CIDRAP: "We Believe There Is Scientific Evidence Ebola Has The Potential To Be Airborne"

Around this question, there seems to be much discussion around semantics, i.e. what are the distinctions between the terms airborne, aerosolized, airborne transmissible etc.

However, I don't think these discussions about semantics are useful, and in fact are distracting.

I know we have many first responders on this site and health care workers (thank you all for your noble commitment to help the rest of us), I think the discussion should focus on how to protect these people at an almost 100% level, or it won't be long before they leave their posts due to the risks of Ebola, and I wouldn't blame them.

Here is what the CIDRAP is saying:

We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.

Here is the article, it goes into some good technical detail, more than enough to satisfy the many curious laypeople we have here, I'm guessing.

Link

The whole "airborne" thing already has a lot of misinformation surrounding it. It's not airborne but it's transmissible in "droplets" or aerosol. But, the CDC lists you are ok as long as you are 3 ft from someone. The media has been treating it like you can't catch ebola unless you are licking infested wounds (under the CDC/WHO direction), but since blood is likely in projectile vomit, coughing and the like can spread it within 3 ft. 3 ft of someone and "no transmission without contact" is more than a minor difference.

So we either have media stating its airborne, or official line touters stating its nearly impossible to transmit. But the truth is somewhere in between. Half the information the CDC and WHO had on it was completely dated, and they were slow to respond in the first place. Which makes me question their authority on the matter.

Okay, so it's not airborne but you can catch the virus within a few feet from someone infected through droplets or aerosol. Depending on different conditions this is either more/less effective. Something that needs to be understood better judging on all the accidental exposures and infections. Especially regarding medical professionals. The amount of medical staff who have come down with an infection is way, way to high. If you consider that the same number of staff handling HIV patients or Hepatitis patients, came down with those, you would expect a much larger reaction.

Think about it.

It also has a greater POTENTIAL NOT TO GO AIRBORNE!!

It does say airborne alright, but there has to be some understood limitations, like if the Sun can destroy the virus for instance. And what about good old vinegar? (maybe that's the new vaccine!) drink it and slash it around yourself.

a reply to: boncho
Droplets are airborne. So from that point, it really doesn't matter.
But there are enteroviruses that are with us each year, etc., so I'm not sure this is given the right emphasis….
tetra

Yes I looked it up.

What is the difference between it being airborne and not? I thought they said all along that it was in spit, sweat, etc. If someone is coughing or sneezing and you can get it from that aerosol isn't that the definition of airborne?

An airborne disease is any disease that is caused by pathogens and transmitted through the air. Such diseases include many that are of considerable importance both in human and veterinary medicine. The relevant pathogens may be viruses, bacteria, or fungi, and they may be spread through coughing, sneezing, raising of dust, spraying of liquids, or similar activities likely to generate aerosol particles or droplets.

Hasn't this been fairly freaking obvious the whole time? I feel like I'm missing something crucial here. As Boncho said the media and CDC are acting like you have to essentially lick an open wound to be at risk.

The thing makes you bleed out. I would assume someone coughing or sneezing could easily spray out blood in that mixture that could in turn make contact with mucous membrane or a small cut.

For some reason it seems like people think airborne means the virus would have to be able to fly by itself to be considered airborne. Like a little tiny disgusting pigeon.

Someone help me out here.

a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

In the book the hot zone the monkeys in different rooms and cages spread it all to each other...keep in mind monkeys throw their own # and food at each other....it has been proven, from my understanding, that it can spread through a sneeze...airborne particles of it in fluid.

This was the reston ebola strand

This virus survives in fluids. It only become airborne when people sneeze or cough it out with their spit. Those tiny spit from cough or sneeze, you will not feel it. Trust me, I've been cough at before. You do not notice their spit until you touch your body part the spit lands.

Aerosol from a sneeze can travel over 6 feet, and yet that does not qualify as being airborne. At this point even if it was proven to be airborne they would deny it for two reasons, one so they wouldn't have to admit being wrong, and two would be prevention of panic and fear.

originally posted by: mikell
It also has a greater POTENTIAL NOT TO GO AIRBORNE!!

And how is that? The math doesn't support this statement, in fact it's exactly the opposite. Every time this virus mutates it is one step closer to becoming airborne (if it isn't already). The problem is that nobody knows if it will take 1 more mutation or 20.

a reply to: SpaDe_

Because in the history of the study of virology we have no evidence of a virus changing its method of transmission in vivo. (HIV and Hep have been around a long time and HIV mutates fast, still no airborne HIV).

I'm sure some smart virologists can make it happen in a lab however...

Remember H1N1 a couple of years ago?

Pretty much EVERY single interview with Ebola has so far gone exactly the same way as H1N1.

We've gone through the "oh, it's not airborne, so don't worry" stage to the "don't answer the question about airborne worthiness" stage, soon we'll be in the "oh, it's airborne" stage.

Despite the fact that SIX MONTHS ago, Western African doctors confirmed that this strain IS airborne, and that you only have to be in the same room as a patient without a hazmat suit to contract the virus.

For some reason, the Western media refuses to acknowledge that doctors from Africa may know a thing or two more than they do about a virus they've been dealing with for months / years.

a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Dr. Jane Orient, Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, reported…
EBOLA – “it’s very, very contagious, it only takes between 5 and 10 virus particles to infect a person. You don’t have to have cuts…there are receptors for the viruses in [people’s] normal skin.”

Well, sh!t... What are they gonna tell us next? That ebola can make the dead rise and become zombies? Oh wait...


Seriously, nobody knows. That's the problem. Since they don't know, the proper precautions can't be taken. It will cost lives.

Domo you made me spit tea on my tablet. Tiny little disgusting pigeon. Lol.

Thats just the thing. Its semantics. A droplet from a sneeze can travel 100 mph and go 6-8 feet. Its not airborne in the fact that it can be sucked up by an a/c system, but it is airborne as in if you are sitting on the other side of a subway car, you are seriously at risk.

That 1-3 feet figure, well, the CDC pulled that completely out of their hindquarters.

The bloody disease is bound to spread....Look its got some kind of longevity that it never had before....usually killing too quickly to go far.....
This strain can travel......why?
Maybe because it stays alive longer outside the body?
maybe because its partially airborne...as in droplets....or it is a longer infection period without symptoms...take your pick...but this is getting ELE serious.....

a reply to: stirling

ELE

?

Something has clearly changed. The thing used to burn itself out it seemed like. I've been worried about it since I read The Hot Zone in 4th or 5th grade (I was a weird kid).

Popped up and you would hear about it in the news, but never like this and it always seemed like a problem that was so far removed.

One thing this should teach us is that we need to fund research into treating diseases that are currently "other" people's problems. They could soon be our own and we will be unprepared. Also, the whole humanity thing too.

a reply to: Domo1

ELE

Extinction Level Event

originally posted by: netwarrior
Domo you made me spit tea on my tablet. Tiny little disgusting pigeon. Lol.

Thats just the thing. Its semantics. A droplet from a sneeze can travel 100 mph and go 6-8 feet. Its not airborne in the fact that it can be sucked up by an a/c system, but it is airborne as in if you are sitting on the other side of a subway car, you are seriously at risk.

That 1-3 feet figure, well, the CDC pulled that completely out of their hindquarters.

Yes, and this from the OP's link:

Aerosolized (1-3 mcm) Marburg, Ebola, and Reston viruses, at 50% to 55% relative humidity and 72°F, had biological decay rates of 3.04%, 3.06%. and 1.55% per minute, respectively. These rates indicate that 99% loss in aerosol infectivity would occur in 93, 104, and 162 minutes, respectively.23

In still air, 3-mcm particles can take up to an hour to settle. With air currents, these and smaller particles can be transported considerable distances before they are deposited on a surface.

and...

Many body fluids, such as vomit, diarrhea, blood, and saliva, are capable of creating inhalable aerosol particles in the immediate vicinity of an infected person. Cough was identified among some cases in a 1995 outbreak in Kikwit, Democratic Republic of the Congo,11 and coughs are known to emit viruses in respirable particles.17 The act of vomiting produces an aerosol and has been implicated in airborne transmission of gastrointestinal viruses.18,19 Regarding diarrhea, even when contained by toilets, toilet flushing emits a pathogen-laden aerosol that disperses in the air.20-22

originally posted by: ValentineWiggin
a reply to: Domo1

ELE

Extinction Level Event

then it would have to be planned….