Global Climate Change is Entirely Man-Made

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: beezzer

This thread was created to honestly discuss the solutions to man-made climate change.

Why are you looking for solutions to something you don't believe in?

Good question.

Part of trying to figure out the mind-set of a demographic requires that I look at not just the questions raised, but the answers that they give as well.

As previously stated, I am surprised and pleased at many of the responses.

They entail common sense, practical solutions. Solutions that people should be involved in, regardless as to whether or not they believe in man-made climate change.

a reply to: beezzer

"My thoughts? Once Global-Climate-Change becomes universally accepted, there will be a call for a global, unifying government."

Dear Beezer, I believe that you have gone down the rabbit hole and finally come out of the other side... Into Bizarro World. Your suggestion is preposterous.

Other than the fevered right wing fringe, global climate change is accepted to be a very serious threat.

Tell me Beezer, are you cutting off our nose to spite our face?

a reply to: CranialSponge

AGW happening or not, we do need to clean up our act either way.

THAT, at least, is something I think we can all agree on.

Therefore, it's a worthy discussion needed to be kept in a thread all on its own.

We do need to clean up our act - no argument there

But, how can there be a solution to a make believe problem?

If climate isn't affected by what we do - what are we fixing?

Pollution is a real problem - it affects health, water, soil, air... We can come up with solutions to pollution problems because pollution is real

:-)

If mankind isn't having an affect on climate - then this is just silly

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: beezzer

"My thoughts? Once Global-Climate-Change becomes universally accepted, there will be a call for a global, unifying government."

Dear Beezer, I believe that you have gone down the rabbit hole and finally come out of the other side... Into Bizarro World. Your suggestion is preposterous.

Other than the fevered right wing fringe, global climate change is accepted to be a very serious threat.

Tell me Beezer, are you cutting off our nose to spite our face?

Not at all.

I may have initiated this discussion with a little hyperbole', but I was looking for answers. Got some good ones.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

If mankind isn't having an affect on climate - then this is just silly

Cleaning up our act means all facets of it, not just the CO2/climate thing.


But I know you're just playing devil's advocate and already knew this.

a reply to: beezzer

Ok...I get it now, although I still feel that looking for a solution to a non-problem is weird, but then so am I.

I think we should be good stewards of the planet we live on. Not polluting because it is, quite simply, the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, with regards to the OP, we do not (see IPCC failures) fully understand all the dynamics involved enough, nor do we have sufficient resources and power to prevent climate change. Might as well declare that we are going to change the rotation of the earth. We do not understand, fully, the ramifications of any attempts we would attempt in order to try to establish a balance to eliminate climate change.

Do we really understand what would be the affects should we make an attempt to prevent climate change? We have the ability to accelerate it to a small degree (3%...1.5% if we are honest) to the negative barring the use of nuclear weapons on a large scale.

As stated earlier, climate change has been with us, before us, and will be after us, regardless of what we do or dont do.

Personally I do not believe we have the wisdom, the knowledge nor the ability to prevent climate change.

As an example of good deeds gone awry I would point out California's previous and ignorant attempts to be "one with nature" by not cleaning up dead underbrush. A couple of years of that caused a huge fire hazard (duh!) which was promptly taken advantage of by nature. There are numerous cases where we intended good, but screwed the pooch simply due to the law of unintended consequences. We simply do not know enough, have enough wisdom, to even pretend to screw around with mother nature.

a reply to: beezzer

Solutions that people should be involved in, regardless as to whether or not they believe in man-made climate change.

They would be solutions to problems other than the problem of man made climate change - because climate change isn't a thing

Why not just ask for opinions on how our planet can work at going green - just for the sake of a healthier planet? Why bring climate change into it at all?

:-)

a reply to: CranialSponge

But I know you're just playing devil's advocate and already knew this.

:-)

I'm playing at something - but it's not devil's advocate

...not just the CO2/climate thing.

What CO2 climate thing?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Because there is a vacuum of discussion that doesn't have some sort of agenda attached to it.

That being said, I will treat those, such as yourself, with a little more respect when it comes to debate on man-made climate change.

I may not agree with your reasons for many of your solutions, but I cannot argue with many of the solutions.

a reply to: beezzer

You should just come out of the closet already

:-)

originally posted by: pheonix358

originally posted by: beezzer
This thread was created to honestly discuss the solutions to man-made climate change.

Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

Of course you made it clear Beezer.

I was surprised it went this long without problems.

P

Seconded.

This pool party can only last so long before someone shows up and starts dropping dookies everywhere.

I was amazed it went this far, but not at all surprised it got hijacked into the depths of Dunning-Kruger dementia.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: CranialSponge

But I know you're just playing devil's advocate and already knew this.

:-)

I'm playing at something - but it's not devil's advocate

...not just the CO2/climate thing.

What CO2 climate thing?

Most people meld climate and pollution together into one subject.

You see it all the time when AGW proponents are arguing with non-AGW proponents in ATS (and all over the internet).... attempting to paint non-AGW proponents all under the same label of 'planet killers' and 'planet haters' and 'not caring about our kids futures', etc etc ad nauseum.

They give the opposition no choice but to have to argue apples and oranges.




... and stop poking the hornet's nest.

Haven't you learned anything from beezzer's past mistakes ?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: beezzer

You should just come out of the closet already

:-)

lolz

a reply to: CranialSponge

True enough...I find it dificult to label co2 as a pollutant. It is a requirement for life.

It should be as simple as, we should make every attempt to not pollute because it is the right way to go about things. The problem is, if we take that literally to the extreme our way of living will not persist and there will be, literally, billions of people dying. So it has to be approached with some common sense.


I think that both sides, actually, have good points. We should take the best of both sides and work with that as far as solutions to pollution goes. Man made agw.. well... that's another fairy tale entirely. lol

a reply to: beezzer

You made a noble valiant effort to put the shoe on the other foot and open up some reasonable dialogue here - so I really appreciate that. But I do want to ask you one last question:

As I'm sure you've seen (perhaps even participated in) before - there's a lot of rhetoric out there that those who believe in man-made climate change are just a bunch of authoritarian religious zealots, blindly following the Church of Gore etc, yaddi yadda, and all that.


But based on the responses in this thread (and only the responses in this thread - let's go by some fresh examples for a sec instead of convenient stereotypes)...

And by responses I mean both from those proposing solutions and the attacks you've encountered here - because, well, how dare you even entertain the thought that climate change *might* be man-made, you conservative blasphemer!


Um...Still feel that way? Has your opinion changed at all about which side is actually doing much of the zealoting?


Honest question - just askin'

a reply to: bbracken677

I think that both sides, actually, have good points. We should take the best of both sides and work with that as far as solutions to pollution goes.

Agreed.

Now if only we could give the boot to the bastard politicians who can't keep themselves from inventing non-solutions, real people with real solutions might actually be able to make some real progress.

originally posted by: mc_squared

Um...Still feel that way? Has your opinion changed at all about which side is actually doing much of the zealoting?

Honest question - just askin'

My core opinions haven't changed, but my understanding has grown.

Maybe more people should argue both sides of a debate.

It's illuminating.

originally posted by: arrow60
Your a handsome man.

I know.

I actually have that on my resume'.

lol... good one. At any rate, one's cognizant that in order for the NWO to occur, "they" must eliminate a majority of the unnecessary (alluded to by Henry Kissinger, etc.) "eaters".