Jehovah's Witnesses: Behind Their Lies

a reply to: Murgatroid

History is strewn with cults who twist Scriptures and use them as bait for false credibility.

Since they do teach people not to lie steal cheat murder...why are they a problem any more than any other of the religions? One in my town has taken in so much money they keep building a bigger building, the preacher has built himself a mansion nearby with and electric gate and we don't have places like that here...they bought buses, they make the $$ but no one runs down their church which is built solely on the one guys magnetism.

As far as the bible i think many people would never have peaked inside in their lives if it were not for JW or Mormons coming to their home.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
One of the oddities of the "Jehovah's Witnesses" is that they will tell you they don't believe in God, they believe in Jehovah. I have always scratched my head at this because I always thought God and Jehovah were one in the same. Apparently, at least according to "Witnesses," they are not. Ask them for yourself. Ask them if they believe in God. See what they tell you. It may surprise you. It did me.

You clearly misunderstood, they were simply telling you that God is a title for many many many Gods...they obey and follow only the one. They do not tell you he is not a God. The jews would tell you much the same.

I know one thing I do not go knocking on there door ...I don't want them knocking on mine. I have my personal beliefs and that is that. I think it should be against the law for anyone to come to your home and pass out literature and such . If they have to go from door to door then it is a cult in my opinion.

originally posted by: ladyteeny

originally posted by: VelvetSplash

originally posted by: ladyteeny
the JW cult is insidious. i find it ridiculous that supposed grown people can't see that living by the words of someone that lived a mere 100 years ago is utterly wrong.

A lot of people find it ridiculous and insidious that supposed grown people live their lives by the words of someone who supposedly lived 2,000 years ago (you know who) or 1,400 years ago (yes, the other one).

agreed. i'm one of them. as far as i'm concerned the bible is nothing but a work of fiction anyway. catholic boarding school helped me see that one!

Personaly your post is stunning to me. The history of humans has everything we have learned and yes lost and regained many places many times...the biblical teaching about morals created decent society where people did not just kill one another for goods because they needed to not covet nor kill their neighbor.

LOOK at ancient history that you so lightly toss away! I could list what we still use and what we know longer even have from history all day! there were perhaps even flying vehicles we have lost.

In 1687, English mathematician Sir Isaac Newton published Principia, which hypothesizes the inverse-square law of universal gravitation. In his own words, "I deduced that the forces which keep the planets in their orbs must be reciprocally as the squares of their distances from the centers about which they revolve; and thereby compared the force requisite to keep the Moon in her orb with the force of gravity at the surface of the Earth; and found them answer pretty nearly."

India is one of the oldest and richest civilizations in the world. It is home to the world's first planned cities, where every house had its own bathroom and toilet five thousand years ago. The Ancient Indians have not only given us yoga, meditation and complementary medicines, but they have furthered our knowledge of science, maths - and invented Chaturanga, which became the game of chess.
According to Albert Einstein, they "taught us how to count", as they invented the numbers 1-9 and 'zero', without which there would be no computers or digital age. Unfairly we call this system of counting Arabic numbers - a misplaced credit.
Two thousand years ago the Indians pioneered plastic surgery, reconstructing the noses and ears on the faces of people who had been disfigured through punishment or warfare. They performed eye operations such as cataract removal and invented inoculation to protect their population from Smallpox, saving thousands of lives

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

a reply to: Char-Lee

i don't need to read a book to know what's right and wrong. none of us do. ancient history has something to teach us. a work of fiction doesn't. in 500 years time the civilisation then might pick up a harry potter book and decide he was a jesus too, who knows.

originally posted by: ladyteeny
as far as i'm concerned the bible is nothing but a work of fiction anyway. catholic boarding school helped me see that one!

Don't make the same mistake that so many others have by confusing religion (which IS fiction BTW), with truth.

The two have nothing in common.

Religion is a counterfeit with an agenda that lies and deliberately deceives.

The stealth agenda behind it is to cause people to hate God and want nothing to do with Him thinking that HE is the one behind the all of the atrocious things that religion does.

In 1979 I had an incredible supernatural encounter and I was given instantaneous knowledge that the Bible I was looking at was written by GOD.

I knew it was a supernatural event and it left a profound impact on what I believed even to this day.

Many have had similar experiences:

"At that time of the day, nobody was at the house. My family, my brothers plus my grandmother, they had all gone somewhere else, up the hill to do something. And I was spending time in one of the rooms of the house, alone, just reading my Bible, and after a while, I just laid out on the floor and was praying, and kind of reading the Bible, and I heard a voice speak to me, it sounded like a male voice, it was audible, and it said "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you."

Working With Angels

At age 12, his growing awareness of God led him to the Bible and he started reading it from the beginning. Halfway through Deuteronomy he decided that it was full of rules and regulations and didn’t want anything to do with it. Just as he shut the Bible he heard a voice say, “Put your hand on top of the table and pick the table up.” Ian put his hand flat on the table top and it rose, sideways off the floor. “It was an amazing power rush,” Ian explained. “Suddenly, I walked in power.”

Excerpt from Shifting Shadows of Supernatural Power

Amazingly, when I set the Bible down, it supernaturally opened to the title page of the Book of Acts ~ Kevin Basconi Dancing with Angels 2

Praying all night in the mosque, he asked God to help him. Suddenly he felt drops of oil falling on him and even smelled its fragrance, he says. He claims another time he heard an audible voice telling him to read a Bible—an abomination to a Muslim. “We would not touch a modern-day Bible,” he says. “This voice immediately put a desire in my heart. It is so vivid, so clear, so overwhelming. Still today, I could not forget that voice.”

For example, one man in a nation hostile to Christianity says he heard a voice telling him, “Find Jesus, find the gospel.” He didn’t know what Jesus was—a chair, a tree, an animal? But the voice told him exactly what city and house to go to, so he traveled for two weeks, arriving directly at the door of one of only three believers in the city.

Why Revival is Exploding Among Muslims

The very next day 6 PM came and no Lord. I waited till 6:05 and began to wonder. At 06:07 I began to pray. God spoke to me and said, "You have no need I appear to you. You now know all I ever did say and ever will say is what the Bible says. The Bible is My Holy Word. It is YOUR responsibility to read the Bible and find out what it says."

To this day, if I have a vision or appearance, and IT DOESN'T AGREE WITH THE BIBLE, I reject it. Period. God stays in line with the Holy Word. Jesus Himself said the scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35, Matthew 5:18.) If you want God to speak to you, read your Bible. The Bible IS God talking to you. And yes, stick with the 1611 King James version. Spend time in praise and worship so you can discern what the Bible is saying.

OUR NEED TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP HIM

Yeshua began His answer: "If you had read My Book you would have known all the answers."

"In fact, everything that My children need to know about how God thinks and works and judges and rewards, either before or after the Cross, is already in My Book. That is why I commanded mankind to ‘engrave My Words upon their hearts,’ and to pass them along from generation to generation. I wanted everyone to hear and know just Who I AM, the Messiah, their one hope of Salvation, their Most High God."

Dr. Richard Eby dies, visits heaven, and returns with a startling message

originally posted by: ladyteeny
a reply to: Char-Lee

i don't need to read a book to know what's right and wrong. none of us do. ancient history has something to teach us. a work of fiction doesn't. in 500 years time the civilisation then might pick up a harry potter book and decide he was a jesus too, who knows.

I am sorry I am just unable to comprehend not learning something from the biblical texts in all forms, there is much to learn there in my opinion besides simply being very fascinating.

a reply to: Char-Lee

My time with the JW's, which is way over a quarter century done, also saw reading of other religious texts. Qur'an. Gita. IDK how many versions of the Bible. Knowledge is important. It wasn't until I found Buddhism, which I consider a philosophy not a religion, did I find something that made sense.

originally posted by: seekingpeace

I know one thing I do not go knocking on there door ...I don't want them knocking on mine. I have my personal beliefs and that is that. I think it should be against the law for anyone to come to your home and pass out literature and such . If they have to go from door to door then it is a cult in my opinion.

The followers of jesus did, as they were told to do. In those days people were much nicer it seems as they were staying in peoples homes when evening came as they traveled.

Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Luke

6 The disciples left and went through the towns. They told the good news and healed people everywhere.

“The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
Since they do teach people not to lie steal cheat murder...why are they a problem any more than any other of the religions?

Broken clocks and rat poison come to mind...

I think most of us know that trusting a broken clock just because it's occasionally right can lead to problems down the road...

Same thing with rat poison.

It contains some good ingredients as well as the poison.

Disinformation is another good analogy.

Good disinfo agents ALWAYS mix good info in with the bad.

Religion and cults are no different.

They are literally rat poison for the soul.

They use scripture and the name of Jesus as the bait.

To be effective, they MUST look, taste, and smell like the real thing and contain some elements of truth.

Here is the end result of believing in these types of lies:

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Jesus explained, “Sesame! In order for someone to be saved, they must believe and receive me sincerely deep into their hearts, but most importantly it is crucial to have a sincere heart and mind. Many who have received me end up in hell, because during the prayer of confession they simply recited the prayer without sincerity!”

Jesus also said, “Many profess they have accepted and proclaimed me into their hearts, and with their mouths believe that they are saved, since they’ve believed in me for a long time, but, it is not the length of time that determines your salvation. It is the process of bearing fruits in your character that leads you closer to attaining salvation.

Many believe blindly the incorrect teaching that simply reciting with their mouths will guarantee their salvation -- and are under an illusion that they will go to heaven. Salvation should be realized through fear and trembling and each individual must grow in sincere faith.” Jesus is heartbroken and frustrated that so many souls end up in hell because they believed erroneously.

Source

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Char-Lee

My time with the JW's, which is way over a quarter century done, also saw reading of other religious texts. Qur'an. Gita. IDK how many versions of the Bible. Knowledge is important. It wasn't until I found Buddhism, which I consider a philosophy not a religion, did I find something that made sense.

Yes a way to actually reach the source that has all of the answers right there within ourselves.
I was very interested to learn it was possible that Jesus traveled to study Buddhism. I think the answers will come as new information is found or released.
The refusal to include the name of Jehovah the removal of the name from so many texts even though the texts themselves tell them the name is important to be known seems interesting to say the least.

Scholars have also found similarities between the teachings of Buddha and Jesus which further adds to the possibility that Jesus learned his teachings from Buddhists. Here are some excerpts from Jesus and Buddha, The Parallel Sayings:

tibettalk.wordpress.com...

a reply to: Murgatroid

To be effective, they MUST look, taste, and smell like the real thing and contain some elements of truth.

I agree with this but especially listen to your inner self if it is well trained it leads correctly.

Still many many people would never even think of god in any way at all until the witnesses and Mormons come to their doors and start them searching. When people go from door to door it clearly is not because it is fun, they endure abuse of every kind and even danger I respect their belief that we the people they visit need to hear a message and so they come even though it must be the most miserable thing to do...having been a salesperson door to door at one time I can attest to this.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
I was very interested to learn it was possible that Jesus traveled to study Buddhism. I think the answers will come as new information is found or released.

These theories all stem from the work of Nicolas Notovich, who has been debunked, and even confessed himself to have fabricated evidence.

Notovitch's book gained significant controversy as soon as it was published - historian Max Müller expressed incredulity at the accounts presented and suggested that either Notovitch was the victim of a practical joke, or had fabricated the evidence. Müller said: "Taking it for granted that M. Notovitch is a gentleman and not a liar, we cannot help thinking that the Buddhist monks of Ladakh and Tibet must be wags, who enjoy mystifying inquisitive travelers, and that M. Notovitch fell far too easy a victim to their jokes."

Bart D. Ehrman, a Bible scholar and historian famous for his best sellers, says that "Today there is not a single recognized scholar on the planet who has any doubts about the matter. The entire story was invented by Notovitch, who earned a good deal of money and a substantial amount of notoriety for his hoax."

The story of his visit to Hemis seems to be taken from H.P. Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled. In the original, the traveler with the broken leg was taken in at Mount Athos in Greece and found the text of Celsus' True Doctrine in the monastery library. Source

originally posted by: charles1952
Why not include that there is more than a fair amount of controversy about Notovitch's book? Let me show you: www.ask.com... And no, Ehrman is not a Chritian apologistic. If there is any objection to him, it's that he doesn't claim to be an atheist. Oh, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the principles of Buddhism weren't translated into Tibetan until the fifth century at the earliest. Jesus may have heard aboout it from travelers, but it's extraordinarily hard to believe he learned it in Tibet. Tibetans were very unlikely to know of it then.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
I agree with this but especially listen to your inner self if it is well trained it leads correctly.

Still many many people would never even think of god in any way at all until the witnesses and Mormons come to their doors and start them searching. When people go from door to door it clearly is not because it is fun, they endure abuse of every kind and even danger I respect their belief that we the people they visit need to hear a message and so they come even though it must be the most miserable thing to do...having been a salesperson door to door at one time I can attest to this.

I hear you, you are raising some VERY intriguing points.

I've often thought of this myself as well and wondered how many have arrived in Heaven because of something said by one of these cult members.

This reminds me of a video I watched yesterday.

Francis Chan talks about how we don't need a middle man or a priest...

We can connect with God ourselves without a cult or a religion.

(@ 3:16 min.)

What would God say about your intimacy with Him right now because if your not walking closely, are you intimate with Jesus, are you close right now because if your not, why make a disciple? Why would he want two of you? Seriously! If I am not walking closely to Jesus why would I want to duplicate that?

a reply to: Fopicon

I will also admit that...

Religion, in most cases, is brainwash. Whenever a human believes in something and rejects opposing evidence, they are brain washed. That is the sign. Religion is meant to deceive. I don't think there is one religion with not a single bit of pagan misconception. At last resort people thought Christianity held up, but that fell apart in Australia first, it didn't reach the media in the US just the internet.

Jehovah, is a false name of God. Like many religions, they falsify the religion to be of pagan origin, otherwise known as the origin of man. The letter J was introduced into the alphabet centuries after any referene period in languag, so speaking of Jah or anything alike is not efficient, but more over, the first pronounciation of Jeh, is now proven incorrect, if one were to use the name of God in new terms by changing the Y sound to a J, it would then indeed be Jah, not Jeh. I will also stand up to any Jehovah witness and prove to them that the whole religion is a pagan fantasy, not just their name.

a reply to: greyer

In Bible times, the name Jesus may have been pronounced Yeshua or possibly Yehoshua—no one can say for certain. Yet, people the world over today use different forms of the name Jesus, pronouncing it in the way that is common in their language. They do not hesitate to use the name just because they do not know its first-century pronunciation. Similarly, if you were to travel to a foreign land, you might well find that your own name sounds quite different in another tongue.

For example the English name JOHN a very common name nobody debates that in English it is "John", but in other languages it is said differently. In fact the "Johns" in the bible where not called "John" in the first century because of the languages spoken. But when you read an English bible it is John. In fact there are many names in the old testament that begin with "J", and we know for a fact that in the original language there was no "J".

So you see the "J" issue people speak about is a non-issue when the totality of the context is known.
It is an issue of consistency either change all the names with "J" or keep them all with "J", not just one, that one being "Jehovah".

As far as God's personal name goes, I agree that in English it is Jehovah. Some scholars make a persuasive argument that in the Pentateuch there were two writers, one who used Jehovah and one who used Elohim. I dont believe that because if there were two people working on the same manuscript, you would think they could settle on what name to call their God? And if one is an editor of the other with extensive additions then why wouldn't he change his predecessors name to his own personal preference if he felt so strongly about it?

There is another school of thought that Elohim is used mostly when the text is about relationship with people and YHWH when talking about legal covenant between them, like we might used "Father" and "God" when talking to Him interchangeably depending on the context.

The scripture in Hebrews is not necessarily talking about a specific name, in those days someone's name was synonymous with what they stood for, who they were, what kind of person they were. Compare what happened in Acts 19
Act 19:13 Some Jews who traveled around and drove out evil spirits also tried to use the name of the Lord Jesus to do this. They said to the evil spirits, "I command you in the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches."
Act 19:14 Seven brothers, who were the sons of a Jewish High Priest named Sceva, were doing this.
Act 19:15 But the evil spirit said to them, "I know Jesus, and I know about Paul; but you---who are you?"
Act 19:16 The man who had the evil spirit in him attacked them with such violence that he overpowered them all. They ran away from his house, wounded and with their clothes torn off.
So that scripture could mean to call on the name of God in the sense of you knowing God well enough.

originally posted by: greyer
Jehovah, is a false name of God. Like many religions, they falsify the religion to be of pagan origin, otherwise known as the origin of man. The letter J was introduced into the alphabet centuries after any referene period in languag, so speaking of Jah or anything alike is not efficient, but more over, the first pronounciation of Jeh, is now proven incorrect, if one were to use the name of God in new terms by changing the Y sound to a J, it would then indeed be Jah, not Jeh. I will also stand up to any Jehovah witness and prove to them that the whole religion is a pagan fantasy, not just their name.

Hehe, you are on to something but you don't quite land it. You are right that Jehovah is an erroneous rendering of JHVH, it can never be vocalised Jehovah. This name originates from a monk who made a proposition that the correct way of vocalising (ie. saying out loud) JHVH would be to inject the vowels from Adonai inbetween the four consonant: jAhOvAh this was later pervaded into Jehovah. If you want a proper name of God (which is supposed to be impossible to spell out) based on the Tetragrammaton, Jahveh is the better one. But even that is fallacy, for JHVH is not a name to be spoken. It's a different kind of name altogether.

Anyway, back to you J issue. You are right that IN LATIN the letter J didn't exist until the Middle Ages, but in Hebrew where JHVH originates, the letter Jod is a J (consonant) and not an I or an Y (vowels) as is used in English transliteration-- since all 22 letters of the Hebrew alefbet are consonants added a few guttural vowels. In many European languages the letter J is called Jod. In IPA spelling, the word "cure" is said with a J sound /kjʊə/. Thereby Writing Jesus in English and saying it the way we do is not right. It should be Yesous, since English phonems and transliteration are the way they are. The D-sound in English J or as in "Djeeses" is purely an English thing. However, that too woud be fallacy, for Jesus wasn't called any of those names. His name was Yeshua or something like it.

originally posted by: Shana91aus
I got the creepiest pamphlet the other day from my regular jehovas witnesses that drop by to give me a watchtower or awake, it read in big letters WHY THE WORLD NEEDS ONE GOVERNMENT- i was like wtf? And i didnt look at it until after they had left so couldn't question them, why the hell would they be wanting a one world government? I will have to try and find it to upload it but it doubled up as an invite to their convention..



Wouldn't the NWO/One Gov't. coincide with the 144,000? The last conversation I had w/a "knocker" When I asked Her about the 144k and that 'they' (JW™) must have more than 144,000 members by now, She told Me and I quote " That is 144,000 different "groups" next to Jesus, each 'group' could have as many members as they wanted.. It almost sounded like a MaryKay™ or AVON™ type 'gig'... But even if it were just 144k that is still a "Us/Them", I'd rather get stuck in another 'Body/vessel' w/My memory scrubbed and have to find My way 'back' ..oh wait..

The readers they leave here use crappy paper/ink and if it gets wet it runs like a track star..

a reply to: [post=18551831]Utnapisjtim[/post ]

I was reading in the bible the other day, and it said "His name shall be called Immanuel" meaning God is with us.
So I was wondering why no one actually calls him Immanuel....

Also, that would go for the argument that Jesus is God himself in the flesh...

I keep almost getting suckered back in because of the fellowship aspect, and "the not forsaking of the gathering of ourselves together" etc, but they deny Jesus being God in the flesh.

Does the bible say somewhere though that in the end days (feels like NOW) it will be too difficult to gather together anyways and the sheep will be scattered, as it feels we are because there is no official gather places and we are to stay away from organized religion??