City of Houston demands pastors turn over sermons

a reply to: beezzer
Romans 13...

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: buster2010
Should a pastor or preacher be allowed to use the church for protection while they are preaching hate? How is this any different from the people that are placed under arrest at rallies when they give speeches promoting hate. Remember several preachers from Texas have been calling for gays to be killed just because they are a pastor in no way means they should be given a free pass.

#1 A pastor should not be preaching hate

#2 American fought hard for the right to free speech, liberals and progressives fought the hardest for free speech (porn especially) in the past 20 years.

#3 There is also a constitutional amendment that is often misquoted by liberals/progressives/Democrats as separation of church and state. Regardless of the correct wording the government is forbidden by law to direct the content of sermons. Intimidation by requiring the submission of sermons is directing content.

#4 This would be the first step in doing away with non-interference in the practice of religion. Do you want to take the first step in doing away with the "separation of church and state" as is often misquoted from the constitution?

I think the pastors have a very clear cut and strong case for suing the city big time and winning hands down a massive lawsuit on this one.

Unless, the government wants to do away with non-interference between church and state altogether. Then what happens when the government changes as governments do and the majority want the church to interfere in the state?

ok, so, you would also apply this to Islamic churches practicing sharia law in Texas?

originally posted by: badgerprints

originally posted by: buster2010
church is forbidden from using the pulpit for political purposes.

By what law?

Tax laws that is why I said give up their tax free status you must have missed that part.
Tax Laws

originally posted by: kaylaluv


Not what I'm saying at all. File a law suit, but be prepared for what happens. That's true when anyone files a lawsuit against anyone, right? Is what the city did illegal? If so, have charges filed. If not, you just have to deal with it.

Lawsuits should not infringe on 1st Amendment rights, and this clearly has the air of intimidation.

The point is, no one is hauling these ministers to jail for their sermons. The first amendment has not been breached here. It's a law suit. Nasty things happen during a law suit. Both sides can get nasty. Fact of life.

If we wait until they go to jail for what they preach, then it'll be too late to complain about.

a reply to: Klassified

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
-Matthew 22:21

a reply to: kaylaluv

do you actually believe that the pastors would stand up in their congregations and tell them all to lie about their identity and sign the petition more than once??
think the bible clearly states that there's a place in the lake of fire for those that lie.
I would hope that half of their congregations would walk out of the church and never come back if they did such a thing!

I can't wait for the city to also demand Mosques also hand over all sermons and literature. Oh wait, they won't. Only those racist dumb Christians.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: kaylaluv

do you actually believe that the pastors would stand up in their congregations and tell them all to lie about their identity and sign the petition more than once??
think the bible clearly states that there's a place in the lake of fire for those that lie.
I would hope that half of their congregations would walk out of the church and never come back if they did such a thing!

If we're going to play that game, then why can't we simply imagine that they also did the right thing?

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: badgerprints

originally posted by: buster2010
church is forbidden from using the pulpit for political purposes.

By what law?

Tax laws that is why I said give up their tax free status you must have missed that part.
Tax Laws

By that same token, would you also agree that unions should give up their tax exempt status for endorsingpolitical candidates? Planned parenthood?

originally posted by: beezzer

If we wait until they go to jail for what they preach, then it'll be too late to complain about.

Well, let me know when that happens, and I'll admit you were right. (eye roll emoticon)

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: beezzer

If we wait until they go to jail for what they preach, then it'll be too late to complain about.

Well, let me know when that happens, and I'll admit you were right. (eye roll emoticon)

But in the meantime, lets push the envelope against the 1st Amendment?

Is that really what you are endorsing?

a reply to: Chamberf=6

Remember this is FOX News. When they hear the word gay they start babbling gibberish and foaming at the mouth.

Facts? psshhh

Lol, anything to start a riot..

a reply to: dawnstar

Do you honestly believe that a pastor would have sex with members of his congregation when they were married, AND while he knew he had AIDS, but didn't bother telling anyone? Do you honestly believe that a priest would sexually abuse children who were members of his church? Do you honestly believe a preacher would preach against homosexuality, then get caught having sex with male prostitutes?

All those things and more have happened. Google it. Just because you are a church leader, doesn't mean you're a good guy.

a reply to: beezzer

because unless they have reason to believe that something like that happened there is no reason to want the sermons and such!
They are not looking for evidence that is pertaining to this case they are hoping to gain evidence for a future case against the pastors- one that could possibly take away their tax exempt status.
Isn't there something about not having to say anything that is self incriminating?

I'm just curious.

How many here would stand up for the 1st Amendment even if it was against something they endorsed.

I think we're beginning to see some actual numbers.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Is silencing churches BAD? I mean to where they claim Being the True And Right say?

Temperance.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: beezzer

because unless they have reason to believe that something like that happened there is no reason to want the sermons and such!
They are not looking for evidence that is pertaining to this case they are hoping to gain evidence for a future case against the pastors- one that could possibly take away their tax exempt status.
Isn't there something about not having to say anything that is self incriminating?

Tax exempt status applies if you are endorsing or not endorsing a political candidate or ideology.

As far as I'm aware, most churches have been preaching this type of thing for millenia.

a reply to: jjkenobi

I can't wait for the city to also demand Mosques also hand over all sermons and literature. Oh wait, they won't. Only those racist dumb Christians.

Haven't you heard? There is only 'one true God', All other gods are really the devil in disguise.

We begin roundups shortly. They are all 'going to hell' anyway, right?

a reply to: kaylaluv

do you believe that they would announce such things in the church bulliten?
Really???
Because I don't!
Not unless they knew that their congregation was filled with non-believers!

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: beezzer

If we wait until they go to jail for what they preach, then it'll be too late to complain about.

Well, let me know when that happens, and I'll admit you were right. (eye roll emoticon)

But in the meantime, lets push the envelope against the 1st Amendment?

Is that really what you are endorsing?

Asking for information to prepare for a lawsuit is not pushing any envelope. The HERO ordinance specifically exempts religious institutions. That means the churches are safe to bash homosexuals all they want. Legally.