'Jesus NEVER existed': Writer finds no mention of Christ in 126 historical texts and says he was a

originally posted by: Char-Lee

........it is simply because he uses many names and he is also trying to leave his word in our hearts and minds.

Exactly.

I wonder why it is that people nitpick these details. Is he real? Is he not?

What does it matter? It was 2,000 years ago. I like what he purported to stand for, or at the very least.....what the writer purportedl he stood for, and I try my best to live in the most upstanding way possible with some of the words and messages that are attributed to him as guidestones. Yes, we all have elders in our lives that we take advice from and try to emulate, but how many self-help books are there floating around that want to do the same thing: Help people figure out life and themselves.

I don't care what book those words were written in or what that book represents. I don't care if he's fictional or was real. I look at the words as they are stripped of all pretense. As they are without a title, an author, an editor, an agenda and a publisher. When you do that, you keep yourself away from the reasons why people put those words where they did, and for what reason. It leaves you unbiased. Being unbiased leaves you more capable of loving and understanding people.

Which is also, ironically, the main message that this Jesus character was trying to get across.

What if all this 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin' discussion, all the time wasted on 'biblical scholarship', all the money wasted on empowering a few and asking for donations from the many (especially if they want to get into heaven), what if all the lies were simply seen for what they so obviously are?

Well, humanity would have to actually deal with reality, then.

What a concept.

originally posted by: schadenfreude
May I suggest to you God haters to readfoxe's book of martyrs ? Then ask yourself why ppl for over two HUNDRED and fifty YEARS would lay their life down for somebody that "never existed". Nine different crusades, spanning from Nero all the way to just before Constantine.

Deny ignorance? Puh-lease.

Extremists of every faith have laid there lives down willingly for what they believe in throughout history, and over long periods of time. That neither makes their belief true, or what they did right. (Oh, and I've read Foxes Book Of Martyr's)

originally posted by: schadenfreude
May I suggest to you God haters to readfoxe's book of martyrs ? Then ask yourself why ppl for over two HUNDRED and fifty YEARS would lay their life down for somebody that "never existed". Nine different crusades, spanning from Nero all the way to just before Constantine.

Deny ignorance? Puh-lease.

Same reason why some would volunteer to have their hearts ripped out of their chest so that they can deliver a message to the Sun God, or give their first born to a priest to be sacrificed or handle snakes with the belief that God will protect them from snake bites despite the fact that their father and even grand father were bitten to death for doing the same...Faith !

The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67
This was the occasion of the first persecution; and the barbarities exercised on the Christians were such as even excited the commiseration of the Romans themselves. Nero even refined upon cruelty, and contrived all manner of punishments for the Christians that the most infernal imagination could design. In particular, he had some sewed up in skins of wild beasts, and then worried by dogs until they expired; and others dressed in shirts made stiff with wax, fixed to axletrees, and set on fire in his gardens, in order to illuminate them. This persecution was general throughout the whole Roman Empire; but it rather increased than diminished the spirit of Christianity. In the course of it, St. Paul and St. Peter were martyred.

The Second Persecution, Under Domitian, A.D. 81

Among the numerous martyrs that suffered during this persecution was Simeon, bishop of Jerusalem, who was crucified; and St. John, who was boiled in oil, and afterward banished to Patmos. Flavia, the daughter of a Roman senator, was likewise banished to Pontus; and a law was made, "That no Christian, once brought before the tribunal, should be exempted from punishment without renouncing his religion."

A variety of fabricated tales were, during this reign, composed in order to injure the Christians. Such was the infatuation of the pagans, that, if famine, pestilence, or earthquakes afflicted any of the Roman provinces, it was laid upon the Christians. These persecutions among the Christians increased the number of informers and many, for the sake of gain, swore away the lives of the innocent.

The Third Persecution, Under Trajan, A.D. 108

In the third persecution Pliny the Second, a man learned and famous, seeing the lamentable slaughter of Christians, and moved therewith to pity, wrote to Trajan, certifying him that there were many thousands of them daily put to death, of which none did any thing contrary to the Roman laws worthy of persecution. "The whole account they gave of their crime or error (whichever it is to be called) amounted only to this-viz. that they were accustomed on a stated day to meet before daylight, and to repeat together a set form of prayer to Christ as a God, and to bind themselves by an obligation-not indeed to commit wickedness; but, on the contrary-never to commit theft, robbery, or adultery, never to falsify their word, never to defraud any man: after which it was their custom to separate, and reassemble to partake in common of a harmless meal."

The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162

Marcus Aurelius, followed about the year of our Lord 161, a man of nature more stern and severe; and, although in study of philosophy and in civil government no less commendable, yet, toward the Christians sharp and fierce; by whom was moved the fourth persecution.

The cruelties used in this persecution were such that many of the spectators shuddered with horror at the sight, and were astonished at the intrepidity of the sufferers. Some of the martyrs were obliged to pass, with their already wounded feet, over thorns, nails, sharp shells, etc. upon their points, others were scourged until their sinews and veins lay bare, and after suffering the most excruciating tortures that could be devised, they were destroyed by the most terrible deaths.

Germanicus, a young man, but a true Christian, being delivered to the wild beasts on account of his faith, behaved with such astonishing courage that several pagans became converts to a faith which inspired such fortitude.

Polycarp, the venerable bishop of Smyrna, hearing that persons were seeking for him, escaped, but was discovered by a child. After feasting the guards who apprehended him, he desired an hour in prayer, which being allowed, he prayed with such fervency, that his guards repented that they had been instrumental in taking him. He was, however, carried before the proconsul, condemned, and burnt in the market place.

The second apology of Justin, upon certain severities, gave Crescens the cynic an opportunity of prejudicing the emperor against the writer of it; upon which Justin, and six of his companions, were apprehended. Being commanded to sacrifice to the pagan idols, they refused, and were condemned to be scourged, and then beheaded; which sentence was executed with all imaginable severity.

Several were beheaded for refusing to sacrifice to the image of Jupiter; in particular Concordus, a deacon of the city of Spolito.

etc etc etc.

Source

a reply to: Klassified

This isn't " a select few" like Jim Jones & his ilk, this all happened within a generation of a person that "supposedly never existed" & it was thousands upon thousands, not a "few nuts".

Thousands of years later, yes a case can be made for FAITH, but when it came to a time of recent memory when one could ask someone, anyone, "Did this guy actually exist, did these things occur? Would these ppl die the most gruesome deaths, on a LARK, or a GUESS? And more than once, more than twice?

I know ppl are stupid, I get that. Look around the world today, see the things ppl take a TRUTH, and it makes me wonder why God died at all, but that ppl would knowingly & gladly give their lives on a MYTH?

Come on, that strains credibility & gullibility.

a reply to: Spider879

based on what I have read, those were prisoners, not ppl of faith that were led to have their hearts ripped out. And they didn't go willingly, they were led in chains.

(I'm speaking of the Aztecs of course, if you were speaking of someone else you'll have to be more specific.)

a reply to: Spider879

Most written work from the Roman Empire would be in the Vatican Archives...
You can guarantee any pertaining to Jesus Of Nazareth would be there...

So unless this guy had access to the V.A I'm guessing he has no clue about anything and is being a no-it-all!!!

a reply to: Spider879

Michael Paulkovich is talking out of his back passage, the christian community was suppressed and practiced in secretive meeting's but to the Roman authority's for at least the first two century's Christians were barely worthy of a mention, remember considerably less than 1 percent of Roman documentation from that time period has survived to the present.

As a sect practiced in secret house churches and caves and actually relatively small in number the Cult as the Roman's would have seen it would have been below there notice and hardly worth mention, they also suppressed jewish religion after the siccari uprising, especially among there Judean slave's.

Go and have a look at the history of the Syriac Orthodox Church, delve and you will find it enlightening, today they are split into two sect's only one of which actually has a strong following and that one being one that allied with the Catholic church as there catachysm's were essentially the same but more because they had animosity with the orthodox greek church over several interpretations.

Who are they, well they were never part of the conclave of Nicenea, so there traditional Mass is celebrated in Arameic, what is Arameic, it is both a spoken and written language that was the common tongue of the middle east at the time of the Roman occupation.

Why do they hold there catachysm and mass in Arameic, they believe and are supported by strong evidence that they are the descendants of the jewish christian's that is the original Messianic jew's and they were founded by the other apostles not peter or paul, specifically they were founded by the apostle Thomas.

They remained fiercely protective of there catachysm and did not pollute it with the less christian (as they saw them) western and greek orthodox church's.

Of course in a world in which people do not want to believe at worst or think that the illuminate are good guy's and satan is prometheus there is no reasoning with idiots who have this agenda and push there own belief.


One after thought,
Jesus said what profit a man even if he gain the whole world but loses his soul.
If for instance a devil or a representative of him was to say give me your soul and I will give you a wonderful life but if you don't you will have a bad life, well here is an interpretation, the soul once given is devoured for it's energy and perhap's turned into a slave like an infection or drained life hungry thing sent out to seen another victim, the life which is then lived is actually lived by the devil and he/it is the one that has the supposed good life, think about it.

There are those who claim the devil gave man knowledge and is the good guy, they claim that we worship the one who want's to keep us ignorant but they are so far from the truth and so twisted it is truly tragic and they are the blind leading the blind into the abyss.

If the universe was created then God created it, if it had an architect that architect was God not Lucifer but today the believers in the lies spun by the enemy's of christianity (and immortality) are trying to bring the house they themselves live in down, nature hates a vaccuum, what are they goind to replace it with, a false religion spun by a child molesting rapist is the alternative as they will not win without our faith and they will fall under that religion rather than the true one they hate so much.

I am that I am - God's reply from the angel of the burning bush to Moses who asked who are you lord.
Now let's get a little boolean,
If I am then I am not not but if I am and am not then I am not, simple, a house divided can not stand.
United in God, united in christ one house I am that I am my soul is in my Lord it's true source.

The one that want's you not to believe and want's you dead or not to be is the devil so his knowledge you would have anyway but he want's to steal your knowledge as your soul is the breath of life from God.

One must realise that the writings of that period (the dead sea scrolls) were written about 20 to 30 years after the supposed death of Jesus yet make no mention of him. Now the scrolls were written in the area that Jesus was supposed to have lived his life, not another country. Yet if a man was going around the area performing miracles and had a mass of followers proclaiming him the Messiah do you not think that in all probability he would have got just a little mention? The biggest reason to assume he did not exist that the writings of his life and miracles were written, not by his contemparies(though the established religions would like you to believe it) but by people who heard the stories sometimes second and third hand. Now try to imagine what that would be like then. Today with modern communications try to write a story about an obscure man who lived a hundred years ago, down to the minute detail of where he sat who he talked to, what he did and when. If you want more information just look at the lengths the Israelis and Christian historians are ripping up the holy land to prove the bible stories(old and new testament) are true. After 2000 years actual evidence of a man called Jesus!!NIL!!!

originally posted by: schadenfreude
a reply to: Spider879

based on what I have read, those were prisoners, not ppl of faith that were led to have their hearts ripped out. And they didn't go willingly, they were led in chains.

(I'm speaking of the Aztecs of course, if you were speaking of someone else you'll have to be more specific.)

Both the Aztec and Maya had volunteers and non volunteers

The ancient Maya of Mexico and Guatemala, for all their knowledge of astronomy, science and math had an insatiable lust for blood. From the very beginnings of their history, Mayans practiced the sacred blood rite of human sacrifice. Whether it was a captured enemy, helpless child, or even a devoted volunteer, the sacrifice was performed to the gods in hopes of rain and a good harvest. To the Maya, blood gave life. This most precious fluid was the greatest gift these people could offer to the gods.

www.examiner.com...
Faith is a very powerful thing but it is not limited to Christian or even religion

It doesn't matter if he existed or not. The message that is said is VERY good. It's just another distraction.. Keep your mind focused. As quantum physics has proven " With enough faith, a man can move mountains". WE are the gods. We are the creators of our own universe.

In my point of view, The Writer should have done much more research before coming to a conclusion like Jesus never existed..I'm sure there is a lot more Artifact of Jesus Christ to be found..
Early image of Jesus without a beard discovered in Spain

I would assume that over the years things have been changed, added, taken away and over exaggerated when it comes to the idea of Jesus. It seems that as time goes on, we've been uncovering that evidence. I'd be willing to bet that no amount of evidence stating anything other than what the Bible says will be enough evidence to sway the thoughts of radical/extremist Christians. I say radical and extremists, because the 'normal' Christians are actually pretty open minded, and will at least listen. They might not believe it, but at least they will openly listen.

I think that the majority of Christians will be in for a rude awakening someday. Because I doubt that he is anything like what people imagine him to be, if he is real. I would be willing to bet that radical/extremist Christians would mistake him for being a terrorist. I mean, he would be from the Middle East.

When the idea of the Bible being over exaggerated or even completely unreal comes up, and the idea of Jesus being different than imaged comes up it always reminds me of the episode of Family Guy where Jesus comes back, and everyone is amazed, and he makes the comment about how people were shorter back then.

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Spider879
'Jesus NEVER existed'/b]

That's not true I just saw Jesus yesterday at Taqueria Mi Pueblo, and he served me dinner.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: Spider879
'Jesus NEVER existed'/b]

That's not true I just saw Jesus yesterday at Taqueria Mi Pueblo, and he served me dinner.

.



That wasn't Jesus....that was "hay-zeus!

a reply to: Spider879
All my life I have sought out the truth. I have found that the mind or brain is limited in every way. It deals with weight and measurement. The scope of what experiences are made through the body's input devices like sight and sound. The problem dealing with Jesus is placing him in a weight and measurement system. Whether he was or wasn't can be debated forever with both sides stating proof. Religion has this same problem of trusting the brain to be all powerful and knowing.

Many eastern faiths seek to put the mind asleep to experience a spiritual nature past weight and measurement. Many who totally trust their mind will say the experiences through meditation are a product of the mind instead of spirit. The power of the spirit using the mind has generated documented impossible control over the physical realm. No one makes these religions so important because they don't try to control the masses but rather teach to control one's self.

If you look at Jesus as one who is spiritual trying to help everyone in self improvement through a spiritual identity instead of man's religion being right, you may find a being from outside this world. One who love and selflessness is the key to gaining what the mind fails to be able to calculate, a life eternal. Why would someone not want love, peace, fellowship and good forever unless they need to be better or right over other people. What harm is there in believing in such good and love sharing it with the world? Even if you were wrong, you would have a better life.

If you can get past the limitations of the mind you may find a spiritual place that is not bound by the weight and measurement system we live in. Our body and brains will die. If we are spiritual beings using a human experience to define who we will be later, than being right is not important but doing right becomes all important. No one can argue the good and love Jesus taught about on how to treat each other. If everyone in the world treated each other with such love and respect, it would be a wonderful world to live in. Religion is what example man has of God but it was created by man's limitations using a brain instead of the spirit. No wonder why God gets such a bad reputation.

Jesus is a spiritual being who walked the earth and now can be inside of our hearts real and alive if you can get past your brain to figure it out. What do you have to loose but a peace and love beyond words that enriches your life and that you very well might of connected with a being past all worldly knowledge and limitations. One that offers a life eternal with others who choose love and selflessness over hate and being self righteous.

I guess some need to disprove a being with such love and the offer to share it forever. I don't personally understand why someone would think this is such a bad thing. I can understand because of relating God and Jesus to man's religion, but they are not that. One needs to seek personally through the heart to find the real thing, a true spiritual being and world past man's ability to fully understand. Maybe then we can find our identity to be a spiritual being who's life goes way past the mind and body.

...Libraries have been burned.

mushrooms...

It's been suggested a number of times in the past that the Council of Nicea created Jesus.

Watch Zeitgeist and see the connection between Jesus and so many before him with the same story! If true then it's an eye opener.