Georgia SWAT Kills Grandfather in No-Knock Drug Raid that Finds No Drugs

a reply to: DaRAGE

I mean... Eye for an eye right?

You know the saying, eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

This is true, but refusing to obey an order on the spot can cause some hardships on you from your peers and CO when you are in the field. True, in this example, someone raising their hand to protest the raid would probably have stopped it, but in a military situation (since you gave the example of a 4 star general tellings a private to do something illegal) things become a bit trickier. Illegal orders are a LOT harder to disobey when your peers are all holding guns and the nearest authority is telling you to do something illegal. What's to stop that authority from issuing a new order to shoot you as well?

These were issues I struggled with while deployed in Iraq back in 05. Luckily I didn't have unscrupulous CO's and NCO's so I didn't have to actually have to be confronted with this issue, but it was always in the back of my head.

originally posted by: subfab

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: subfab

our police force is one of the most important elements in our society. once the trust is gone our country is doomed.

I would venture to claim the exact opposite. A society that relies on state power, intimidation and brute force to maintain its own sense of order cannot be trusted.

So what, then, does it say about our society? That it has to be held together with nightsticks and teargas?

every society has its share of criminal element. the police are there to help us by being the line of defense between us and the bad guys. they are there to help the person getting mugged, or to help the shop owner who gets robbed.

it says our society is normal.

No they are not, you are mistaken.

The police have no legal responsibility to protect you or your family. their legal responsibility is now to come back to the station alive, as they are an asset and not "people".

The police are here to enforce statutes, not laws, they are corporate thugs, here to collect money.

This has all been proven in court.

originally posted by: DigitalJedi805

originally posted by: DaRAGE
Is it just me? Am i nuts? What would you guys personally do if this happened to your Dad?

You're not nuts... My first reaction would be to take the agency for everything they're worth - I'd like the M-Wraps parked in my driveway please. If through some astounding stupidity on the part of the judicial system they weren't indicted and I wasn't thoroughly reimbursed ... Have you ever seen 'Shooter'?

I am starting to think a class action law suit, the people of the US against LEO. maybe one hundred trillion dollars, to be paid by all LEO, judges, involved in any killing of a suspect. Maybe 100 trillion isnt enough?

The amount should be so large as to cause the defendants to be totally wiped out, their whole family should be living in a shopping cart under the bridge down by the river. Then this would stop pretty quickly.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: DaRAGE

I mean... Eye for an eye right?

You know the saying, eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Yes, leave their eyes, take their entire worth, home, bank account, for the whole family (extended including, I mean everyone, grandparents, uncles, cousins, the whole family line) let them live on the streets with no money or help.

originally posted by: AmenStop

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: DaRAGE

I mean... Eye for an eye right?

You know the saying, eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Yes, leave their eyes, take their entire worth, home, bank account, for the whole family (extended including, I mean everyone, grandparents, uncles, cousins, the whole family line) let them live on the streets with no money or help.

So punish those who were not involved?

Grow up and use your head.

The police will get sued over this and, at best, have to pay a settlement. Most likely they'll walk as usual. The best way to slow down this kind of crap is to make the judge issuing the warrants liable should the warrant turn out to be unjustified.

a reply to: NthOther


Not surprised. I've lived down there before. Understand that the ATL Metro is very heavily burdened with prejudice far beyond anyone has seen in the last 50 years. Hence why places like Cobb County are predominately segregated and are known as Count On Being Busted (Cobb). Up around Marietta/Duluth is even worse.

Home Invasions are a sport, brought in part by the NYC cats that migrated down there and took over/clashed with the Chicago/midwesterners.

Police are bored and tend to go Dukes of Hazzard down there. I mean OVERKILL, and a lot of it is out of fear. These northern cats committing the robberies and such scare the hell out of them.

That is why every police department has a TANK.

In 2011, 34 deaths were reported WORLDWIDE for the avian flu. We couldn't get away from it in the media. Politicians scrambled to make sure we were safe. Overcautious CDC screamed at us to toe the line...

In 2014 ONE person in the US has died from Ebola, but it's the most dangerous thing - according to the CDC/Politicians/MSM - that we could ever face.

34 people get killed by SWAT teams, and....meh.....hardly worth mentioning.

Is this really what this country has come to?

We're completely off kilter right now. Ebola and NYC cats? at least Krazysh0t is keeping it real

What I dont understand is wtf that sort of tactic is supposed to accomplish? Wouldnt it be alot easier to monitor the house, then when the occupant goes for a walk or a drive or something *BAM* arrest him, search the house.

The only reason I can imagine for a swat team no-knock entry is if there is a fear for someones life - like a kidnapped child or something.

But its not like this is surprising anyway. The US law enforcement seem to be completely out of control. Land of the free, hah!

The stupidity comes from not thinking about what is bound to happen. The cops bust into someone's house, and they are going to assume that a person with the gun is going to shoot them. That is understandable. Are these cops dumb enough to think that the person with the gun is intent on shooting a cop? As if he knows what is happening and has made a decision to resist the police? No, this person hears someone breaking into his house and is trying to protect himself. Especially considering HE WAS JUST ROBBED. So the big failure is in the policy of not announcing yourselves as police officers. Too bad if the person in the house gets rid of all their drugs. And to be honest, if there is such a little amount that it can be flushed down the toilet, especially that quickly, then there was not enough there to constitute a swat team raid in the first place.

It would be more justified to kick down the door of a person who has large blocks of drugs, and they can't get rid of those, especially not in the seconds it takes for the cops to make their presence known. I think the no knock part has more to do with not giving the person in the house the time to arm themselves and fight back, but what the cops fail to realize is that they would be safer to announce themselves. Why? Let me explain.

You are going to have a certain percentage of people who will fight the cops, knowing they are cops, and these people will also grab a gun to fight off a burglar, since if they will shoot at cops they will probably shoot at anyone else in that situation. This number is going to be set at X. Then you are going to have a certain amount of people who will not fight the cops, but who will fight who they think is a burglar, even if they are really cops, and we'll call these Y. Then there will be a certain number who will not grab a gun in any event, we'll call them Z. So by announcing themselves the cops need only fear the X group. But by not announcing themselves the police need fear both the X and Y groups.

Let's say the number of people who would knowingly fight the cops is set at 10. The number of people who would not fight the cops but who would protect themselves against burglary will be set at 50, which is reasonable since there will be more people who fit this bill. The number of people who wouldn't do anything doesn't really matter.

So X=10 and Y=50. Let's say the resistance the police will face equals R. So in a situation where the police announce themselves R = X. In a no knock situation R = X + Y. So the smaller the number, the less dangerous it is for the police. So by knocking the danger level equals 10, but by not knocking the danger level equals 60. And it doesn't matter what numbers you use, because there will always be more people willing to protect their homes than there are willing to fight it out with the police.

It's almost impossible to get a no knock warrant in GA. The OP is NOT a no knock warrant, the SWAT team just improperly conducted it as one.

Hooks family attorney Mitchell Shook said that even though the warrant was not a no-knock warrant, the Laurens County SWAT team did not announce its presence, but just broke down the back door of the residence.

Also if you do read the original news report the SWAT team claims they knocked and alerted the residents...

The problem I have with that is it was 3 am...do they really think they were heard or did they intentionally knock quietly and whisper "police" in giggly voices as a loophole?

a reply to: merka
That is what SWAT was founded for, the last resort hell in a handbasket scenarios. People were feared into allowing their creation, and today they are used for things as stupid as serving a warrant for an ounce of pot. They have now become the only resort, instead of the last resort.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: AmenStop

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: DaRAGE

I mean... Eye for an eye right?

You know the saying, eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Yes, leave their eyes, take their entire worth, home, bank account, for the whole family (extended including, I mean everyone, grandparents, uncles, cousins, the whole family line) let them live on the streets with no money or help.

So punish those who were not involved?

Grow up and use your head.

Yes, thats the best way to stop it. Would you do anything if you knew your family would be effected?

a reply to: AmenStop

So does your logic work for everybody or just the families of cops?

originally posted by: DaRAGE
Let me just say this. I'm an Australian. But if a crackhead were to tell the police that my dad was selling drugs, and the police did a no-knock search and bashed in my dads door and my dad out of fear of the protection of himself and his wife, my mum, was carrying a shotgun for protection and the police shot my father to death.... I would hunt down and murder every single one of those police officers.

Maybe i'm a bit psycho... But I honestly think that is the route that I would take.

I mean... Eye for an eye right?

Or are the relatives just happy that this person was murdered? I mean come on guys. This is murder by police endorsed by the state... I would literally lose my mind if this were to happen to me. Why don't other people?

Is it just me? Am i nuts? What would you guys personally do if this happened to your Dad?

The thing that I still find comforting to know, is that we wouldn't allow it in Australia. Our communities would hold police to account - or else.

That's why I'm staggered that Americans have allowed this to happen for so long that it's become the norm for them. They even have automatic weapons and they still can't keep police from killing them.

All I'd have to do is threaten the cops with telling my old lady neighbour with a cane and that she would 'be very cross with them' and they'd probably back off in fear.

It may have something to do with perceived size of the communities here vs in the USA, I don't know. But for all their talk, they have allowed the very thing to become culture that they claim to hate the most.

a reply to: raymundoko
Wouldn't really matter if they did yell police. If you are woken up by a loud noise(Yell of police), how often do you know what woke you up? You just know you heard something loud enough to wake you up, or at least that is how it works for me. Loud noise wakes me up, then I hear the sound of my door being busted down, it's war time. I advise cops to knock on my door at a decent hour of the day if they have any business to conduct with me.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I don't get how these no knock warrants are still happening, all they do is get people killed

Boggles my mind. Yeah, if there's a crack house or a distributor that's fine, but using no knock warrants for every little thing is ridiculous. It's setting everyone up for failure. Usually over something that's rather benign anyway. Someone's life isn't worth getting a pound of whatever of the streets. Cop or citizen.

Well if no knock is legal then engaging them is also legal. Do what Joe Biden has suggested, just shoot them right through the door.