State Urges Arkansas Juvenile Detention to Stop Using WRAP Restraint

I have to leave in a few minutes but I wanted to post this because I didn't see any ongoing threads here at ATS and wanted some opinions.
.....I was having a conversation about this story only moments ago, with the gf.

I want to add some thoughts and opinions of my own but I don't want to push this thread in one direction or the other. I am interested in others opinions and will post my own when I get back in a few hours.

State Urges Arkansas Juvenile Detention to Stop Using WRAP Restraint

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What's up with drawing the eyes and mouth on the "mask"....

If parents used this they would go to jail. Double standard hypocrites!
I always say if parents cant spank their children as a punishment to stop bad behavior, then the guards at juvenile hall will beat the snot out of your kid for sure.

a reply to: Jakal26

As someone who has spent years working with kids and teens with extremely challenging behavioral issues I find this simply disgusting. Is there no end to what humans will do to each other and even more so to children? I don't want to hear that they're no angels and they did this or that... I've seen and heard it all, believe me. These kinds of restraints do more harm phychologically and the temporary compliance achieved isn't worth the long term effects. We have got to stop resorting to torture with the delusion that anyone is positively benefiting from it. The lack of freaking compassion in this world is ridiculous, although maybe I'm expecting too much out of our species... We can't even stop imprisoning animals for our own amusement, why would we stop mistreating each other?

a reply to: Jakal26

That looks like torture, plain and simple. Whoever thinks this is a good idea is sick. How we got to be so messed up is beyond my understanding. I'm no saint but geez, look at this crud. Anyone who has ever stuck someone in one of these contraptions should be punished with the same for days on end, along with anyone who has authorized it.

We're supposed to be civilized. This certainly raises doubts about that.

a reply to: SilverStarGazer

I did a couple days community service at a place like that and could do no more than a couple of days. It was awful watching the people there, in all states of whatever diseases or conditions they are wracked by, yet I would never think to offer something like this to any of them. Even to protect them from themselves, which has to be done, I still wouldn't consider this.

The lack of freaking compassion in this world is ridiculous, although maybe I'm expecting too much out of our species..

I agree. Not much more to be said.

originally posted by: SilverStarGazer
a reply to: Jakal26

As someone who has spent years working with kids and teens with extremely challenging behavioral issues I find this simply disgusting. Is there no end to what humans will do to each other and even more so to children? I don't want to hear that they're no angels and they did this or that... I've seen and heard it all, believe me. These kinds of restraints do more harm phychologically and the temporary compliance achieved isn't worth the long term effects. We have got to stop resorting to torture with the delusion that anyone is positively benefiting from it. The lack of freaking compassion in this world is ridiculous, although maybe I'm expecting too much out of our species... We can't even stop imprisoning animals for our own amusement, why would we stop mistreating each other?

I am more concerned about the mentality and the behavior of the people who believe this kind of thing is even remotely acceptable, than I am about the behavior of an out of control child.

I know children with behavioral issues are challenging and few people have the patience and the ability to take on the job of managing them. Anyone that thinks treating any child like this, is sicker than the child could ever be and shouldn't be allowed around children at any time.

a reply to: Jakal26

My first job out of college was in a group home for mentally and physically violent kids. Because of the system, these kids were heading down the path of being sent to juvenile detention or prison, once old enough. Many weren't bad kids, and their main problem seemed to be they felt unloved by their parents. (A whole different discussion.)

We had and used (very infrequently) therapeutic holds to basically submit a child that was out of control and attempt to keep them from hurting themselves or others (similar to what it says about the WRAP).

I don't understand why they need such an elaborate restraint beyond what an adult prisoner would need - hand/ankle cuffs. It does seem very torture oriented.

I'd be interested in knowing how frequently and for what problems/issues they put juveniles into these restraints. That's more important than the fact they have these restraints.

But remember humans will insist we are civilized more than we were 500 yrs ago...
I'm glad they are right. ..............

Thanks for the responses everyone.
I got home late, was exhausted, and didn't bother with coming back around to the thread. I figured as tired as I was, it would be impossible to properly articulate what I was going to say....so, anyways.

For the most part, I agree with those who have posted here. As others have said, this is essentially a torture device.
Humiliating someone in front of their peers while placing them in this device is beyond the pale. It simply reinforces the violence they are already part of....it's counter-productive.

But this is something I wanted to bring up because of a comment I saw while lurking around conversation about this issue and I am glad someone that has worked in this field came into this thread and brought it up.....Let me elaborate......

a reply to: WCmutant

From what I was reading, from the experience of others that have worked in this field...it seems that "mileage varies".
I saw a few comments from those who work in these places and noticed that some were saying that others were mistaken when they keep referring to these juveniles as solely "children" and that some of these juveniles were essentially grown men. Basically, a "force to be reckoned with" at times. Some of these "kids" are upwards of 18 to 21 years old. Some are large and ......well, you get the idea.

Now, I will condemn this particular device and especially parading someone around in it to prove some point that they will comply or else.....but how is one to fully restrain another and what is acceptable and what is not?

Personally, I would imagine that strapping them to a bed (in private) is about as humane as one can be in a situation where "a child" has become violent and is a danger to self and others....but where is the line crossed?

I have mixed feelings (not about this particular device) and understand that, at times, violent reaction is the only recourse. I mean, one cannot just leave a person (child or not) in a facility like this while they are violent, they are a threat to self and to others.

It just seems very counter-productive to treat people in this way.
Then I start thinking about those that end up in these places for things they don't belong there for at all. How the mind can "snap".....

It all just gets depressive when one sees the "cause and effect" nature of all this and I know I am rambling.

Honestly, I think all that needs to be said has been said (about the device itself, which is the subject of the thread) and I know that I am derailing my own thread by taking it in the "what is acceptable" direction, but it seems to be the only point of the conversation here after we agree that this particular "WRAP" device and the ways it is utilized are defined as torture.

So....what is acceptable and where is the line crossed?
(It's early and I'm still not articulating well, obviously)