Indiana trooper pulled over woman to ask if she’d accepted Jesus Christ as her savior: lawsuit

www.rawstory.com...

An Indiana woman says a state trooper pulled her over this summer and asked if she had accepted Jesus Christ as her personal lord and savior.

Ellen Bogan said she was stopped in August by Indiana State Trooper Brian Hamilton, who asked whether she had a home church and handed her a pamphlet asking her to “acknowledge she is a sinner.”

It's a good thing she didn't smart mouth back at the LEO; He might just have beat the devil out of her.

Bogan said the trooper gave her a pamphlet advertising the “Policing for Jesus Ministries” radio program hosted by “Trooper Dan Jones.”

She said she does not go to church, but she felt compelled to tell the trooper she did.

I think I would have done the same to avoid trouble.

a reply to: olaru12

I would have said no and refused to take it. That police officer can't arrest you for refusing to take a piece of paper.

a reply to: olaru12

Even as an orthodox Christian, I think that this is offensive and wrong.

Legally, I think it's going to hinge on this:

The Trooper then asked her if he could ask her a personal question. Ms. Bogan did not feel she could refuse and when she assented the Trooper asked if she was from the Richmond area. (Source)

She willingly answered personal questions and agreed that it was okay for the trooper to "give her something" without knowing what it was (the pamphlet.) To win her "unspecified damages" for the extra two minutes or whatever it was she was stopped for will require demonstrating that she was forced to do so. He never brought up religion until she'd agreed to a personal conversation.

But, still, absolutely wrong and the trooper should be disciplined, up to and including firing him.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No but they can shoot you and say you resisted arrest in a drugs/weapons search...


Crazy Christian police...
# me we need help in this world!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: olaru12

I would have said no and refused to take it. That police officer can't arrest you for refusing to take a piece of paper.

No, but OTOH, it makes great evidence. I'm gonna love watching this one go through the courts.

At what point does 'normal' religiosity become mental illness, and why aren't police officers given frequent psychological tests?

(Yeah, I know; if we tested them all for psychological fitness, only a small fraction would be viable employees).

As a Christian I think this is wrong and unjustified. No need to advertise or confirm/deny someone's beliefs.

As a citizen I think it's totalitarian and selfish. Pull someone over for speeding yes, but not to check on their beliefs.

Sue him and chalk it up to the uniform negatively affecting most who wear it. S + F

a reply to: olaru12

Dear God! (no pun intended....well, maybe a little bit)

What next? Are they going to start beating religion into the populace?

Officer: "Do you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior?"

Innocent civilian: "No sir, I do not. I am agnostic.

Officer: "Well then, It's my duty to hit you with my baton until you accept his word as gospel." "If you still do not, I will just shoot you and send you straight to hell!"

Just kidding of course but WTH?

God bless America.

a reply to: olaru12

Betcha she accepts 50 large

a reply to: olaru12

this is what im talking about when i say "abasing". it was that important to let the woman know that god thinks shes an ugly roach and an insult to his existence unless she sells her soul to his financially-challenged establishment.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: olaru12

I would have said no and refused to take it. That police officer can't arrest you for refusing to take a piece of paper.

No but they can tie up your car and time for suspicion of having drugs or paraphernalia. Or some other trumped up charge if you refuse to bow to their authority. Jesus and roids could be a mean combo!!!

Sometimes the path of least resistance is the most prudent one to take.

a reply to: olaru12

What's the saying F%#@ the police but don't get $%*@ by them?

a reply to: olaru12


What happened to just yelling "JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS!!!!" Or does that tactic only work on lil kids that have no concept of "sin"?

"Acknowledging She is a sinner" that is 'thumper chat' for "copping to it".. I remember giving away coupons for FREE turkeys for folks using their turn indicator, a pamphlet advertising a fellow officer's religion™ program? Not unless I was on glue.

I'd be curious on what the probable cause was for the traffic stop?? Was there a violation or did this Lady "just look" like a "sinner" But seeing that JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS!!!

I hope this Lady gets such a large settlement that ALL religion™ will have to start paying their taxes... And for those of Us that can and have survived w/out a "rule book" I salute You, see You at The Revival...

namaste

Could have been worse. What if he were a muslim cop trying to push his agenda. Grim thought, sorry. just thought I'd throw it out there.a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

WWJT?

Who Would Jesus Taze?

The more I think about this, the more worrying it gets. Why did this guy suddenly start handing out pamphlets, or has he been doing this a while? What is a civilian supposed to think when a police officer with full weaponry at ready asks, 'can I give you something....' What are they supposed to say, and is 'no' going to be a good idea? How close are we to a very slippery slope if someone this unbalanced and lacking in critical thought (about religion and what's appropriate) is sent out of the HQ in the morning with a badge, a police car, a gun, bullets, a tazer, a baton and handcuffs, and the full force of the law behind him up to and including the ability to arrest for whatever cause he sees fit, and shoot to kill if that also seems to him, a good idea?

originally posted by: w8tn4it
Could have been worse. What if he were a muslim cop trying to push his agenda. Grim thought, sorry. just thought I'd throw it out there.a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

I don't really take kindly to ANY religion that tries to force their views upon people. But, I do understand what you're saying.

My beef is that we are suppose to have separation of Church and State.

This whole scenario is just wrong. He was an on duty officer. It doesn't matter if he asked permission in order to ask a personal question.

If he was so concerned about her soul and eternal damnation, he should have asked those questions while off duty and out of uniform.

Period!

He used his "authority" to express his own personal beliefs.

I bet this guy gets fired and has to pay costs and damages and the police like the one who shot Michael Brown gets off free. Yes, we sure need help.

This is very slippery ground in my opinion, and the exact details of what occurred will make all the difference. Like for instance whether she was committing a traffic violation when he pulled her over, or if it was just to tell her this stuff. It seems that it would be difficult to prove either way to be honest, and considering she has filed a lawsuit, I think it would hurt her case if she admitted the cop had reason to pull her over. I say this because what happened after she had pulled over was sketchy. Meaning that he was just having a conversation, and he did not use his authority to gain her compliance in any way during the conversation. Rather, it will be important to establish whether he did or did not.

I would not think it is against the law for him to say something like that, at least no law that I can think of, considering he is just expressing his own Constitutional rights. The pamphlet was not totally unsolicited, although she did not know what he was going to give her. I agree that it is completely unethical for a cop to use his authority in this manner, but unethical doesn't equate with illegal in this instance.

You know what seems odd to me though? Cops murder innocent people, violate our Constitutional rights, among many other highly illegal things, yet it will likely be THIS cop who has the book thrown at him, even though what he did was nowhere near as bad. That is the state of our country, and how some people despise religion so much that their beliefs will make them furious over what the guy did...Yet the other acts I mentioned do not invoke their disgust on such a level. We will see if I'm right. Watch this cop actually get fired, instead of paid leave, etc...And I can guarantee you that I am right in saying that some people will have a larger reaction to this than they do when an innocent person has their rights violated in various ways...Ways that actually harm a person.

I am not sure if the lawsuit should be considered frivolous, as the cop was in the wrong. But to think that any damage was caused to the woman is ridiculous. I am not saying this lawsuit if frivolous, but compare the number of lawsuits that take place today and that took place many decades ago. Like night and day, which leads me to believe that people are suing for anything and everything. I think lawsuits should be limited to things that actually cause harm, and I just don't see it here. It is just ridiculous, some of the things people sue other people for. I wonder how much emotional damage this caused her? If it caused her any, then she wasn't emotionally stable to begin with. What is it with people who have such a constitution? I wouldn't even consider suing someone for expressing their religious beliefs to me, even if that person were a cop. And that would be the only kind of damage that could have taken place. I think an apology would be sufficient to be honest, considering the guy didn't hurt her, threaten her, etc...

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: olaru12

I would have said no and refused to take it. That police officer can't arrest you for refusing to take a piece of paper.

No but they can tie up your car and time for suspicion of having drugs or paraphernalia. Or some other trumped up charge if you refuse to bow to their authority. Jesus and roids could be a mean combo!!!

Sometimes the path of least resistance is the most prudent one to take.

I'd welcome that. The longer I'm held up for non-police business by a police officer during a routine traffic stop (especially for something religion related) the bigger the dollar signs in my eyes would get. I'd make sure I'm respectful to the officer too (no need to screw up my settlement figure because I was irate with the officer). Then when I did finally get home, the first thing I'd do is call a lawyer and start suing.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
Meaning that he was just having a conversation, and he did not use his authority to gain her compliance in any way during the conversation. Rather, it will be important to establish whether he did or did not.

I would not think it is against the law for him to say something like that, at least no law that I can think of, considering he is just expressing his own Constitutional rights.
...
You know what seems odd to me though? Cops murder innocent people, violate our Constitutional rights, among many other highly illegal things, yet it will likely be THIS cop who has the book thrown at him, even though what he did was nowhere near as bad. That is the state of our country, and how some people despise religion so much that their beliefs will make them furious over what the guy did...Yet the other acts I mentioned do not invoke their disgust on such a level. We will see if I'm right. Watch this cop actually get fired, instead of paid leave, etc...And I can guarantee you that I am right in saying that some people will have a larger reaction to this than they do when an innocent person has their rights violated in various ways...Ways that actually harm a person.

... to think that any damage was caused to the woman is ridiculous. ...I think lawsuits should be limited to things that actually cause harm, and I just don't see it here. It is just ridiculous, some of the things people sue other people for. I wonder how much emotional damage this caused her? If it caused her any, then she wasn't emotionally stable to begin with. What is it with people who have such a constitution? I wouldn't even consider suing someone for expressing their religious beliefs to me, even if that person were a cop. And that would be the only kind of damage that could have taken place. I think an apology would be sufficient to be honest, considering the guy didn't hurt her, threaten her, etc...

Maybe you haven't been pulled over by an officer, but when the other guy is armed with weapons and the authority to arrest, it's different than being asked the same question by an off-duty officer or civilian. If an officer asked me a loaded question like that, I'd become at least somewhat worried about how things were going to play out.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: olaru12

I would have said no and refused to take it. That police officer can't arrest you for refusing to take a piece of paper.

They just shot a dude for reaching for his license.

I'm thinking if they can shoot you for grabbing a piece of paper they tell you to grab, they can certainly shoot you for not grabbing the piece of paper they tell you to grab.