ISIS Jihadi John and Hostages Found by Drones in Raqqa-

originally posted by: wompingdv266
i think this whole isis situation is bs we arnt in that country so we really dont know whats going on just like other places were just showed some pictures and video sculpted to our brain to accept anything they wish to lie about.
a reply to: thesmokingman

Before you type anything else, read through the forums.

ISIS is a big threat to the middle-east as a whole. Its the Arab nations that should show the world they can take care of their own mess. They're always complaining the west is interfering. Well, here ya go! Show some initiative before the rest of the world does the clean up. I know the UAE are involved in the coalition but it really should be the other way around. They should lead and ask others to join if they need it. Where's Iran, Saudi and Egypt in all of this?

The US is still walking the "anti-war" "No boots on the ground" line.

Obama is not going to cross that line and lose support and elections for his party.

I agree with the OP that America should make an attempt for the hostages, but the fact is that any soldier lost on the ground will be ammunition used against the President.

a reply to: EA006

You're kind of arguing my point when you point out
that the United States economy is controlled by England,
and England would collapse without America's war economy.
(So would France , Poland and Germany by my estimation.)
All of the above are interchangeable, it's hegemony.

It honestly makes me laugh that we as a people have turned
Hitler and Stalin into the boogeyman of the 20th century,
but we're now all part of a world wide surveillance
operation that would give the SS or the KGB a wet
dream.

Someone once told me, even though the Allies won,
fascism is the idealogy that really was the victor.
For years I never understood it, When I stand
OUTSIDE a bar to have a cigarette and stare at my beer
inside longingly, when people can't even vote for
their own political idealogy of choice without the
threat of invasion or subversion, when people get
to tell me what words I am ALLOWED to use,
otherwise I might very well lose my job or face criminal charges,
I finally understand what he meant.

It's cliche' but the words that come to mind are Orwellian Dictatiorship

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Quite - Turkey, arguably the most powerful nation in the region who could even give Israel a good smack in the chops has sat idly by while this has been going on right on their doorstep!, although I do understand that Mr Erdogan is an Islamist himself and trying to dismantle the secular Turkish state. so a conflict of interest is obvious.

It's always the West (and by that I mean the USA, UK and France) that has to swoop in to sort the mess out and we get made the villains in the process.

originally posted by: EA006

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Max_TO


Probably just one of those press dumps by the propaganda boys. Give folks something to chew on here there and abroad.

Saving these hostages may be a waste of time considering they would simply get more. All they really need is a few heads to cut off here and there to make a splash.

But anyway look at us now. over 10 years of fighting "terror" with boots on ground and we have a higher level of madness than at any time. The ground we took is lost again.

It beggars belief, but you're right. They will take more hostages, but imagine fora minute the MOD did send the SAS in and one or more was caught? Bigger fish and all that......

There is only one option if you are going to be capture by these guys. Fight until you die or save a round for yourself. Gots to know that going in.

a reply to: Logarock

Aye, but SAS soldiers are expensive (a few million a pop and that' after you find the right candidate) so it isn't the done thing to drop them in somewhere, with no concrete plan and no obvious way of getting out. Especially not on the menu is telling them to "fight to the death or save a round" as most of them will invite their CO to go first...

They may be the best, they may be tough and they may be who you rely on in extreme circumstances, but their not stupid, not suicidal, certainly not expendable and as with all British soldiers, not afraid to tell their Officers where to stick it when given a stupid order.

originally posted by: Thefarmer

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thesmokingman

So, first of all, since when are British special forces running the show?

Since 1815, Captain America.

When the British do regime change, they do it right. Dhofar Rebellion.

Unlike the United Fruit Company and Rumsfeld's Rangers...

Oh; and:

I think that possibly sacrificing a few troops is worth it to possibly save how many hostages?

You first, soldier.

Oh, ok, so this is Britians war? I dont think so friend...By the way, I am not a soldier...

So you are in no position to bleet on about sacrifices then pal

That was avery poor statement in my eyes

You are wrong I have EVERY right to bleet on whatever I want to. Let me tell you something pal....I have several family members in the US armed forces. They will tell you this, THEY have signed up for the military on their own accord....Every last one of them. None of them were forced to go into the military, they chose to. Much like a police officer, or a firefighter, or a construction worker, or a waitress...you get the point? I can and will talk about sacrifices, or whatever the hell I wish to talk about, you got that? Now, do you have anything of relevance to add to the conversation, or are you just here to troll?

a reply to: thesmokingman

I have several family members in the US armed forces.

So what you're saying is, you're willing to sacrifice a few of your relatives?

Bit of an extreme way to win the argument about whose turn it is to wash up tonight, isn't it?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thesmokingman

I have several family members in the US armed forces.

So what you're saying is, you're willing to sacrifice a few of your relatives?

Bit of an extreme way to win the argument about whose turn it is to wash up tonight, isn't it?

If they were serving there...yes..and they would tell you the exact same thing. I guarantee you.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Just buy a dishwasher.

I think it unlikely that any one of us would have to "sacrifice" anything.

Infact, I would bet that if it were made a volunteer mission and the military asked for a show of hands there be no issue what so ever putting together whatever type of operation that the military was looking for, IMHO

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thesmokingman

Just buy a dishwasher.

Your "cute" little euphemisms are not proving any kind of point on your behalf whatsoever. Add something of meaning or leave

originally posted by: Max_TO

I think it unlikely that any one of us would have to "sacrifice" anything.

Infact, I would bet that if it were made a volunteer mission and the military asked for a show of hands there be no issue what so ever putting together whatever type of operation that the military was looking for, IMHO

I agree. No trouble finding enough volunteers at all.

a reply to: EA006
I know, right?? And why are there so many British people on American news medias??

I would think the second "ISIS" was found, that TPTB would send in special forces and try and rescue the agents...I mean actors,,,AHEM! I mean hostages. It's almost like all this stuff is made up or something. This stuff just gets weirder and weirder. I don't even know what to think anymore.

originally posted by: Fylgje
a reply to: EA006
I know, right?? And why are there so many British people on American news medias??

I would think the second "ISIS" was found, that TPTB would send in special forces and try and rescue the agents...I mean actors,,,AHEM! I mean hostages. It's almost like all this stuff is made up or something. This stuff just gets weirder and weirder. I don't even know what to think anymore.

Exactly. The US doesnt want this terror marriage to end...after all, their goal in the first place is to get Assad out of power.

a reply to: thesmokingman

remove assad? no, that would be too simple and ineffective, the real goal being destabilization has already been accomplished, why set up puppets when you can weaken and distract potential enemies or allies to such enemies without lifting a finger, better to destabilize them and deny them access to resources and development right now to keep them from being a possible threat to your interests in the future when such resources will become useless and such developments in capabilities and technology will be the only thing that matters in war and economics.

call it preparation for a greater future war to conquer and control the whole region, i mean why fight a strong and united middle east when a divided and weak one would be much easier to control in the future environment, same with central america and africa..

all those puppets we've set up in the past were failures for a reason, to try and create instability and civil disorder instead of establishing control, same thing with assisting cartels and setting up an environment friendly to organized crime, extremism and drug trade globally. no need to win wars when you can just trick everyone else into fighting amongst themselves and keeping them too weak and distracted to be a significant threat until your own strength becomes too great to overcome.

What are they waiting for? ISIS may have additional hostages and while it would be a tradgedy if they were killed by an airstike, Jihadi John and his cronies have earned it.

I'm of the mind the hostages were killed months ago and the videos are being released as propaganda. There's a chance there aren't any hostages at the location, doubtful but still possible. I also have a hard time believing any of the hostages are press...

I really hate saying it, but they may be a necessary sacrifice.

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: EA006

originally posted by: thesmokingman
Top brass say that ISIS defenses are too strong? These "top brass" need to be fired immediately! If they think ISIS is too strong, then I am worried when a real war breaks out...you know, against a real country and real troops, with real equipment? This is all such BS. The jig is almost up guys

Special forces rely on stealth. Any incursion would be expected. Sacrificing SAS troops is a non option.
Remember the U.S already failed in a similar op.

Fair point, however I think that possibly sacrificing a few troops is worth it to possibly save how many hostages? I mean seriously, how STRONG is ISIS compared to like, 40 countries and all their tech/weapons? Kind of like chess, sometimes you must sacrifice a couple pawns to take down the king.

Yeah, the fact that you refer to marching people to their deaths as something simple as getting a few pawns picked off in chess leads me to believe that you're a sociopath.