'Breach in protocol' caused second U.S. Ebola infection

A Texas health care worker who provided care for the Ebola patient who died there last week tested positive for the deadly virus, and sent health officials scrambling Sunday to determine how she became infected.

The woman was among caregivers for Thomas Eric Duncan, who died Wednesday at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital.

Thomas Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said Sunday his agency will investigate how a worker in full protective gear contracted the virus.

'Breach in protocol' caused second U.S. Ebola infection

It was just a few days ago on the news I saw a story about how they were training people on how to use those clean suits. In that segment the instructor said the mistake most of his students were making came in the taking off of said suit.

They would remove their gloves first, then barehanded would strip out of the protective gear. and any fluids or contaminants would transfer to their unprotected hands.

Frieden called the positive test "very concerning" but stressed that the protocols for caring for Ebola patients are safe if done properly. He said that removing the gear incorrectly, for example, raises risk.

"This tells us there is a need to enhance training and to make sure protocols are followed," he said. He said the CDC will study ways of reducing the number of health care workers involved in treatment, reducing medical procedures — noting that kidney dialysis, for example, could increase risk — and having a monitor on site to ensure that protocols are followed.

That TV reporter/cameraman was wearing a clean suit when he was infected too. Probably while making the same mistakes when taking off his suit as well....

Or... the equipment their are using is wholly inadequate?

CDC is throwing the nurse under the bus and saying it's a clear breach of protocol. The nurse is saying she followed the protocol and there was no breach. At this point I'm believing the nurse over the CDC.

This is speculation, not fact. I suppose it is comforting to have a breach of protocol be the reason instead of something else. Hopefully the investigation doesn't end here.

This my friend is exactly how it happened. These people know that when dealing with pathogens like diesease you are to go to DECON where HAZ MAT people have the same gear if not a class A suit on and hose you the hell down. You cant tell me they did not know they needed this. As a Fireman I cant leave a HAZMAT SCENE till I get hosed down by a HAZ MAT crew. This virus is about to spread it wings and fly.
a reply to: HardCorps

a reply to: FlyersFan

I've had some training with a positive pressure air mask...
same kind of deal firefighter wear...

anyway, with those I know that just from moving around and working at normal stuff... your sweat and movement is always breaking the seal around your face... at least it did with my big ole fat head...

I've never seen one of these types of suits health care workers are using but from what I've seen on TV... their not the super space suit looking deal... more like what you'd throw on the get rid of a roadkill skunk

The hospitals protocols for dealing with HAZMAT is jacked so I believe her to.
a reply to: FlyersFan

a reply to: HardCorps

As a 'ol CBRNE Dawg (or NBC to the old hands), the gloves were among the last two items to be removed. Boots last. You cut them off if you had to. (boots that is).

you are right about the Positive Pressure System but with a Class A suit its meant for this stuff. they are donning a Class B and its not for this, Thats used for chemicals. But hey what do I know I have done it for 14 years.
a reply to: HardCorps

a reply to: UDrinktheKoolAid

Respect...
Like I said I've only had minimal training in but no practical app of.
still I've sat in enough of those training classes to understand what you and TDawgRex are saying...

My wife's not home otherwise I'd ask her what they use at her hospital?
lot of oil field workers round here and they get exposed to a lot of Chems... but I bet they don't have a full blown class A suit to use...

you see HardCorps if the hospital followed protocol and took a lesson from the Firefighters this would not be an issue here.
See as a Firefighter you are not allowed near the hotzone unless your a HAZMAT Tech. A HAZMAT Ops. person can only get to the warm zone. If Ebola comes here which I fear it will only cause Camp Lejuene is sending Our Marines there to "COMBAT" lol Ebola. when they come home we will be screwed here as well. But hey about 5yrs ago our department got these lovely bags free from the state for things like this now I go tell the Chief that we know what they are for now.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
CDC is throwing the nurse under the bus and saying it's a clear breach of protocol. The nurse is saying she followed the protocol and there was no breach. At this point I'm believing the nurse over the CDC.

I agree with you here. I like to think that a nurse dealing with something with such a high mortality rate would not make such a careless mistake. If anything, she would be extra cautious!

a reply to: HardCorps

They are not saying there was a breach in protocol. Reading the article carefully the guy talking is only assuming there had to be a breach in protocol after assuming that only a breach in protocol could lead to infection.

It's a misleading headline and story.

I find it extremely patronising when the CDC spouts 'breach of protocol', as if health workers have no brains. If they really worked with an Ebola patient, got vomited and spat on and then removed their gloves first and then touched a vomit dripping hi-haz suit, they would be very strange individuals indeed.

Unless of course there was no vomit or spit on their suits and they deemed it save to take off a dry suit because they were told that 'Ebola is not that easy to catch'.

Something doesn't add up. Either the health workers are dimwits who can't see anything wrong with getting into contact with Ebola fluids....or Ebola is much easier to catch than we are told.

I'll go with the latter.

a reply to: HardCorps

Just curious on this Breach in Protocol, if it was made by one nurse could it be possible that there are others who did the same? Also wondering why the CDC didn't monitor the undressing of the CDC gear as the nurse was taking it off. The reason I ask is because we live in a place where this virus is very unknown, we see people dressed to the hilt when handling the virus but who is watching/monitoring the health care workers when dressing, handling and undressing? I think we need a new head of CDC because this guy keeps assuring people it's under control, yet mistakes are being made faster than I can type this!

So whose fault is it really???

Hospitals don't have the decontamination showers (15 minutes of disinfection if I remember correctly from The Hot Zone) do they? I've never seen one in a hospital and as far as I know, they're only in USAMRIID level BCL IV facilities, in other words, maybe 2-4 in the US, none in hospitals unless military.

All I've ever seen in a city hospital is drench showers, water only, and eyeball washers, and those were no where near the patient care units.

originally posted by: UDrinktheKoolAid
you are right about the Positive Pressure System but with a Class A suit its meant for this stuff. they are donning a Class B and its not for this, Thats used for chemicals. But hey what do I know I have done it for 14 years.
a reply to: HardCorps

Arent class A suits only used when we have a level 4 incident on our hands? On that note what is the level of this pandemic?

I am guessing a 2? Maybe 3? But I heard (May be incorrect) That when it's a level 4 that is when they will be using these A type suits with their own oxygen supply inside the suit etc etc.

a reply to: HardCorps

The arrogance of the CDC concerns me - they immediately conclude there was a breach in protocol, with no evidence other than the fact that she was infected - precluding the possibility that the protocol itself is deficient.

To me, that attitude is the most alarming thing.

Perhaps she did make a mistake - but unless they positively know that a breach occurred, and what it was, they should be more circumspect.

Whatever, they need to get this bottled up and soon - with flu season around the corner, the possibility of someone having flu *and* Ebola is frightening - someone with both could be coughing, sneezing, etc, which means medical personnel will miss the Ebola diagnosis, while the patient could be spraying Ebola viral particles everywhere.

Not to mention, the possibility of mutation (I have no idea if it's possible, but it seems the possibilities of gene exchange between influenza and ebola are pretty alarming.)

a reply to: signalfire

Any shower can be easily made into a decon shower.. All you really need is a water source, the chemicals and a couple of rooms, tents even, to separate everything during the process.

Walk in contaminated on one end, and as long as you follow procedures, you should walk out clean on the other end.

But I would be leery of an actual shower as that can spread the vector, especially if it is a hot shower. What they are talking about here is actually a spray room, where the individual goes from point to point getting decontaminated. It's a long, hot process.

I would guess it's the standard of the suits being used. Probably not up to the task of dealing with such a virulent virus, rather than a breach of protocol. However, they aren't going to admit this are they? They would be better off just saying they are still investigating the causes than making a statement like they have, if it isn't true.

I believe the nurse too.

There's no way the CDC would admit otherwise. You would have very few doctors or nurses caring for patients if this was the case.

I'm surprised the nurse tested positive but the family living unprotected with the patient apparently did not get the virus.
Which makes me suspect, the family knew from the start he might be infected and avoided direct contact with him (but told the CDC and the media another story). No one ever said why he came to Texas at this time or who gave him the money. My bet is he told his girlfriend he might be infected and she paid from his ticket.