Spain Warns "Something Went Wrong" As Suspected Ebola Cases Rise In Madrid

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
On any underground…..how many 'contact points' are there….doors, grab handles, other surfaces, etc etc……….

How Warm is it in the subway……… I was becoming paranoid at the slightest cough….

IMO..it's just a matter of time folks….

PDUK

You confound the number of possible "contact points" with a person's decision to touch them all. During flu season in the USA, it's common knowledge (I think it's common) that if you're in a public place you should be a) not touching everything and b) not touching your face with your hands, and c) washing your hands when you get home. My guess is the same practices actually help prevent the spread of Ebola in Africa. Many people are assuming Ebola is this super pathogen that is so contagious all you have to do is come into contact with one spore and you're done. Not true. In fact, in Africa, misunderstanding of the illness and little education about basic hygienic practices probably accounts for a good deal of the illness spreading.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: SpaDe_

Its hard to say conclusively that it is air borne at this point due to not being able to go over every step this nurse took in dealing with the original patient. At any point did she not have on gloves? Was there a hole in the gloves she did have on? etc. I know that places like USAMRIID does use negative pressure in their level 4 labs just for air borne cases,but we don't know if this was a cause or not. Small pox has and can go air borne as in the case in Germany.

It can and does go airborn there was a case in USAMRIID in the 70's or early 80's that it went airborn.

a reply to: guitarplayer

Having read The Hot Zone,I'm well aware of that. But I'm not ready to say just yet that every transmission is due to going air borne. Need to look at other routes of transmission first and then when the rest is known not to be the case we can call it air borne. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. We just don't have enough facts on it yet for this case.

a reply to: loam

It really is a deadly game to trust WHO and the USA's CDC. By far it is better to take extreme measures for self-preservation.

There being no flight ban simply tells me that someone with a great deal of power wants this disease to spread and kill as many human beings as possible.

Probably it would be a good idea to force all those attending the last decade's Bilderberger and Davos meetings to go serve as hospital nurses and ETU staff right now in Liberia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. How quickly would an abundant supply of the antidote flood the world starting from the Ground Zero ... where a certain government is believed by many to have released this strain?

originally posted by: Petros312

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
On any underground…..how many 'contact points' are there….doors, grab handles, other surfaces, etc etc……….

How Warm is it in the subway……… I was becoming paranoid at the slightest cough….

IMO..it's just a matter of time folks….

PDUK

You confound the number of possible "contact points" with a person's decision to touch them all. During flu season in the USA, it's common knowledge (I think it's common) that if you're in a public place you should be a) not touching everything and b) not touching your face with your hands, and c) washing your hands when you get home. My guess is the same practices actually help prevent the spread of Ebola in Africa. Many people are assuming Ebola is this super pathogen that is so contagious all you have to do is come into contact with one spore and you're done. Not true. In fact, in Africa, misunderstanding of the illness and little education about basic hygienic practices probably accounts for a good deal of the illness spreading.

In Africa, all that has to happen is one spore coming in contact with you... Flies are pretty efficient vectors of this, after they have chowed down on something Ebola-gross, like vomit, crap, spit... corpses, who knows what else? Then one landing on you... or even shortly before you come in contact with it - on one item. That's all it takes, then you're toast.

Times are tough. The only real hope is Jesus, who can heal if one gets Ebola.

a reply to: Petros312
Tell that to the over 200 healthcare workers taking full precautions who have died.

originally posted by: MarkJS
In Africa, all that has to happen is one spore coming in contact with you... Flies are pretty efficient vectors of this, after they have chowed down on something Ebola-gross, like vomit, crap, spit... corpses, who knows what else? Then one landing on you... or even shortly before you come in contact with it - on one item. That's all it takes, then you're toast.

Ah...No. Not quite.

Journal of Infectious Diseases (2007)
Assessment of the Risk of Ebola Virus Transmission from Bodily Fluids and Fomites
online source: jid.oxfordjournals.org...

"Large outbreaks of EHF [ Ebola hemorrhagic fever ] are usually driven by personto-person transmission, with caregivers both at home and in hospitals being at particular risk"

"direct contact with bodily fluids is considered to be the major risk factor"

"our results support the conventional assumptions and field observations that most EBOV transmission comes from direct contact with blood or bodily fluids of an infected patient during the acute phase of illness. The risk of casual contacts with the skin, such as shaking hands, is likely to be low."

Journal of Infectious Diseases (1995)
Transmission of Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever: A Study of Risk Factors in Family Members, Kikwit, Democratic Republic of the Congo, 1995
online source: jid.oxfordjournals.org...

"EHF is transmitted principally by direct physical contact with an ill person or their body fluids during the later stages of illness."

And of course, given I'm a government agent (that's just a joke BTW) I'll add that the CDC says:
online source: www.cdc.gov...

"Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food. However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus."

I say this lovingly: The people who continue to believe that Ebola poses a serious threat as an airborne virus need to educate themselves, and perhaps stop listening to news media speculation about "mutations."

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Petros312
Tell that to the over 200 healthcare workers taking full precautions who have died.

If you read the journal articles in my other post you'll see health care workers having direct contact with Ebola patients are at highest risk for contracting the disease, but this does not mean the risk is airborne contact with the virus.

originally posted by: Petros312

originally posted by: MarkJS
In Africa, all that has to happen is one spore coming in contact with you... Flies are pretty efficient vectors of this, after they have chowed down on something Ebola-gross, like vomit, crap, spit... corpses, who knows what else? Then one landing on you... or even shortly before you come in contact with it - on one item. That's all it takes, then you're toast.

Ah...No. Not quite.

Journal of Infectious Diseases (2007)
Assessment of the Risk of Ebola Virus Transmission from Bodily Fluids and Fomites
online source: jid.oxfordjournals.org...

"Large outbreaks of EHF [ Ebola hemorrhagic fever ] are usually driven by personto-person transmission, with caregivers both at home and in hospitals being at particular risk"

"direct contact with bodily fluids is considered to be the major risk factor"

"our results support the conventional assumptions and field observations that most EBOV transmission comes from direct contact with blood or bodily fluids of an infected patient during the acute phase of illness. The risk of casual contacts with the skin, such as shaking hands, is likely to be low."

Journal of Infectious Diseases (1995)
Transmission of Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever: A Study of Risk Factors in Family Members, Kikwit, Democratic Republic of the Congo, 1995
online source: jid.oxfordjournals.org...

"EHF is transmitted principally by direct physical contact with an ill person or their body fluids during the later stages of illness."

And of course, given I'm a government agent (that's just a joke BTW) I'll add that the CDC says:
online source: www.cdc.gov...

"Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food. However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus."

I say this lovingly: The people who continue to believe that Ebola poses a serious threat as an airborne virus need to educate themselves, and perhaps stop listening to news media speculation about "mutations."

I'm glad that you didn't sugar-coat the study. The part I'm looking at is:
The risk of casual contacts with the skin, such as shaking hands, is likely to be low

Low risk is not no risk. We all know that the Ebola virus survives on fomites for a limited time. All you need is one fly to transfer some spore from a fomite to a live person, and unfortunately the result will be disastrous.

Referencing the article you cited:

The risk from environmental contamination and fomites might vary in the household or other settings where decontamination would be less frequent and thorough, especially if linens or other household materials were to become visibly soiled by blood.

The risk varies. I'm not saying that flies are biting people and spreading Ebola (although some do bite). Just the scenario of flies doing what flies do... eat, buzz around, land on people then poop on people with their little fly poop... carry fomites on the ends of their legs (their feet??)... You know, the usual. All the while spreading Ebola fomites all over the place.

and further down, to the paragraph you mentioned:

Taken together, our results support the conventional assumptions and field observations that most EBOV transmission comes from direct contact with blood or bodily fluids of an infected patient during the acute phase of illness. The risk of casual contacts with the skin, such as shaking hands, is likely to be low. Environmental contamination and fomites do not appear to pose a significant risk when currently recommended infection control guidelines for the viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed. Prospective studies with the collection of a greater number of clinical samples from patients at different stages of EHF, as well as environmental samples analyzed with an assay validated for EBOV detection in such samples, should be performed to confirm our results.

Shaking hands 'in general' is a low risk practice. They mention further on that testing with other people at different stages of EHF should be done to confirm the results. I am just saying this from gut instinct, but I'll be very very hesitant to shake hands with somebody suffering with EHF and has noticeably sweaty palms. And who knows if he/she washed their hands after they 'cleaned up' after their last barf?

Ebola, in its present form, is not airborne. You can tell by the Rate of Infection curve. If Ebola goes airborne, the R nought will jump to 24 minimum. That means twelve times more contagious than it is right now (bare minimum) and more likely 60X.

Negative pressure rooms will not reduce the rate of transmission.

Now, Ebola can be transmitted through the air in-medium, meaning that the floor of any treatment area is likely to become infected. People walking in and out of that room can spread it all around.

It's a Class IV pathogen that's unsafe outside of a Class IV Facility. Period. And that's if all of the Class IV Facility protocols are followed. I will guarantee, 99.999% of you have never seen the inside of a Class IV facility. Probably less than 95% of you have driven past one within a mile's distance.

Now ask yourself: Why don't you see plain talk like this on TV? Why are professionals in the healthcare industry not taking a safety stand-down to fully brief their staff on what protocols MUST be implemented to impose some limitations of risk?

Most ATS members in the healthcare business work in Class II facilities. I work in a facility with a Class III rating. Not ... one ... person ... has ... been ... briefed ... where ... I ... work. What about you?

At the hospital where a Spanish nurse got Ebola, workers say their training was poor

They're protesting in Spain over their poor training.

In addition, Spanish officials to kill dog belonging to nurse with Ebola to stem possible spread

Just nuts.

I don't care what anyone says, it's airborne. Too many people have gotten it.

a reply to: MarkJS

Uhhhh....what? Are you serious? If you are, get Jesus to snap into action, quick. He's slacking...seriously slacking at this "healing" thing.

But let me guess, you have to believe to see. Go figure.

originally posted by: Sparkymedic
a reply to: MarkJS

Uhhhh....what? Are you serious? If you are, get Jesus to snap into action, quick. He's slacking...seriously slacking at this "healing" thing.

But let me guess, you have to believe to see. Go figure.

He will use His people- Christians. And not just Christians all bogged down by rules and regulations. Christians that have life. He will use Christians that have enough life in them to be able to pray to a living God and see healing manifest because God answered their prayer. These are the people you can look for - for healing.

I see you're wise about a couple things. Yes the person asking for healing from God - will logically have to believe that God loves them enough to want to help them.

It's either that, or taking some not fully tested, rush to market vaccine. Good luck with that.

a reply to: Petros312

I say this lovingly: The people who continue to believe that Ebola poses a serious threat as an airborne virus need to educate themselves, and perhaps stop listening to news media speculation about "mutations."

Thats cute, except youre right.....it is transmitted like the flu......and any contact with the eyes, mucous membranes or mouth can lead to infection......

Being that its transmitted like the flu and the flu isnt airborne, just like ebola

In the United States alone, the CDC estimates that more than 200,000 people are hospitalized each year with the flu or with flu-related complications

Thats just the people hospitalized.......

Downplaying and disinfo on how you can get ebola doesnt make it go away........

a reply to: Snarl

been hearing this a lot man, for whatever reason this laxidasical response to whats going on is going to cost lives I fear....

I know a few nurses here in the DFW/Weatherford area, and none of them have been brought in to have this conversation either......

it makes NO sense.....

a reply to: Petros312

Your sources of info seem to be dated 2007 and 1995.....I think we should be considering all the people who have been infected , while seemingly taking all necessary precautions here in 2014. Not buying the " all's well " and "we can stop this "message being put out by CDC and WHO.

originally posted by: Snarl

Most ATS members in the healthcare business work in Class II facilities. I work in a facility with a Class III rating. Not ... one ... person ... has ... been ... briefed ... where ... I ... work. What about you?

I work in a hospital, and I am very concerned. Not one word has been spoken. Many times I have brought up the subject of Ebola, hardly anyone seems to have heard about it.... or what I sense is that people are in denial. They don't want to consider it, they are using "magical thinking" (if I do not think about it, it cannot get me).

The media here in France is notorious for doing the opposite of the american media- playing things down to limit the possibility of scaring the public. Since these latin based cultures are very emotional and reactional, quick to organize into huge protests using collective force, they don't want to spark that off.

I work in the hospital kitchen, and watch people being splashed in the face with water off of dishes that have been eaten off of by possibly infectious patients. Even discounting Ebola, there are people with bacterial infections, viruses, etc. already, and no masks are being used to protect from that saliva. Sometimes vomit is included on those platters, one day we recieved the container of the morning breakfasts, splattered all over with blood!

No precautions were suggested in cleaning it, no gloves were even put on to pull it out of the elevator.

I don't know, perhaps the nurses, doctors and aids take much more precautions.... but in a hospital, there are other services involved- like cleaning, laundry, cooking, that are just as much at risk.

We're recieving immigrants from Africa everyday, and possibly even more than ever right now, because they want to get away from the risky areas. Even if the protocal was suddenly, drastically changed and we were alerted to danger, I think many of the people I work with would not believe it or put it into practice. Their idea would be- "they are lying. If there was so much danger, we would have heard about it before now."

It is bull#, not airborne. Everyone should be wearing protective gear and have safety tents up outside like the SARS virus.

Ebola can survive water. They need to disinfect hospital waters. The whole hospital should have been in Lockdown. I seen patients moving around in hospitals because they can get up. The Nurses should keep watch on Ebola patients and stop them from moving around the hospital because they should not be moving at all due to being highly contagious.

Nurses should be wearing Hazmat suits already against Ebola if it infects that fast in Africa. Beware of coughs too. Cough spits out tiny fluids. It is what every nurses fail to understand. Coming in without protecting the skin.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: ketsuko
They may not have them (which I actually don't know if we can verify either way), but their good buddies in the government/military do.

Yes, they do which is why I said specifically "contracted through the government."

Basically, my husband works at a bio containment 2, and by the time they get through one round of inspections to satisfy state, federal, local, they are immediately gearing up for the next round of the same. It's a never ending process to stay compliant. That's not easy or cheap for even the very biggest companies, and this is two levels of containment below bio-4.

And that's before we get into all the red tape and litigation from the NIMBY principle because no one wants a bio-4 in their backyard. Do you blame them? The new bio-4 facility at K-State was supposed to be opening next year, but they've barely broken ground on it between the people fighting it in Kansas and other states continually bidding to try to steal it. Most major private firms would have simply given up by now, but not the government!

No, private research to be done is going to be done through those government labs.