YAHWEH 3 / The Quran is Signed by The Father, Son and Holy Spirit - Jesus Reveals Himself to Islam

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
a reply to: sacgamer25

Anyways, I feel like we moving away from the purpose of this thread. I was clarifying my statement.

If you are discussing the Qur'an in relation to its very clear relation to EL, Elohim, Alah, then you are right on topic. I would not have authored this if I did not firmly believe that God offers us twists to our own preconceived biases. His signature will be in and on everything that might lead us to His ultimate truth. We are all in His family. We are all loved. I love this quote from the Gospel of Philip.

Gospel Philip
"When the pearl is cast down into the mud, it becomes greatly despised, nor if it is anointed with balsam oil will it become more precious. But it always has value in the eyes of its owner. Compare the Sons of God: wherever they may be, they still have value in the eyes of their Father. "

We are all cast down into this mud/clay. It does not diminish the fact we are pearls. What creates a pearl? Irritation of the grain that started the process.

Your point of us all being in one family is correct. The point of the thread was to attempt to show this fact to those who think they hold a positional good.

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
a reply to: romilo

What the Qu'ran says is what the new and old testament said.

What Islam teaches is that the word of God new and old testament were corrupted by men and that the word of God needed to be renewed.

Mohammed was the last prophet to bring back the original word. So the story goes.

This is what Islam teaches but not what the Quran says.

The Quran says we are waiting for an interpretation of the OT and NT and that this interpretation should clarify even the Quran. When the interpretation comes the OT, NT, and the Quran will fit together like a puzzle. And all will see Mohammed was a prophet who spoke the truth.

The dead sea scrolls prove the original message is what we have today in both the OT and NT. So we should conclude that it is only interpretation that will bring enlightenment to the 3 religions and bring them together as one.

Revelation 10
8 The voice which I had heard from heaven spoke to me again. It said, “Take the opened scroll from the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.” 9 I went to the angel and asked him to give me the small scroll. He said to me, “Take it and eat it. It will be bitter in your stomach, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.”

10 I took the small scroll from the angel’s hand and ate it. It was as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, it was bitter in my stomach. 11 The seven thunders told me, “Again you must speak what God has revealed in front of many people, nations, languages, and kings.”

I believe the scroll is the Quran, notice it predicts the scroll will be prophesy spoken to many.

Islam was sweet in the mouth, in the beginning when they were filled with the Holy Spirit, but the religion has faded in the same way it's predecessors have fallen. Bitter in the stomach, wich is where we are close to the end.

Islam was a prophesy on a scroll (Quran) that teaches Jesus Christ as messiah. And includes the message of the internal light, the Holy Spirit.

Islam was sweet in the mouth, beginning, bitter in the stomach, end.

This is what I believe about Revelation.

a reply to: AlephBet

Star & Flag!

I have read the Qur'an in Arabic in its entirety month after month, following the 30-ajiza (30 sections). I have read tafsir commentaries, scholarly explanations, and pseudo-scientific numerology encoding regarding the muqatta'at. I honestly must say, you have presented the most creative and interesting explanation that I have ever encountered!

I often encountered statements similar to:

"These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings."

... and I mostly just left it at that. I figured, since the scholars couldn't figure it out and attribute it to only Allah's knowledge, I wouldn't spend much thought on it myself.



Although I absolutely admire your explanation and conclusions about the muqatta'at, is there any way for you to reconcile your presentation with the following chapter of the Qur'an?

Say, He is Allah; One.
Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute.
He begets not, nor was He begotten,
And there is none co-equal or comparable to Him.
Qur'an 112


Thanks again for an awesome perspective! Peace.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: SlapMonkey

You have mistaken my reply for insult. By showing your bias and condescension to the thread, you have nullified the value you may have gained by taking the seed into your own soil. The verse you quoted, which was the one I indeed referred to, is a parallel to the parable of the sower. The parable of the sower compares the one how listens to the one how hears. Reception of seed is through the senses into the heart. Your heart simply stated its condition as you have clearly disregarded the thread content and supplanted your own pretext. I have provided context. Your pretext blinds your eyes and ears from listening to what is said.

This website has the prime directive of denying ignorance. The main part of that word ignorance is ignoring truth. Am I saying that I hold the ultimate truth. No. All perspectives are valuable if they are seeking truth rather than deny it. Ignorance comes from denying the possibility.

Deny ignorance by examining all truth you can find. The only valuable way to deny my words, if they are untrue, is to show a higher axiom. Your opinion of me is not a context. It's a pretext.

I didn't mistake your reply for anything, I simply asked you a question and then gave a bit of context about myself, then complimented your threads.

Methinks you're looking for something that isn't there, but whatever.

(and FYI, I have examined all "truths" available to me concerning Christianity, and that's why I walked away from it...the definition of "truth" is obviously relative to whomever is using the term. I think we subscribe to different definitions)

And BTW, "ignorance" is not the denial of possibilities, it's the belief that something is true without factual basis, or not knowing information about something. It has nothing to do with "possibilities."

a reply to: sacgamer25

I hold the same hope as you do. The apocalypse will be when we will know. When the truth shall be revealed till then we must hold our faith and be patient.

a reply to: AlephBet

Agreed

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I see the problem. You replied to a response I gave to another user, as if you were the one who I responded to.

originally posted by: Psykotik
Why do you keep posting these stupid threads a reply to: AlephBet

When I replied to your response, I didn't look close enough to the response you replied to, which was from Psykotik.

This happens on ATS all the time. Go back to your reply and follow it back one post. You were throwing your response to me, but replying to a post I made to someone else. Do you see why I responded this way? Look at his post.

Sorry if I misread your reply in relation to his.

a reply to: Sahabi

Although I absolutely admire your explanation and conclusions about the muqatta'at, is there any way for you to reconcile your presentation with the following chapter of the Qur'an?

Say, He is Allah; One.
Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute.
He begets not, nor was He begotten,
And there is none co-equal or comparable to Him.
Qur'an 112

Thanks again for an awesome perspective! Peace.

I am glad you get it. The truth is typically simple once you can see it. You have asked a very loaded question and I am not sure I can help you see the answer. There is a great deal of symbolism that is misappropriated by the presuppositions of current theology. To see most of what the Bible is truly saying, reducing symbolism to root position is necessary.

Sūrat al-Tawḥīd means the refinement, or the purity. Say, He is Allah; One. God's purity is his alone. Compare this to infinity. No matter how much you learn, even if you learn something that has never been know, there is an infinity that just expanded by your one new thought. God is the infinity in all directions. Your discovery, if that were possible, would simply add more to infinity. God holds the whole, where you are not divided from the whole, but a translation of it. This gets into the physics of symmetry. Invariant symmetry in physics cannot change. It is set. What transposes from this symmetry is translational, or simply reading what is set. Compare this to language. Letters and their meaning are set. This does not mean you cannot arrange in a new order, but the building blocks you use are always the same. Law restricts the use.

Words express the bits of information contained within the letter, then you use this archetype to name things. One of the central ideas in the Qur'an and the Bible is that Adam named the animals. What you may not know is that the beasts were the ones entering the ark, which is symbolism for baptism: See My First Reality Spoilers Thread. What is the name that emerges from the letters? I spell Cat and you then picture the image of the animal, but you also see the characteristics of the cat in relation to the dog and so on. There are cascading truths that you see from the archetype of three letters, yet the entire territory of what it is to be a cat expands. CAT is three bits of information that form a greater whole. The Cat itself is not born from the letters, but the letters mirror (image) the thing the word represents. In a furnace, what is being refined? The iron or the fire?

Deuteronomy 4

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

The Iron-smelting furnace is the place of refinement. Jesus pointed to the Father. All other words of Yahweh were examples of a Son of God in the furnace. When Yahweh proclaims that he is the only God with none beside, he is in error. We cannot know the reason, but this is clarified in the New Testament by the life of the Son of God. Knowing that the Son of God is the Lord is the easy part. It's listed in Luke 3.

Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Imagine what this means. After a life of being Yahweh, he is then humbled by his Father on the cross, paying the price for the fall. 2000 years spent at the right hand of God, he is likely getting a further education watching mankind crumble because of the choices he made as the Son of God. Humanity is the body of the Son. The Son is the head.

Begotten is Monogenēs, or only one. Firstborn does not imply he is born yet. Keep that in mind. What is the current material creation we are in presently? Will it pass away? Is it the Mater (Mother), or material world? Yes. What is the water of a mother? A womb. Where is the lamb of God today? The letters of the Father are inserted into the Mother (cosmos), then a refinement process takes place. Birth pangs follow. Creation groans. What is being born?

John 1

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet. Alphabet writes words by sequencing the letters. Aleph Mem is the Hebrew word Mother, or Strong Water. Mem is water, or the womb of creation. Letters (Father) are in the womb producing the form the soul occupies.

Jesus is the first born from the material to the Spirit. We follow as children of God becoming Sons. There is only one at the right hand of God presently.

Say, He is Allah; One.
Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute.
He begets not, nor was He begotten,
And there is none co-equal or comparable to Him.

Jesus said the Father is greater than him. He also said we would do greater things than him in the future. You can look those two verses up. Also, make sure to check on the groaning of creation. It is my belief that Christ rises after three days, or at the end of the week. We are at the end of day six now. A day of rest is the final testing of the Son as he rules humanity. What does he correct in the last 1000 years, possessing a Holy Spirit? His first trial was as Yahweh. He then paid the price of the fall, then sat at the right hand of God for 2000 years. When he returns, 1000 years reveals all things. He rules in righteousness, recognizing the Father who allowed the image of himself in matter.

If we are not to worship the things named (like sun and moon), then where is God? He is the bits of information comprising the whole. The things born are new words. Son of God is the Word born. That's you and that's me and it is all of creation, or God's infinity. His alone. God is one.

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Again, not yet born or complete until we are in the next creation. This is a foreshadowing of what the entire creation becomes.

a reply to: Sahabi

Simply put, can a Father bear children? No, it's the mother. Spirit is the Mother. Consciousness is the linking of information with Reason (nous). That's the simple answer. Here is more of the complicated version if you still want more:

Where is God now, as in his time? Eternity. Where are you? Moving along in a slice of time within a created image. The image translates to a conclusion that produces offspring. What is born from the image that creates a new copy? Letters making words, translated by the ones viewing the image. Being born happens once. Being born again happens many times from a natural mother. Death is a transition toward the last birth of Spirit. God is not matter. His offspring would be Spirit only, which is what Christ becomes as the firstborn over all creation.

Still too complicated?

John 1

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

OR

1 Corinthians 15

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

Like I said, it's hard to describe. It's not a paradox. Letters are Father, or Aleph Bet. Mother is the cup, or womb. The Son is seed, or bread of life. What makes bread? Seed. Bread is simply a body rising in the oven by heat (refinery / trials). Leaven is sin, or what causes the bread to rise. This life is a harvest of seed that you plant later. Becoming a Son of God requires the harvest, or the gathering of seed.

Like I said, there is a great deal of symbolism to know. I'll keep going. Ear is a seed. Heart is a young stag, or deer. In German, Hertz-cor is the word heart and a hertz is a deer, or young stag. In Latin, a Cor is the heart. In Hebrew, the Cor is the a homer, or basket to fill with grain. It's all connected to the Hebrew word for Heart, which is again a young stag, or what is filled (the soil of the heart). How do you become born above? You bear fruit here, developing seed for the ground above. You are not born of God until your young stag becomes a Son. There is a Guardian involved (Galatians 3). A guardian trains the young son to run the harvest for the Father. Typically a trusted family member.

Galatians 3

Children of God

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It's very complicated, yet easy to understand if you have the basics. Read this thread: How Phoenician Reveals Babel

God's seed is natures production and a harvest that allows bread to rise. Conceptually, this is not easy to see. Information is in formed, or formed within. Within whom is the question to my answer.

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: AlephBet

is there any way for you to reconcile your presentation with the following chapter of the Qur'an?

Say, He is Allah; One.
Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute.
He begets not, nor was He begotten,
And there is none co-equal or comparable to Him.
Qur'an 112


Thanks again for an awesome perspective! Peace.

I can answer this.

I believe the Quran is correct, I think begotten is a bad translation in the Bible. I believe the correct interpretation is Unique.

I think thier were some who thought the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary by more human methods, and Mohammed was clearing that up.

Jesus is the messiah in the Quran and in that he is a unique son of God, since none other are given the name Messiah, which means savior.

Here is a link to a site that explains this theory in more details with scripture.

www.biblelessons.com...

a reply to: sacgamer25

Amazing words. Can you get me the passage showing this?

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: sacgamer25

Amazing words. Can you get me the passage showing this?

Try this link, this belief has existed for over 100 years.

bahai-library.com...

a reply to: sacgamer25

Originally posted by sacgamer25
This is what Islam teaches but not what the Quran says.

The Quran says we are waiting for an interpretation of the OT and NT and that this interpretation should clarify even the Quran. When the interpretation comes the OT, NT, and the Quran will fit together like a puzzle. And all will see Mohammed was a prophet who spoke the truth.

The dead sea scrolls prove the original message is what we have today in both the OT and NT. So we should conclude that it is only interpretation that will bring enlightenment to the 3 religions and bring them together as one.

Awesome post…

I actually believe this to be true myself (that Wisdom/knowledge and enlightenment, will bring the 3 religions together one day), but had no idea it was mentioned in the Quran itself… There are many truths, in the Quran which appear to highlight errors, that have been made within standard Christianity IMO.

Once you start to see them, you begin to realize just how things can fit together, to make a better interpretation of OT and NT, just “like a puzzle”, as you were saying above… I believe Jesus even hinted towards this idea of corruption within scripture, with his parable about the wheat (truth) and weeds (lies) becoming mixed in with the truth…

The Quran I believe, is also not without corruptions/errors and inaccurate translations etc.., of its own IMO, but there are certain aspects, which seem to fit together and ring true, in regards to a bigger overall understanding of Jesus and the NT.

I share your opinion though, in that there are certain truths found within the Quran, which help to clear up many discrepancies/errors found, within standard Christianity.

Just out of curiosity though, where are those verses found within the Quran, about a coming interpretation of OT/NT…? and what or who according to the Quran, is going to bring in this interpretation/understanding of the OT and NT…?

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

I posted this link above but here is a link that will go through the scripture in the Quran where this is mentioned.

bahai-library.com...