Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

When something provides validation to beliefs that not only define you to the world, they define you to yourself it's really, REALLY hard to ignore them and agree to anything that challenges them.

We get that. Some of us have been there before, most all of us have in one way or another.

The facts still remain and the truth will still stare at you from the other side, I think the genuinely defining moment for anyone involved in this phenom is how they react to those facts and that truth staring back at them.

I've had to change my mind about this stuff several times, some of them were difficult because I was certain my beliefs were CORRECT and infallible. They weren't.

The old saying that the first thing one should do with their favorite theory is try disprove it rings truer today than it did 100+ years ago when it was first postulated.

That's what separates the honest agents from the hucksters in my opinion.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Wolfenz

I'm not sure exactly where you were going with all of that, but that was a lot of cool stuff you shared. Thank You!

Welcome !

if your referring about the Pulp Science Fiction Illustrations of what ive Posted

I was just Showing the few Examples of Futurism becoming Reality

Electric Current/Lazar Force Field and a look through a Large Window Pane at the Earth and moon from Space.

From the Early 1930s, and Where you need to look is at The Past in the INFORMATION. as Most of Early Pioneer Pulp Science Fiction Writers Were Engineers or Scientist , or have the Collage Degrees in those Fields , or a Connection & Friendship with Government Officials.. Great Storys to Inspire Young Minds,, Like what Happened to Robert Goddard and Wernher Von Braun from Jules Verne: From Earth to the Moon Book and we all know where That Science Fiction Book Lead to ! a Reality , Just a game Change with the Cannon. Goddard and Braun Changed that to Fuel and Rocketry putting a Capsule under its Own Power ! and If you ever read some of the Old Pulp Science Fiction of the Late 20s throughout the Late 1940s.. You will see what they have envisioned some are Accurate, Some are Not.

look a this Amazing Stories Cover from 1929

Pretty Much Accurate in the Suit and gloves and Helmet except for the Covering on the Glass Dome. Repairing the Ship with Welding lances ? Tho the Life Support Tank is Off Key LOL.. but the Illustrator has the Thickness of the Glass and Design of the Portals Right and that was in 1929....


Welding in Space
www.newton.dep.anl.gov...

1929 to 1969 40 Years

Welding in Space

Welding in space was first accomplished on Oct. 16, 1969, aboard the spacecraft Soyuz 6. Cosmonauts V. N. Kubasov and G. S. Shonin used the Vulkan automatic welding equipment build at the E. O. Paton Institute of Electric Welding.

encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...

Similar !

Repairing the Hubblescope..

originally posted by: Springer
I've had to change my mind about this stuff several times, some of them were difficult because I was certain my beliefs were CORRECT and infallible. They weren't.

Ditto.

The old saying that the first thing one should do with their favorite theory is try disprove it rings truer today than it did 100+ years ago when it was first postulated.

That's what separates the honest agents from the hucksters in my opinion.

Ain't that exhilarating? Knowing that you're taking precaution against following blind alleys and 'could be's?" Doing your personal best to avoid spinning your wheels and just maybe, by that, getting a chance to latch onto something meaty?

So many folk have posted such knowledge and wisdom here. They should be in a collection alone to be read consecutively.

originally posted by: FireMoon
"Close Encounters" was very much Spielberg's baby, probably what is of even greater interest is that, when it came to the TV series "Taken" there had been, in the intervening decades a shift in what Spielberg's agenda seemed to be. From extraterrestrial to inter-dimensional with a huge dose of the manipulation of what we believe to be "real". in taken the human alien hybrid has the ability to project a vast UFO crashing into the temporary military installation with all those witnessing it, totally convinced it is really happening. In fact "Taken" shows both "real technology" and "mind projections".

Taken also moves the "alien agenda" from peaceful exploration and sharing contact with humans, to a totally unknown intelligence that seems determined to move humanity on another step and begs the question, are we humans merely their experiment anyway?

The most one can say about Spielberg with any real certainty is that, such luminaries as Hyneck, Vallee etc seem to view him as a "safe pair of hands" in imparting to the public at large, current thoughts at a given time, by those who one can claim really know their stuff, about UFOs .

On the other hand, Britain's Nigel Kneale can said to be almost the polar opposite of Spielberg. Kneale, at least in public, claimed he didn't believe a single word of what he wrote and had a pretty dim view of the supernatural as a whole. Be that as it may, Kneale almost single handedly brought into the mass consciousness many concepts and ideas that are today, pedaled as "fact". Humans as an artificial race created by Aliens, The Executive being insidiously infiltrated and taken over in order to turn our world into one fit for the Alien masters to take over and live on.

How could you possibly know that Spielberg has an agenda beyond making an entertaining and highly successful film? I believe that at the time Close Encounters was made, Spielberg didn't have the money and power to decide whether or not the film got financing. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think so.

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: FireMoon

Alex Jones breakdown on how the Government intelligence services work to destroy the whistle blowers courtesy of the Edward Snowden leaks.....the 4 D's.

#1 DENY
#2 DISRUPT
#3 DEGRADE
#4 DECEIVE

The 4 D's should be the standard A.T.S. shill,sock puppet,debunker default test.

www.youtube.com...
Go into about the 30 minute mark on the above video and you will see how effective these tactics are.

Alex Jones wow the true definition of a loud mouth, he thinks if he constantly shouts he is telling the truth that guy wouldn't know what a fact was if it was tied to the front of a truck and he was knocked down with it!

originally posted by: OrionsGem
This thread can be summed up in just a few words in my opinion...it boils down to this:

If you scream REAL show us the PROOF!

If you scream HOAX show us the PROOF!

If you don't know and you are speculating DON'T STATE YOUR OPINIONS AS FACT!

I think things would go allot smoother if we followed these guidelines.

OG

Finally a post from you with which I can 100% agree.

a reply to: wmd_2008

Yeah he may be a loud mouth but his whole show is backed up facts.
That's a really ironic accusation.
It actually epitomizes the 4 D's.
Watch the youtube video i posted and find out the facts rather than attempting character assassination.

originally posted by: OrionsGem

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: OrionsGem

You know guys..contrary to what many of you believe of me, I am actually very objective and open to all views on this subject

I can vouch for you.

Why thank you kindly=)

OG

I take it back. I don't see anything remotely objective

originally posted by: OrionsGem
This thread can be summed up in just a few words in my opinion...it boils down to this:

If you scream REAL show us the PROOF!

If you scream HOAX show us the PROOF!

If you don't know and you are speculating DON'T STATE YOUR OPINIONS AS FACT!

I think things would go allot smoother if we followed these guidelines.

OG

I'll leave the star for two reasons:

1. In the hopes you will reread and adhere to your own guidelines

2. I don't know how to revoke a star.

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Many of the cases imo, especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien. Honestly it seems like willful ignorance to deny it. But thats ok, it is what it is. Its not like we could do anything about them either way.


www.abovetopsecret.com... - Belgian wave, multiple sitings with military ultimately drawn in
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Westfall UFO case, objects viewed in broad daylight by 200+ students
www.abovetopsecret.com... - JAL 1628 , extended ufo encounter with radar verification.
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Trumball co ufo chase, multiple police officers.

Closer than "aliens are conspiring with our government when not in firefights with us" and certainly respectable cases to peruse and come to one's own conclusions.

However, you kind of ruin the impact when you say "especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien."

Could be, but it shows a closed and narrow viewpoint to say "clearly alien."

I stand by that 100%, as I said, it just depends on how much evidence one needs and what kind of evidence one is willing to consider. The greeks surmised many years before Columbus that the earth was round and their calculations were really close, but how sure were they, would they bet the farm on it? Different people are going to take different levels of evidence to believe.

For example, some people are not willing to accept testimony at all, photos or bust. Thats fine, whatever works for them, however imo, if you really study those cases and put it all together, aliens it is. Ive only looked in the phenomena the last couple of years, and used to think it was impossible given the distances involved( and maybe I am too closed minded about worm holes, time travel, and parallel dimensions because I really dont consider those real possibilities!), but eventually the possibility of a mundane explanation just doesnt make sense.

The cheap way out imo, is to say we just dont know what it is. If it isnt us(human beings born on earth) creating these ufos, then its aliens, maybe oversimplified for some, but just how I see it.

One thing you didnt do in your reply is give some alternative explanations to those cases, I dont expect a lengthy long drawn out explanation, but would be interested to know what you would consider as possible alternatives that would explain what was witnessed.

Do you really think any govt had a top secret anti-gravity disc that accidentally got away from them onto a school campus in broad daylight(Westall UFO 1966)?

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Columbus never surmised the earth was round, he already knew that...

New member, Busky just posted the following as their very first ATS post in OrionGem's Area 51 Scientist's Deathbed Show & Tell!

Especially since I'm following and participating in that thread it made a lot of sense, but even standalone I thought it would be a great addition here too. Busky sounds like a keeper so far.

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster. Just wanted to get my quick two cents in here. I believe in the UFO phenomenon and have been fascinated with it most of my life (the movie/book "Contact" really got me interested).

Anyways, this thread showed a lot of promise for good debate, but like most threads I have read, turned into each side of belief just constantly bashing the other without any real good ideas to support either side. For those that believe what Boyd has to say, along with his pictures, I think you are being ignorant to that fact that this could very easily be a hoax. As for the side that doesn't believe Boyd, I still do think there are some issues to debate here, such as the blinking eyes, the body types not matching up, the apparent credibility of the man's credentials, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I support the fact that this guy is telling the truth, I just think each side has evidence to support their belief. Aren't we all here for debate on the topic anyway? Let's quit the name calling and try to find answers. Thanks!

originally posted by: 111DPKING111

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Many of the cases imo, especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien. Honestly it seems like willful ignorance to deny it. But thats ok, it is what it is. Its not like we could do anything about them either way.


www.abovetopsecret.com... - Belgian wave, multiple sitings with military ultimately drawn in
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Westfall UFO case, objects viewed in broad daylight by 200+ students
www.abovetopsecret.com... - JAL 1628 , extended ufo encounter with radar verification.
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Trumball co ufo chase, multiple police officers.

Closer than "aliens are conspiring with our government when not in firefights with us" and certainly respectable cases to peruse and come to one's own conclusions.

However, you kind of ruin the impact when you say "especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien."

Could be, but it shows a closed and narrow viewpoint to say "clearly alien."

Do you really think any govt had a top secret anti-gravity disc that accidentally got away from them onto a school campus in broad daylight(Westall UFO 1966)?

The problem is that we simply don't know.

Due to hoaxers, disinformation, and obfuscation it is very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think debunkers perform an excellent service on ATS in helping identify, and in some cases more or less solve certain UFO cases. For example, the Kumburgaz case in Turkey has pretty much been solved to my satisfaction. Some posters will disagree, but I believe the general consensus is that the UFO was in fact a cruise ship.

I am certainly of the belief that governments do propagate UFO myths to obfuscate and conceal classified information, and I think there is plenty of evidence to show this. I also belief that there are unidentified objects (putting aside all fakes and misidentification) witnessed that may not be government tech, and this is a mystery. Whether these UFOs are extraterrestrial craft, something from another dimension, sentient plasma spheres, demons/angels/Djinn, or something else entirely is anyone's guess.

There are plenty of interesting cases that have never adequately been explained. If they are not able to be identified the $64000 question remains; what the hell are they?

Perhaps this video may illuminate people about how (and why) the government covers up aliens

Originally posted by: Cauliflower
Hynek and Vallee worked for the US government as dis(seminating)information specialists.
I always figured Close Encounters was (also) written to the liking of the aliens?
The official story of the alien exchange hasn't moved much even though we know its a false cover.

Jacque Vallee never worked for the US government and in fact his theories are the exact opposite of all the stuff put out by "dis(seminating)information specialists"...

At this point I have read all of Vallee's books and as many of his interviews as I have been able to track down. I particularly recommend his, "Forbidden Science 1" and "Forbidden Science 2", which are his personal diaries from the years during which he did the bulk of his research and it is fascinating to see how his conjectures and conclusions evolved and changed during those years.

Re: His relationship with the government - his diaries make it absolutely clear that he wanted no part in joining any department of the government's investigations, as he disagreed with both their methods and their lackadaisical attitudes regarding investigation, research, and treatment of and follow-up with witnesses.

I cannot stress enough, Vallee is a man of highest integrity who states many times in his journals his determination not to collaborate with government agencies in any way related to investigating UFO phenomena.

(He did work with DARPA/ARPA? during the years he was involved in the development of the earliest form of internet communications at Stanford.)

I could go on and on, but will suffice to say that I'm sure ATS' owner Springer will back me up, if anyone is in doubt of my defense of Jacque Vallee, a truly admirable scientist and gentleman to the nth degree!

P.S. As far as the "Close Encounters" movie, in an interview (I believe with "Conspire.com"), Vallee talks of a discussion he had with Spielberg during which Spielberg said that he was in agreement with Vallee's theories that UFO 'phenomena' were inter-dimensional in nature rather than extra-terrestrial, but that he could not reflect that view in the movie, because he had to give the studios/audiences what they 'wanted/expected'...

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: 111DPKING111

Columbus never surmised the earth was round, he already knew that...

But he had the circumference grievously wrong, as the Talavera Commission correctly pointed out. Had he not tripped across America, he would have died.

Aside from knowing the essentially accurate shape an dimensions of Earth, the distance and size of the Moon, the much GREATER distance and size of the Sun, pre-telescope astronomers [Greeks left records, but Mesopotamian, Hindu, and Chinese scholars, and maybe others] had naked eyeball methods to notice the gross angular size of the planets, and other secrets we tend to foolishly think of as 'modern' discoveries.

Pretty much why I don't waste my time in speculative forums.

I'd love to discuss possible/probable -- or concepts of possible/probables.

But, the negative naysayers and "dead in the water" skeptics kill any conversation or discussion of possible/probable.

Killing a thread before it even has any chance of possible/probable discussion - - - just plain old outright SUCKS.

It's pathetic really.

originally posted by: Annee

edit on 24-10-2014 by Tangerine because: accidental duplicate

originally posted by: Annee
Pretty much why I don't waste my time in speculative forums.

I'd love to discuss possible/probable -- or concepts of possible/probables.

But, the negative naysayers and "dead in the water" skeptics kill any conversation or discussion of possible/probable.

Killing a thread before it even has any chance of possible/probable discussion - - - just plain old outright SUCKS.

It's pathetic really.

From from killing this thread, people interested in applying critical reasoning to UFO topics have contributed to this thread and kept it going. Could you make up a couple sample conversations about UFOS of the type that you would like to see?

a reply to: Tangerine

You're not wrong about anything.