jon stewart and bill o'reilly argue about white privelage

a reply to: SlapMonkey

200 yrs ago? Martin Luther King died in the 60's. Maybe you need to find an older white person and ask them about how they came up.

originally posted by: chishuppu
a reply to: SlapMonkey
200 yrs ago? Martin Luther King died in the 60's. Maybe you need to find an older white person and ask them about how they came up.

LOL...calm down, I was referrencing slavery, and giving a generalized date for it. I thought that would have been relatively apparent to people well-versed in American history.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: magicrat
I agree. Jon won because Bill did admit that it's harder for black people than white to be successful.

O'Reilly agreed that race and socio-economic issues are a factor in becoming successful. That's just common sense, but it doesn't only apply to black people.

I'm a white girl who dated a black guy for a year and a half, and I was treated SO MUCH differently when I was with him. In stores, bars, etc.

I really don't care what people think. I've seen it first hand.

That's not white privilege, that's bigotry...which, sadly, depends on where you live as to how much of it you see or experience. But, regardless, bigotry and "white privilege" are substantially different things. I've been many places in my life where I was treated negatively different because I was white--is that "black privilege?"

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
While I don't disagree that slavery and racism in the history of America is a terrible chapter, that doesn't mean that, in current America, it's all the white people's fault that this divide still exists.

I agree, it doesn't mean that at all. But, as you said, the divide does in fact still exist, so while assigning fault or guilt for a problem that began centuries ago may be irrelevant and counter-productive, I think pretending it doesn't exist is pretty unhelpful too. (I'm not saying you're doing that; just saying that that's the other extreme)

White guilt is factual and some try and pretend that racism is over in America, when in reality they know how they really feel and act toward minorities; in fact they may be covering up for their own prejudiced thoughts or actions by trying to deny racism, white privileged and overt bigotry.

I'm a white anglo saxon male and I know full well that I enjoy a privileged place at work, socially and with business opportunities. I make no apologies for my preferred status. It's just American culture.... with artificial rules and domination over others.

a reply to: magicrat

I could intelligently argue, though, that if you don't get to the root of the problem (i.e.: Who is to blame for the ongoing timeline of the issue, since it's a racial, societal problem), it will never get dealt with. Much like our federal government who thinks total revenue it collects in taxes is the reason we're over $17Trillion in debt.

Getting at the root of the issue is absolutely relevant and productive, otherwise the status quo perpetuates beyond any foreseeable horizon.

A mix of both obviously, these is and Isn't white privilege or race privilege or whatever. Depends on the scenario/situation. A generalization doesn't have any sort of application.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I think we agree more than I thought then. I was trying to put it in a way that avoided the language of blame and guilt, since we all have a tendency to react emotionally to that rather than intellectually. I think you've done that very well:

Getting at the root of the issue is absolutely relevant and productive, otherwise the status quo perpetuates beyond any foreseeable horizon.

im going to share an interesting read, this is from Africans how we feel about the caste system.

We have to understand White people! There is a fairly dramatic dilemma for the majority of white people when it comes to fighting racism.

Simply because in the world we live now all white people benefit from racism, and the caste system behind racism is profitable, and quite comfortable for them.

If you are white, you are better treated
If you are white, you get better job, and much faster
If you are white, you travel the world without visa and you are treated better
If you are white, Police won’t harass you or kill you on sight
If you are white, you are looked up as a model even if you have not achieved anything!
If you are white, you are feared and people are forced to smile at you
If you are white, you have a lot of privileges denied to other people from housing to access to capital
if you are white, you really don’t understand why people don’t get what you get so easily!

Who won’t like to enjoy such kind of privileges as a birth right? Why would white people be forced fight to change something that is profitable to them?

In fact, without the pervasive racism in society and the world, they’d lose most of the automatic privileges now associated to their skin color, and more dramatically they would have to compete with 6 billions people on equal basis. Very scary! Not something quite comfortable! Therefore most of white people are not ready for the end of racial caste system current in the world.

I’d say, it’d be easier to ask a billionaire to give up his money to charity than to ask most white people to give up on racism and the ideology behind it.

For a matter of comparison, asking white people to fight racism would be equal to asking men to fight patriarchy.

There are a lot of men who are ready to fight for human rights, but would shy away from fighting patriarchy and the many privileges all men automatically enjoy just because they are born with a dick in a patriarchal society.

Why would men fight to end patriarchy if it would mean for them to clean, wash and contribute to house works like women; be compelled to do more to get what they want, and more dramatically to compete with more people for the privileges they now enjoy from birth.

Like the legendary investor Warren Buffett put it “one of the reasons for my great success was that I was competing with only half of the population. I mean, my sisters are as smart or smarter than I am, and my parents loved them with the same degree of intensity that they loved me, but they had different expectations about them, their teachers had different expectations about them. And just think of the waste that occurred you know for decades and decades and decades.”

Most men instinctively know, recognize, and use the privileges associated with the mere fact of being born a male. They enjoy, profit and love the advantages associated with the caste system patriarchy had forged for centuries which downgrades woman, and award free bonuses to men life long.

Racism is for white people, what patriarchy is for men. Most white people won’t fight against racism, for the same reason most men won’t fight against patriarchy.

Racism is evil but it’s profitable to them, and most people care more about their interests than some human rights.

To survive and prosper, racism is taught by white families to their kids. No one is born racist, kids which become later adults learn the racist ideas and reflex from their families, relatives, and friends who happen to have parents too.

Why don’t we dress and speak like people in the 19th century or 18th century? Because our parents were not dressing or speaking like our fore grandparents.
Racism is an anti-meritocracy system!


For my fellow Africans, please listen to me. Racism is not your problem. You can’t fight it.
Get out of all the movement or association which fight against racism.
Only white people could fight racism.
If they’d stop teaching it their kids, and quit sponsoring it, racism would disappear.

Albert Einstein teaching a physics class at Lincoln University (HBCU in Pennsylvania) in 1946 said: “The separation of the races is not a disease of colored people. It is a disease of white people. I do not intend to be quiet about it.”

When the Black opera singer Marian Anderson was performing in New Haven and denied a hotel room Einstein invited her to stay at his home.

If you have white friends who refuse to talk about racism, or deny it, they are definitely NOT your friends, because they know well racism is pervasive in their community and wide-spread. The truth here would be that your friends are not ready to give up the privileges they enjoy from racism in society.

We have to understand white people, but it’s our rights to deny them the privileges that racism automatically awards them, and make firmly them understand we are all equal for a better world!

a reply to: lostbook

jeez, that ben affleck's really started something..
..hope it doesn't catch on

originally posted by: olaru12
At the university I attended in Texas, I had black friends, Hispanic friends and it was perfectly apparent to me that as a WASP; I was treated much differently than my friends when we were in a place of business, like a restaurant or convenience store. We never let the black guy drive because that was just asking to get pulled over.

White privileged....damn right!

The common defactor today with privilege is MONEY , those who have it and those that don't . Color has very little to do with it.

That's BS...

Please tell me how a police officer can tell the race of a person they are fallowing?

a reply to: guitarplayer

They use these high tech gadgets called "eyes"...

a reply to: JaxonRoberts

so your telling me you can tell the race the gender of a person in the car in front of you?

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: olaru12
At the university I attended in Texas, I had black friends, Hispanic friends and it was perfectly apparent to me that as a WASP; I was treated much differently than my friends when we were in a place of business, like a restaurant or convenience store. We never let the black guy drive because that was just asking to get pulled over.

White privileged....damn right!

The common defactor today with privilege is MONEY , those who have it and those that don't . Color has very little to do with it.

That's BS...

Please tell me how a police officer can tell the race of a person they are fallowing?

Think about it...

Who said anything about following?

They may watch you drive by, see who's driving, pull out and light you up.

Or Perhaps be driving the opposite direction and make a u turn when they see who in the drivers seat.

Why are you grasping at straws..... to prove what?

a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

privilege is something that is often poorly explained in the internet debates I've seen on here and other sites.

basically it's a subconscious cultural trait. One that affects how one acts towards you and how you act towards others.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: olaru12
At the university I attended in Texas, I had black friends, Hispanic friends and it was perfectly apparent to me that as a WASP; I was treated much differently than my friends when we were in a place of business, like a restaurant or convenience store. We never let the black guy drive because that was just asking to get pulled over.

White privileged....damn right!

The common defactor today with privilege is MONEY , those who have it and those that don't . Color has very little to do with it.

That's BS...

Please tell me how a police officer can tell the race of a person they are fallowing?

Think about it...

Who said anything about following?

They may watch you drive by, see who's driving, pull out and light you up.

Or Perhaps be driving the opposite direction and make a u turn when they see who in the drivers seat.

Why are you grasping at straws..... to prove what?

It's a legend just like super bowl Sunday is the most violent day of the year for women. What you sated may happen during the day if a police man is on the proper of the road to see across the street and into your car how would that happen at night? Can you look into your rear view mirror at night and tell the race of the person behind you or the race of the person in front of you? I doubt it very much.

I'm not sure if you could call that an official debate or anything but I'd say if you must pick a winner it would be Jon Stewart. One reason for that is because Bill admitted blacks have a harder time climbing the social-economic ladder even today. This was backed up even more with the example of the neighborhood Bill grew up in that didn't allow blacks to live there. Even though that may have changed now the point remains the same and it's a perfect example.

I think a few of you don't really understand the meaning of "White privilege" though either. It's not something anyone is being blamed for or something white people need feel guilty about. It's not like you have to participate in Racism or even benefit from it to understand the reality of it. It's just a societal thing where race plays a part especially in American society.

It's also not about each individuals experience either. Just because you're white and got mistreated in a black neighborhood doesn't reverse anything. Just because you're white also doesn't mean that you always benefit from being white either. It's a wide ranging and generalized effect throughout this society that's all.

a reply to: olaru12

That's pretty funny because I had a black guy driving our truck for work for two years and never once did we get pulled over.

Now a Mexican man has been driving our truck for the last year and he has never once been pulled over.

The truck doesn't display the company name on it.

I think you were displaying racism due to your fear of the black guy getting you pulled.

We never let the black guy drive because that was just asking to get pulled over.

a reply to: interupt42

I agree dude.. It was a stupid argument... We are all born into the crap shoot.... I was born with a mother that left me..

I think I did ok..

Try living from birth knowing your mom did not want you..

Talk about cry babies....

You can only imagine what I think of this bullcrap, stop making excuses and work hard!

Nothing is free in life...

I agree with Bill.. Its old fashion work hard for your money...