I gave them permission doesn't mean they get a get out of jail free card cause I told them to.

a reply to: schadenfreude

Seems to me that the policeman didn't understand what he read. The policeman also failed to site the reason the artist was being ejected (issued notice of violation).

Dumb cop.

a reply to: schadenfreude

"by the authority" that tells me 2 things when i read it...one you need permission a permit...and lets say im wrong...that authority can revoke it at any time...which they did.

the guy should have left then challenged what happened.

I remember a case of a man panhandling by where I used to live...they wanted to arrest him only to find out the city ordinance allowed him to stand on a certain part of the curb...if he went outside that part to panhandle he could be arrested....he sat their panhandling in the right spot while others were getting arrested.

And once again the statute states if it impeded any activity. I don't know if it impeded or not for a fact....it also doesn't define artistic performance...we could probably assume playing the guitar is an artistic performance...but we know nothing else...were his songs vulgar...was he impeded the regular daily flow...

This is a right and wrong way to fight this stuff...he did it the wrong way. Almost every none common law is written with confusion for this reason...then they fight it and it works its way up the supreme court til they decide what is truly right and wrong by their bull# standards.

Once again he could have left and sued....but you claim he was arrested because everyone clapped...which is bull#...he was arrested because he refused to leave.

Honestly...im so tired of both sides. I left America...most of my adult life has been in foreign countries because I think America is a # hole. Yet you all come on here daily arguing about this and that...#ing do something about it then...start a revolution...stand up to them...do what you must but not a damn thing has changed. You can leave the country like me, do something about it, ignore it...or go online and post about every youtube video you find.

Ive said before...my services will go to the highest bidder

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

How is it bs that he was arrested b/c ppl were clapping when the cop was leaving UNTIL ppl started clapping & hollering?

Did we watch the same video?

Its egotripping, plain & simple.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Most of us won't do a thing. When Americans revolt you will know it was orchestrated. We're kept distracted, tired, divided. We're gullible, easily molded and herded like sheep. Despite seeing corruption, oppression and tyranny, along with history repeating itself, most of us figure as long as the power is on and as long as there's money in the bank for fast food, there's no need to revolt.

Complacent, full of it and on lists up to their eyeballs.

(1) have been licensed for any public solicitation within the preceding 12 months by the Commissioner of Social Services of the City of New York under section 21-111 of the Administrative Code of the City of New York or any successor provision;

You have to keep reading.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I've heard this alot (change it then, kick # up) & for the most part in agreement, however...(and I've asked this repeatedly)

HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT THIS? Specifically.

When the fuzz have military weapons, and the DA & judges are just as bad as the cops & even if you managed to do something, after death you would be labeled a terrorist by the media. (So even your intent that you gave your life for would be besmirched) exactly HOW are we supposed to solve this #?

Can you answer that w/o violating the TOS?

a reply to: schadenfreude

The cop wasn't leaving. He was waiting for backup. That's why he got on the radio.