The devil you know...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

None of us deserve "God's" grace? "God" doesn't deserve to be considered all powerful. I'm not going to live my life wondering whether or not I'm doing good or bad things as if I'm going to get coal or a present on the day of the "rapture". It's all ridiculous and a waste of time and precious life to seriously consider religion and the bible or any other religious book as a source of real information. Maybe that's what is wrong with this country. Too many feeble minds. You can easily accept the Bible, so why not believe everything the Gov says. I'm thankful for the internet as it's allowed me to break out of that sick cycle of closed-mindedness and ignorance towards knowledge.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I was refering to the Roman government as well. Nicaea means victory and the Roman government won during that and proceeding councils. The Roman government was corrupt just like ours, they would never legalize the truth.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I was refering to the Roman government as well. Nicaea means victory and the Roman government won during that and proceeding councils. The Roman government was corrupt just like ours, they would never legalize the truth.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Murgatroid

I was refering to the Roman government as well. Nicaea means victory and the Roman government won during that and proceeding councils. The Roman government was corrupt just like ours, they would never legalize the truth.

Indeed. Nicea was the first seal, Constantine the Great was the mounted archer who having conquered went to battle to further conquer supposedly under a standard carrying the symbol of the cross. His "In hoc est signo vinces" becomes "ἐν τούτῳ νίκα" in Greek. Now the underlined word there is "Nika" (2 pers. sing. pres. imperf.) which is a form of 'Nike' which means "Victory" and is the name of the Greek goddess of victory and conquering, as reflected in her Roman name, Victoria. In the House of the Roman Senate, the Curia (the highest authority in the Roman Empire), there was an altar for goddess Victoria. This Roman Curia is now the highest authority in the Catholic Church. Go figure....

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Ever since I started turning pages in the Apocalypse and the Torah and tried to figure out the prophets, ..........................................

What do you guys think?

You are reading into the scriptures what isn't there.The book of Revelation is ONLY about the "unveiling(apocalypse) of Yahoshua .(.the creator God is salvation/deliverance) which is written in "signs"...... it is NOT preidctions or prophecys of past, present or future historical events or any other person so all of your speculations and presumptions are false.

a reply to: Rex282

And who taught you that BS?

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. [ESV] Revelation 22:10

Not a prophecy ey?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's all in the symbolism, they like to hide the truth right in front of us.

originally posted by: InfinityandBeyond
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

None of us deserve "God's" grace?

Well, that's the mantra of the wise....

"God" doesn't deserve to be considered all powerful.

Fair enough I suppose. I honestly don't think he cares what people think of him. After all he is the entity whose thoughts is the universe, connecting with us through his Nous, his Spirit, the Soul Connection, some kind of inter-dimensional data transfer protocol that links life all over the universe with all kinds of entities, good and bad. A human being is top notch technology, all life we know is. But there's a controversy over who or what produced it. A super-human designer, or simply time and random chance. That's the two main fronts in the battle of sense, but everything is totally screwed up, since the ones who believe in a creator often condemn science, while most men of science condemn the idea of a God.

What if we rather sat back and did the math here. What is the chance life as we know it would evolve into what we see in nature and stuff like dinosaurs and the fossil records (dragons oooh), and see how yes indeed the few millennia leading up to the birth of civilisation there were massive cataclysmic floods all over the world as a direct result of the receding glaciers that for an aeon covered much of the Earth's surface binding up much of the Earth's water supply. Over as apsn of about 10000 years, sea levels rose by 120 meters (360 feet). For comparison, the average depth of the North Sea (the sea between Norway and the British Isles) is 95 meters.

What if the right path is something in between? Covering both camps.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's all in the symbolism, they like to hide the truth right in front of us.

Indeed, you will see the hierarchical patterns of the Dragon and the Beast all over society and the world, because it is the system of respect, force and justice we have based our societies upon, it's Christianity's gargoyles, the governments' most precious mechanisms and devises to counter violence and crime and a satan to set up against threats.

The Roman trademark strategy, 'divide and conquer', implies plenty of mimicking and deception, the Romans and their successors were and are experts in shaping and manipulating the masses, and religion makes the masses predictable, and that is the prime function of Religion and the Moral Law. The Dragons (and/or Angels) are Police and Armies. Hell and the Lake of Fire is the state of War or Marshal Law, the Beast is Royalty and Government, and the False Prophet is the juridical process of developing verdicts and claiming scenarios and reaching different juridical conclusions and sentencing based on suspicion and evidence even circumstantial evidence and indicia, in short, the current System of Justice.

However. I find these systems obsolete and inaccurate, we should rather record and analyse all brain activity of all humans, and have a gigantic self aware A.I. super computer analysing, flashing bulbs and ringing bells when things get out of hand, allowing society to counter, or enabling force or interference where and when it is needed. A bit like the marriage between Truman Show, Transcendence, Equilibrium and Minority Report. It may seem like a nightmare, but this is basically reality and the way things work even today. Only most people die before they learn anything about it. And dead people don't talk much in the realm of the living and even less in the realm of the mortals.

There are plenty of dilemmas and problems with such an idea and scenario and being aware of it, well, few remain entirely sane, but it is still as familiar as law and moral or common sense if your mind's locks are turned, for all the data is out there, huge data, humans already emit everything they think, say and do, humans are basically broadcasting it's consciousness constantly. Truth. By gathering and working with this vast amount of data, tracking all human activity in real time, we can predict and eliminate most crimes and all kinds of abuses and violence long before it actually happens. If you allow yourself to believe it, this age has already come and has in fact always been like this, it sort of explains the street full of "human trees", the house riddled with ghosts, the prophet's dreams and predictions... People just generally don't believe in it, it's too far off. Reality, my friend, can be a weird and terrifying thing. Reality is so weird that we have to add sense to it in order to make sense of it

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Rex282

And who taught you that BS?

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. [ESV] Revelation 22:10

Not a prophecy ey?

No one taught me anything about the creator God ,it is common reason.Read the words "I" wrote not the BS (Belief System ) "you" want to believe.I said the book of Revelation is NOT "prophecies" of past,present or future HISTORICAL events.A prophecy is the creator God communicating to man it is NOT the mystical spiritualism religious "acts" of religious and mystical fantasy predictions of history and speculations you are postulating.

In Revelation it clearly states YAHOSHUA is the "testimony" of the spirit(Life) of prophecy.EVERYTHING in the book of Revelation(and all of the scriptures) is a testimony that "testifies" of Yahoshua...(the creator God IS salvation/deliverance from Hades..the realm of death and imperception) period..end of story..that's all she wrote.All of the religious mystic spiritual postulation is mere speculation about nothing and is fodder for foolishness.

There is no "historical event "the great tribulation" or the apocalypse or the battle of Armageddon or the eternal punishment of hell in the" lake of fire"..etc etc....It is ALL the vain imaginations of the religious carnal mind(satan ..the adversary) of man.The creator God is under no compulsion to reveal everything or even anything about how "reality" works it would be futile and vain to do so because no one could understand it OR could do anything about it nor would it matter if they tried.

Your predictions and postulations are meaningless.You are incorrect about EVERYTHING..not one thought you have wrote is even remotely correct because it is ALL based in your BS religion.You could not even understand my very simple and direct statement with out imposing your false belief on it then try to mock me.

I am not condemning or mocking you I am simply pointing out your abundance of ignorance about the creator God and reality.The dagger is in your hand and you keep jabbing your head and acting like it's sensible.I'll state it again so there should be no confusion...The scriptures has one purpose... it is a testimony that testifies of Yahoshua....nothing more.It is NOT a method manual of life, it is NOT the word of the creator God, it is NOT anything to do with religion it is a testimony.If you try to read your BS religion into it that is all you will get (and you have).

The fact is you will continue to postulate and push your religious mystic theories because that is your nature and character(your name).... to NOT know the Truth.You were wrong when you believed mainstream Christianity you are wrong now when you believe Utnapisjtim religious mysticism and you will be wrong when you believe ANYTHING because that is the devil(satan..the adversary..your religious carnal mind) you know...YOU.

Fortunately for you ....you will not always be like that.Unfortunately you will be for the rest of your life in this realm/age(the material realm) and in the next realm/age(the realm of death).Mans religious nature has to be burned out of them with fire that has nothing to do with matter.Then the God you so fervently and fanatically believe in will die, most likely a very slow and painful death.Religion is the true hell and no-body gets out alive ....but the person does.

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Rex282

And who taught you that BS?

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. [ESV] Revelation 22:10

Not a prophecy ey?

No one taught me anything about the creator God ,it is common reason.Read the words "I" wrote not the BS (Belief System ) "you" want to believe.I said the book of Revelation is NOT "prophecies" of past,present or future HISTORICAL events.A prophecy is the creator God communicating to man it is NOT the mystical spiritualism religious "acts" of religious and mystical fantasy predictions of history and speculations you are postulating.

What part of "the prophecy of this book" is it that makes the book ' NOT "prophecies" of past,present or future HISTORICAL events ' (sic.)?

Prophecy or prediction is well within the limits of sense. When the leaves fall from the trees, it's normally getting colder. Autumn and winter is typically approaching. Chances are I will die or be injured if I run out in the street without looking around. Based on an analyse of 'things that be' we moderate or adjust ourselves, in order not to die or injure ourselves, or making fools out of ourselves. We eat food since we know we will suffer and eventually die if we don't. If life on Earth was unable to predict the future and the outcome of different scenarios, we would be extinct, or rather, we wouldn't have existed in the first place.

In Revelation it clearly states YAHOSHUA

This is where you loose me with your strange spellings and grammar. Yahoshua. Oh dear. You complicate things too much. At the time of Jesus the languages spoken by the Jews were Syriac Aramaic, Koine Greek and Vulgar Latin. Yahoshua is at best some archaic spelling of the name on question with vocalisation that looks somewhat like pre-exilic Classical Hebrew (which was spoken and written around the time of King David). It's like using mediaeval spelling and grammar in modern English. I'd love to hear your explanation behind using your spelling instead of Yeshua or Jesus.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
The second beast comes up from 'the Land', has two horns and speaks like a dragon. Now that makes me think about a certain OT prophet by the name of Micah, who said the following:

When the Assyrian comes into our land and treads in our palaces, then we will raise against him seven shepherds and eight princes of men [ESV] Micah 5:5

It also makes me think about Isaiah who promoted Cyrus the Great as God's Messiah and Shepherd, who would rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple and bring peace from the enemies of the Israelites, the classical messianic characteristics or properties:

[The LORD] who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd,
and he shall fulfill all my purpose’;
saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’
and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”
Thus says the LORD to his anointed (U: lit. "to his Messiah"),
to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped,
to subdue nations before him
and to loose the belts of kings, [ESV] Isaiah 44:28f

And Isaiah goes to great lengths in proving and supporting the Persian emperor Cyrus the Great as the promised Messiah.

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Ever since I started turning pages in the Apocalypse and the Torah and tried to figure out the prophets, ..........................................

What do you guys think?

You are reading into the scriptures what isn't there.The book of Revelation is ONLY about the "unveiling(apocalypse) of Yahoshua .(.the creator God is salvation/deliverance) which is written in "signs"...... it is NOT preidctions or prophecys of past, present or future historical events or any other person so all of your speculations and presumptions are false.

The book of Revelation is just that, the revelation of what really is all about. Is up to us as individuals to grasp what the scriptures tell us. Now to tell that the book is "ONLY" about unveiling is a wrong statement. We cannot hold what we know as absolute (there is only one Absolute). No speculation and/or presumptions are false, until proved wrong. They are just that.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well, supposedly in the story, Moses supposedly had gained a glow on his face, and also looking at the Michelangelo statue of him is the result of his interpretation of the story. Having two glowing horns on his head, which kind of give him that Pan or Saytr look from Greece. Supposedly the Hebrew word for exodus meant "Horn", or "Irradiation" which is kind of interesting.

Anyways, I doubt this had anything to do with the original depictions, of Lucifer being in the bible since that character was originally appeared to be an angel and is a separate entity that has nothing to do with the story of Moses . Not the hulking behemoth of a beast that walks on hind legs, with a trident, a tail, and is red with anger. This common modern depiction of the Devil is actually said to be a way of mocking the Devil.

It just like Jesus, saying he the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, making those three different figures, as separate as they are him all in one.

Next thing you we will see him in hell, below the Earth...Which in other so called traditions, was considered Heaven.

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well, supposedly in the story, Moses supposedly had gained a glow on his face, and also looking at the Michelangelo statue of him is the result of his interpretation of the story. Having two glowing horns on his head, which kind of give him that Pan or Saytr look from Greece. Supposedly the Hebrew word for exodus meant "Horn", or "Irradiation" which is kind of interesting.

Anyways, I doubt this had anything to do with the original depictions, of Lucifer being in the bible since that character was originally appeared to be an angel and is a separate entity that has nothing to do with the story of Moses . Not the hulking behemoth of a beast that walks on hind legs, with a trident, a tail, and is red with anger. This common modern depiction of the Devil is actually said to be a way of mocking the Devil.

Makes sense. In Latin language of the Pope, horn is cornus, as in Eng. corner or unicorn. Now, let's say, how many corners are there in an extruded pentagon, like say, how many corners does the Pentagon Building have? It comes in an inner ten horns and an outer ten horns. Now where have I seen such a thing? Then you have the ten strategoi of ancient Greece, Leviathan with it's ten horns, ten FEMA sectors, ten imperial circles, this is all over the place. It's systematic. Deliberate. Necessary evils in the eras until our days, at least we have a slim chance of getting out of this century with stuff like water and air and other species.

When there is a war, you don't draft the Salvation Army, you arm your finest princes and muster their divisions and armies and sign off the golems and the serpents and build a strategy. To battle crime, society has police. Complete with badge in the forehead, gun in his right hand. I mean isn't it rather obvious? Rather Dinsneyish don't you think? Hell is War. War is Hell. And by all means, in war, your armies must not lose. Stakes are at the peak extremes of what politics and religion with all their best technology. That, my friend is the "great mystery" of the beasts and Hell (and of course there is plenty, PLEEEENTY more). Churches and hierarchies... But generally the State of War is the Lake of Fire. The smell of gunpowder and semtex, blood soaked mud, torture, screaming agony, napalm and rotting flesh scattered across. Francis Bacon associates it with fire and brimstone (whatever that is) in his KJV. I call it the smell of modern warfare. Hell. Lake of Fire.

It just like Jesus, saying he the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, making those three different figures, as separate as they are him all in one.

Quick look back to errors in Bibles and forgeries, do a search for 'Comma Johanneum' in google or on wikipedia, you'd be amazed to see the Trinity is all based on a doctrinal passage, almost a whole paragraph, doctored or forged into John's 1st letter, which if it was true would have been the only scriptural support for the Trinity Doctrine (which has no foundation what so ever) which is all in all a silly pervasion of a certain passage in the gospel where Jesus explains Hebrew naming traditions. If you ask me, Trinity is unheard of, a devil's thorn in the side of the Church.

This is what the Bible has to say about Father, Son and Spirit. In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus says to baptise people and rename them in the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost. Now Naming people according to Hebrew traditions is just that, what Jesus speaks of how he was named 'Jeshuah bar Joshef'. Joseph is his #1 Father. Jesus is his #2 Son, and holding them together is the magical word bar or bat with females as far as I remember it means "son/daughter of" and also "created by" or "fathered by", the magic word #3 the Spirit. Blood is thicker than water, there is a powerful yet invisible bond in blood. And with John the baptist and Jesus, also water. They basically turned water into what blood was.

Next thing you we will see him in hell, below the Earth...Which in other so called traditions, was considered Heaven.

Ehh. OK?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yea, the last part was something I read about byzantine art work I came across once.

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yea, the last part was something I read about byzantine art work I came across once.

There were stories about people going alive to Hades, and there was life down there. Perhaps there still is. Hammering on the pillars of the Earth? I don't know. Hope not. Sounds awful. No, the chained and locked fiery copper serpents underground make up internet's infrastructure and our electricity grid mostly. No need for blind and pale mutants in caves under Hellas. Seeing some of their art, they were nasty buggers, playing gods in their dungeons.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

But generally the State of War is the Lake of Fire. The smell of gunpowder and semtex, blood soaked mud, torture, screaming agony, napalm and rotting flesh scattered across.

Im sure the lake of fire concept only around the story of Jesus, were it was quoted a few times. Im guessing your familiar with "Gehenna" where it was originally a place in Jerusalem where they'd throw pagans or other who'd be considered Gentiles. However, it later changed as they developed to where they'd throw garbage or human waste.

It was a lake of sh*t, and war itself has gotta be sh*t. Shouldn't black powder be black magic? I mean it goes poof, and has the force of a 100 spears if enough made. It scorches things too.

And yes Im kind of familiar with the Ferry man that ferries the living into the Underworld, or at such a time, Hades. Im sure that was also in the story of Hercules, since he has to capture Cerberus for one of the labours.

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

But generally the State of War is the Lake of Fire. The smell of gunpowder and semtex, blood soaked mud, torture, screaming agony, napalm and rotting flesh scattered across.

Im sure the lake of fire concept only around the story of Jesus, were it was quoted a few times. Im guessing your familiar with "Gehenna" where it was originally a place in Jerusalem where they'd throw pagans or other who'd be considered Gentiles. However, it later changed as they developed to where they'd throw garbage or human waste.

Gehenna is a word Jesus used, and you are correct it was basically a place to burn garbage outside Jerusalem's walls. More importantly, it was also where executed criminals were cremated, like Jesus would have been, had not one of the wealthiest men in the Roman Empire suddenly showed up and bought the body. In Revelation we hear of the lake of fire, a place where people follow blind orders and swear allegiance with kings and their armies. The state of war. Ultimately it is the Sun in the sky, Helios, where we will send a probe probably called Leviathan or similar in about a thousand years to study the very physical properties of the Sun itself from under it's skin so to speak.

It was a lake of sh*t, and war itself has gotta be sh*t. Shouldn't black powder be black magic? I mean it goes poof, and has the force of a 100 spears if enough made. It scorches things too.

The word used in Revelation which is translated magic, well it's pharmakeia, pharmaceutics, pills and medications. 'Black magic' is a pervasion of the etymology of 'Alchemy', which is from Arabic 'Al Khemet' which means 'From the Black Land'.

And yes Im kind of familiar with the Ferry man that ferries the living into the Underworld, or at such a time, Hades. Im sure that was also in the story of Hercules, since he has to capture Cerberus for one of the labours.

The ferry-man even shows up in Gilgamesh, bringing the hero safely across the Sea of Death. In Greek stories he brings you along or to the other side of the 'River Styx' which means Hate or Detest. It's an allegory to overcome the hate and detest involved with death and dying. The price of hate is death, and it must be overcome to progress in the afterlife. Or so the story goes anyway. Wonder if he accepts bitcoins.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Now I won't say straight out that the god of Moses was Satan and that Moses himself is the Beast while the minor prophet Micah is the False Prophet

But what if we say that a certain high priest who is also a prophet and who has a history of enmity with Jews who crowned a king of Jerusalem and worships a sacrificed human, crowned with thorns bleeding all over the place that apparently died by a captain's lance and was dead for days and miraculously woke up the third day. Now who could that be? Ah, the Pope of course.

Here's another. In the Torah there is said to be 613 commandments or mitzvot, add "Love eachother" (Jesus), "Eat what what you want" (Peter) and "Do not circumcise your children" (Paul) and you have a total of 616 mitzvot in the Bible. 616 number of the Beast who is a lamb (the Romanised Jesus) with two horns: Paul (Rome) and Peter (Church).

I believe the Apocalypse originally had 616 written where 666 is today. I believe it was changed into 666 and by that very stroke involved all of humanity under the curse of war, since 666 is recorded in our very anatomy and the shape of reality-- all done and doctored by the emerging power structures within the Church and Rome, the False prophet, the Pope. 616 is also the Hebrew gematria value of IESVS Jesus written in Latin. Beast that was killed, IESVS ("The Eighth"). False Prophet, the POPE.