Help with Thoth, and other Egyptian deities.

I made this blogpost.

r3v3s.wordpress.com...

I would like for someone with an interest and some knowlegde to read it, and come with corrections, links, etc.

I wrote this mostly from wikipedia sources, and some articles.

I try to create some kind of overview of who made who, and such.

Thanks in advance, enjoy, and try to keep the hating at a minimum, I am such a fragile character.

If you really are interested in the Egyptian gods wikipedia isnt the place to get your information, I suggest you go to your local libary or bookstore, read as many books as you can, wikipedia isnt a very reliable source I haveread plenty of books on the celts celtic mythology and the druids, and when I read some some of the things on wiki i cannot belive how off the mark it is
a reply to: modeselektor

originally posted by: angrymob
If you really are interested in the Egyptian gods wikipedia isnt the place to get your information, I suggest you go to your local libary or bookstore, read as many books as you can, wikipedia isnt a very reliable source I haveread plenty of books on the celts celtic mythology and the druids, and when I read some some of the things on wiki i cannot belive how off the mark it is
a reply to: modeselektor

I appreciate your input.

However I plan to get this out in my lifetime, so I need to use whatever sources are available online.
Rather than go hunting for books all over.

If you have something to add based on your knowlegde, please let me know

a reply to: modeselektor

So instead ob doing research you spread misinformation? Are you sure that's not the bigger waste of time? Ever heard of Babylon?

a reply to: modeselektor

Later the sphinxs, as well as many statues of Thutmose, was defaced by having the nose cut of.
A rare form of mockery in ancient Egypt

Or

Some believe Sufi Muslim from the khanqah of Sa'id al-Su'ada, Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr ordered the nose removed after witnessing locals bringing it offerings in AD 1378. Supposedly the locals hanged him for vandalism. There are also stories of either Napoleons and / or British troops doing the dastardly deed at later dates.

The French and British respectively, may have used it's face for target practice but I believe the nose was already missing before then.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: modeselektor

Later the sphinxs, as well as many statues of Thutmose, was defaced by having the nose cut of.
A rare form of mockery in ancient Egypt

Or

Some believe Sufi Muslim from the khanqah of Sa'id al-Su'ada, Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr ordered the nose removed after witnessing locals bringing it offerings in AD 1378. Supposedly the locals hanged him for vandalism. There are also stories of either Napoleons and / or British troops doing the dastardly deed at later dates.

The French and British respectively, may have used it's face for target practice but I believe the nose was already missing before then.

Frédéric-Louis Norden, Voyage d’Egypte et de Nubie, 3 vols. (Paris: Pierre Didot L’Ainé, 1795–1798). Rare Book Collection DT51.N82 1795 F. made in 1755 I believe

a reply to: Peeple

I do do research, only not in dusty library rooms, full of books written by people of the past, that might not have had as much valid information available as we have today.

It's either a generation thing, or some type of blind nostalgia, people who can't seem to get away from the old views of what is considered misinformation.

I assure you plenty of misinformation is presented in many books, where it is hard to challenge it, especially in older books, where surces have long gone.

If there is anything in particular in my post that I link to, that you know to be direct misinformation, please do post some backup of your claim

I am trying to gather, or deduct, a bizarre rhetorical puzzle, and help, rather than indoctrinated views on what is proper, and unproper knowlegde that gets everybody nowhere, is truly appreciated.

Interesting. I am pretty sure the ancient Egyptians where spiritually knowledgeable with the whole Eye of Horus later on used in Eye of Providence (the all-seeing eye of God).

In this case I use the word God as a non human described entity that we try to reach and understand but have a hard time to quantify with words.

OP or anyone else do you have any good information on when the Egyptians knew what would become Kabbalah so that we can see if Egyptians where before Hindu Chakra system? And if they where did they influence the Chakra system or was it discovered without interference of Egyptian knowledge.

Not sure if this is a good source on the vedas.
sacredcenters.com...

The Vedas are the oldest written tradition in India, (1,500 – 500 B.C.) recorded from oral tradition by upper caste Brahmins, who may have been descended from the Aryan stock which entered India from the north. The original meaning of the word chakra as “wheel” refers to the chariot wheels of the rulers, called cakravartins. (The correct spelling is cakra, though pronounced with a ch as in church.) The word was also a metaphor for the sun, which “traverses the world like the triumphant chariot of a cakravartin and denotes the eternal wheel of time called the kalacakra which represents celestial order and balance.

Also I agree with you OP. Just because it is in an old book do not make it more valid as all sources should be questioned equally.

a reply to: SLAYER69

That's pretty interesting. Thanks.

I also found this, which does a great job at explaining what is known about the nose mystery.

www.freemaninstitute.com...

Have you read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth?

originally posted by: signalfire
Have you read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth?

Have you read the post I am asking for help with?

I have read these translations www.crystalinks.com...

One suggestion is not to rely on bibliotecapleyades.net as a resource, they tend to push the fringe theories and not facts. Also keep in mind egyptian religion was not consistent across its entire history.

a reply to: frankensence

Thanks for the heads up.

I am trying to make sense of a name game, that have permiated into newer traditions and beleifs.

Symbols and stories often have a similar core, this is what I find interesting.

We aslo have jewish tradition speaking of all, or something, from nothing.

This also seems true with the egyptian dieties.

Sources are only flawed if they flat out lie or make things up.
Circle arguments based on nothing is a problem.
This we should all be able to agree upon.

However, we need to be able to proof, or at least make a connection, that explains why so and so is a lie, as well as we have to be skeptical of "facts" based on other "facts"

There are many translations of a book claiming to be the book of Thoth or alternatively the Hermetica as Hermes Trismegistus (Hermes Thrice Great) is supposed to actually be Thoth the lore giver in some gnostic circle's.

But?, most of these version's of the Hermetica originate from the dubious sources of reneiscance and post reneiscance period though the book is mentioned in earlier period's there is no proof it survived and itself may have originated post Christianity among the Gnostic community, still if you can track it down it is a good read and read's much like a man's testament to an out of body experience in which he see's thing's like a netherworld and light and dark being's with the dark being's crying always for the light and the light beings sometimes falling back into darkness which is regarded as the primordial state, the light and darkness likewise are only supposed to exist because they were seperated from one another by the creator.

The Emerald Tablets of Thoth are also definitely a 17/18th century forgery based on Tarot symbol's created and also some adapted from the Gypsy community, it was a mis understanding of who the Gypsy's were that led to them being called Gypsy's but it was a title that stuck, today we know they originated originally and at a cultural level in India but when they first showed up in medievil europe they were believed to have come from Egypt, hence Gypsy, so the Emerald Tablets are fake and a poor source of information.

The best source of information would be the British museum or alternatively the Cairo museum though Louvre and several other's in france have had a long rivalry with the british museum so may have equal information on this deity.

If you are serious be ware of new age and post reneiscance mystical texts, they were in fashion but are actually a load of absolute made up rubbish and poorly integrated information mixed with absurd misinterpretation, it was only from the time of Napoleon's egyptian expedition onward that the world began to re awaken to the lost glory's of egypt but this also made anything egyptian, factual or otherwise, en vogue and high society craved it, were there is limited supply forgery and black market always step in to capitalize and that is what happened there, the damage and repurcussions are still being felt especially among the mystic and modern gnostic's today.

sometime between the 3rd and 4th century's a militant christian uprising looted the temple's and shrines of egypt smashing the idol's and defacing the heiroglyphs to put a stop to the still thriving pagan belief's of the non christian egyptian's, later in the 7th century this was amplified by a Arab invasion and conquest of Egypt, Cairo's mosques and grand palaces were built but Stone looted from egyptian shrines and also the caseing stone's of the pyramid's, it is also concievable that the Arab invaders and perhaps the christians during the uprising that was a few hundred years earlier smashed the face of the sphynx.

a reply to: LABTECH767


Thanks for that, you make some good points.

Wouldn't the bible/bibles also at some point become interpreted forgeries?

My point being, that even though the original might be long gone or destroyd, the essense of the stories live on, even in the attempted copies?

I am not into newage, any longer.

I am however interested in quantum physics, and the core of the meaning of the findings, that seem to echo in some religious/ancient writings.

a reply to: LittleByLittle


Thanks for your input, I too would like to know if anyone has info on kabbalism and ancient egypt, I haven't found anything resembling some type of conclusive information.

originally posted by: modeselektor

originally posted by: angrymob
If you really are interested in the Egyptian gods wikipedia isnt the place to get your information, I suggest you go to your local libary or bookstore, read as many books as you can, wikipedia isnt a very reliable source I haveread plenty of books on the celts celtic mythology and the druids, and when I read some some of the things on wiki i cannot belive how off the mark it is
a reply to: modeselektor

I appreciate your input.

However I plan to get this out in my lifetime, so I need to use whatever sources are available online.
Rather than go hunting for books all over.

I do do research, only not in dusty library rooms, full of books written by people of the past, that might not have had as much valid information available as we have today.

It's either a generation thing, or some type of blind nostalgia, people who can't seem to get away from the old views of what is considered misinformation.

I assure you plenty of misinformation is presented in many books, where it is hard to challenge it, especially in older books, where surces have long gone.

There is more misinformation in the sites that you are using than the books that are available whether they be current or old. The information that you are presenting with will neither be completely accurate or complete without furthering your field of research beyond the internet. I have spent my life devoted to researching Thoth and even in my lifetime I have only scratched the surface but then I have also dug beyond just Ancient Egypt both as a place and a time.

I am trying to gather, or deduct, a bizarre rhetorical puzzle, and help, rather than indoctrinated views on what is proper, and unproper knowlegde that gets everybody nowhere, is truly appreciated.

Then you shouldn't be using crystal links as a site for sure, the creater of that site, whilst they have done research and some of the information is rather correct, has blinded some of the information with their own views based on their spiritual take on it.

No matter where you look for information it will always be inaccurate unless you go to the source and it isn't impossible to get to the source, though I suggest picking up a few extra languages, and even then it will be inaccurate because of how the individual mind perceives the information laid out in front of them.

I am trying to make sense of a name game, that have permiated into newer traditions and beleifs.

Symbols and stories often have a similar core, this is what I find interesting.

We aslo have jewish tradition speaking of all, or something, from nothing.

This also seems true with the egyptian dieties.

Rather than looking at the newer stuff you should be looking older, far older than egypt.
Also even in the much older texts you will come across name problems, mostly because they believed back then that passing an ancestors name down in the family meant they were also passing down the perceived power of that name, only unlike today they didn't attach 'junior or senior' to it.

Sources are only flawed if they flat out lie or make things up.
Circle arguments based on nothing is a problem.
This we should all be able to agree upon.

Oneday, what you write will (by someone stupid to be sure) become a source, unless you have lied on all the information you are presenting, then the above statement is incorrect.
Sources are flawed due to lack of information and people like to make sure all the gaps (or at least as many as possible) are filled so they theorize the missing pieces, that is one of the joys of research. Without a time machine we can only theorize.


You need to expand you research beyond just internet and Egypt if you want to learn more about Thoth. I have read your page and whilst some of it is "ok", I laughed mostly because of your sources. I could pick out bits and pieces in your writing but knowing the sources you used.. it's a waste of time.

a reply to: modeselektor

Well for me if you look at other Egyptian entity's such as Horus and remember that how and what we interpret today may actually be totally alien to the ancient egyptian mind.

For example take the story of horus birth and ascension.

His father osiris was cut apart and scattered around the world (to the ancient egyptian Egypt was the world) after being betrayed by his brother Set and set's allies a group of conspirator's.

Isis his sister gathered the pieces of Osiris together and bandaged them making the first mummy, but she could not find his penis (allegorical) so she used a branch and made one for him from which she then concieved a son.

Then Osiris was placed in a cave and after a few day's he was transformed into a being of light, after the God's of Heaven and Earth joined hand's and made a great ladder into the Duat (Osiris belt - the ladder is the sword of Osiris) which is the Egyptian heaven were he became the God of the Underworld and the Dead (the Egyptian underworld is in the Sky).

Meanwhile Horus was born, now the branch may indicate he was not Osiris son but a Branch of the Family and Isis concieved him to take the Throne her other Brother Set had taken after killing Osiris (A three way power struggle with Horus as Queen Isis Proxy), Horus grew up to be a warrior and battled with Set in the Nile, they fought like mighty animal's like crocodiles and hippos but there Set lost a testacle (which could be allegorical to set losing his son and heir) and Horus lost an eye so battles they to a stalemate.

To prevent this civil war escalating as both side's were evenly matched the Elders of the Tribes (The other god's) convened a council at Isis behest and made judgement that Horus should be the King as he had been named son of Osiris.

This was from the very earliest day's of Egypt of course and it is possible that Thoth was actually an older deity or teacher but the egyptian pantheon grew several time's and some God's were assimilated while other's were forgotten.

Look at Akhenaten's reign, he espoused a monotheistic religion saying the Aten or the sun was the only god, some claim this was the earliest monotheistic religion but either way in egypt the Priests were often more powerful than the pharoe and the state was a religious machine, you can't have a recession with religion so that helps to explain the longevity of egyptian civilization, relgions shape and control the mind of people and often even long after they have died the control mechanism's engineered over generation's can still snare and hold the mind of people long after the parent religion has past but in there day these tier's of secret initiation knowledge served to function as heirarchical social caste tool's and were a part of the egyptian culture in which everyone had there place and purpose.

Today if the thin veneer of our society is peeled away we are no where near as integrated and stable as our egyptian equivalent's were, we struggle to see what define's us and our society is lacking structure but that is made up for by our social mobility, still I doubt our civilization or culture would ever last as long as the egyptian one did, change was not the essence of there culture but it is our culture's lifeblood, perhaps we need a unifying religion that can fit any one like they had.

Of course I am personally a christian so this is merely my musing's.

But that said here is some information on line,
First two different site's hosting a PDF of the hermetica for you to read or download, this is in case one is not available were you are.
www.hermetics.org...
www.pistis.pl...
maat.sofiatopia.org...
www.horuscentre.org...

In the past many even priests of the catholic church researched such as the Hermetica though it was widely viewed as a heretical text, it was to those that researched it in no way contradictory of there faith however but offered a different perspective.

Another great work to check out and research comes from a far older source and is believe to be the oldest play on earth called the epic of Gilgamesh, cross reference between these and assyrian god's as well as modern hinduism will I am sure enlighten you, a woman who remembered the layout of an egyptian temple though she had never been there before because she remembered being an egyptian priestess in a past life claimed that the way the modern hindus pray and make offerings was very much like ancient egypt.
www.aina.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Thoth/Hermes = The Planet Mercury.

No need to over think it.