Global Climate Change is Entirely Man-Made

a reply to: beezzer

Yes it does matter. Do you want a group with unchecked power telling every person on the planet what they can and can not do based on what they claim is in the best interest of the planet? You're telling me you don't see what that could lead to? Power corrupts....absolute power absolutely corrupts. Or it could be inept to preform it's job and just siphon the funding and get nothing done. I think humanity could be in just as great of danger for an all powerful 'enviro-government'....

Where are all of the solutions?

This is kind of bumming me out, to be honest.

I at least thought that there'd be viable solutions.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Well, India and China have a valid complaint. Seeing as how the US, and to a lesser degree Western Europe, have emitted about 75% of the total green house gasses over the last 150 years or so and are unwilling to drastically cut back on their emissions while insisting that India and China do, they have a valid point.

But wait.

The U.S. *IS* doing something.....
Obama administration unveils controversial emissions cap on power plants

Obama Offers Climate Change Help to Other Nations

a reply to: beezzer

The solution is happening, people are becoming informed making better choices from foods to purchases based on company practices and ethics. In order to change the world one must start with themselves. It takes commitment and that is something many people don't have. Stop supporting the system you want to change and it will have to change.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Sacrifices have to be made in order for humanity to survive.

But I'm open to any other suggestions. . . .

a reply to: beezzer

Yes individually sacrifices must be made, but it is a choice for the individual. Humanity will survive no matter what, in what form that is another question all together. I don't think there is an immediate risk to humanity maybe a future risk if we can not teach our children to be better stewards of our planet. I am doing my part educating mine in better ways of living and learning the tune of nature. Be the change you want Beezzer, be the change.

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: beezzer

The solution is happening, people are becoming informed making better choices from foods to purchases based on company practices and ethics. In order to change the world one must start with themselves. It takes commitment and that is something many people don't have. Stop supporting the system you want to change and it will have to change.

A legitimate and practical answer.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Sacrifices have to be made in order for humanity to survive.

But I'm open to any other suggestions. . . .

Hear that. We have so much more to worry about in the near term. Global warming is on the billboards, but what we are allowing to happen to our brothers and sisters in the immediate world, is going to be our demise long before the climate kills us. We need to re-define what humanity is all about. We need to care about those not fortunate enough to have any of the pleasures of life that many of us enjoy. The balance is like a rock and a feather.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Sacrifices have to be made in order for humanity to survive.

But I'm open to any other suggestions. . . .

Survive to do what? Spread our version of governance and economy to interstellar space? Show any potential less advance life forms how to destroy your oceans for profit that only benefits a small percentage of our population. How much can our oceans take, how much warming and acidification till everything in it dies, then what a bump on the stock market?

The earth will take care of itself, the real question is are we worth saving?

originally posted by: LDragonFire
. . . . . the real question is are we worth saving?

Yes.

Maybe?

AGW sounds like "Lighting the Sun" where our leaders tell us that they make the Earth go around the Sun.

The legends (worded in
the ancient tribal hymn)
lie cradled in the seagull's call.
And all the promises they made are ground beneath the sadist's fall.

The poet and the wise man stand behind the gun,
and signal for the crack of dawn.
Light the sun. Light the sun.
Do you believe in the day?
Do you? Believe in the day!
The Dawn Creation of the Kings has begun.
Soft Venus (lonely maiden) brings the ageless one.
Do you believe in the day?
The fading hero has returned to the night
and fully pregnant with the day,
wise men endorse the poet's sight.
Do you believe in the day?
Do you? Believe in the day!

Let me tell you the tales of your life
of your love and the cut of the knife
the tireless oppression, the wisdom instilled
the desire to kill or be killed.
Let me sing of the losers who lie
in the street as the last bus goes by.
The pavements ar empty: the gutters run red
while the fool toasts his god in the sky.
www.azlyrics.com...

God is not only in the sky.

Once the idea is established it can be turned around, that is, AGW is our sin, not natural variation.

Thick as a Brick is one long song, the lyrics are just after 28:30

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Sacrifices have to be made in order for humanity to survive.

But I'm open to any other suggestions. . . .

I am real tired Beez just got back from Miami and cracked open a beer but your topic is interesting and even though I don't feel like tackling my own thread.(too tired) I hope you will look at this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is just my idea of a possible solution in fact I think we conversed about it once before.

In the end it isnt going to be any one solution it will probably be hundreds if not thousands and some will fail miserably that is just life. They may even wind up geoengineering the oceans by adding iron to create algae blooms but I hope it doesn't come to that because there certainly will be unforeseen consequences. That should be a last resort IMO.

As far as carbon tax goes I don't support it nor do I see how it could help if anything it has stifled honest conversation on what could be a huge threat.

Yes I believe AGW is real but I do take the time to read and try to understand the arguments against it because it is one subject that I hope they(scientists) are wrong about and if I ever find compelling evidence that sways my opinion I will be very vocal about it.

When it comes to China and India I don't have a good answer for you but I would like to point out that China has taken some rather large steps in addressing the issue at least vocally and pledging to make changes in the near future even though that isn't monumental by any means at solving the problem it does mean they are aware and I think trying to find solutions that will work and not break them.

I am not a big believer in clean coal but I am looking forward to seeing the results of their efforts. That project has been tried in a few countries but never came to fruition the reasons cited were it wasn't a proven technology that they could justify investing in. So I have my fingers crossed that when the technology is proven (if possible) it will only be a matter of sharing the technology, working out the kinks till other nations pursue such endeavours.

Kudos for having the conversation here even if some took it in a negative direction. We can at least talk about these things at this point even if it is simply theoretical.

originally posted by: beezzer
Where are all of the solutions?

This is kind of bumming me out, to be honest.

I at least thought that there'd be viable solutions.

This is probably a good of a thread as any to post a viable solution.

It is not off-topic, because helping the world in any of it's problems, even environmental, basically boils down to an individual, personal choice.

We are always saying, "When are they going to do something about this?" Well the "they" is you, and the "when" is now.

Some thoughts as to what anyone can do, if you really want to help save this world:

I know there are many organizations out there with the mission to help people in trouble. It can be health, food, shelter, abuse.. countless charities for the human condition... but most are corporations. To me, I could never fully trust corporations because they have agenda's like any other corporation, and personal experience would say that you cannot trust them anymore than you understand how they operate, and how they apply your donations to that end.

Most are very political entities, and well.. let's stop there. I know there are many that do real good, but I believe our options, collectively, can be much more effective by just finding a problem yourself, and trying to fix it.

See someone in need?; help them with anything you can afford.

-You can offer shelter in a crisis.
-You can offer money or food in a crisis.
-You can mentor a child, and give them the ability to find a job in a competitive world that excludes them for any number of reasons. You can give them today's technology, like an iPad, or PC, that helps them break out of an ignorance caused by the absence of ability to otherwise obtain it.

If you look at the backgrounds of some of the greatest achievers in this world, many came from poor families where somehow, someone provided something that helped them break out of an otherwise impossible environment for personal development.

That is why this is not really off topic, because if you want to help solve the biggest problems that this world faces, you need to help enable some of the people that will perhaps solve these problems. Even if they turn out not to be part of the solution, you would have given them a part of the life you enjoy to make their lives better.

If we all just picked one thing we see almost every day, and tried to do something about it... I believe that is the way to help this world at the most fundamental and effective level.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: beezzer

Why isn't the western governments leading the way?

GREED!

The first step is to cure greed. Until you can bring the multinational companies to heel, nothing will change.

It is these entities that simply shift polluting industries to other countries with more lax pollution laws. It is a game they have been playing for decades and it is driven by the desire for obscene profits.

It is a handful of people that generate this wealth for themselves and until they are stopped it will continue. Both China and India could enact tough new laws and production would be shifted to Africa or some other place.

A single world Government would not help at all. It would simply put all of the power in one place where these multinationals could control it with ease.

You are dealing with a primal drive amongst humanity. You need to address this factor first.

Get rid of designed obsolescence, it is the greatest sin that the west commits.

We have the tech, but much of it is suppressed, purchased by big companies to sit on a shelf. That alone should be illegal and in fact is a crime against humanity.

Start with your own country first then worry about the developing nations.

If you really want to do something about CO2, put the trees back in the ground on a massive scale. There is a simple start. A few billion taken away from Military Budgets would go a long way to achieving this.

P

So it seems the only way we're going to save this planet is if we string these GREEDY bastages up for the world to see, saying we ain't going to take it anymore! Isn't it something that probably less than a hundred filthy rich fools are dragging the rest of us 6 billion towards extinction all because for them, there's never enough. And so many of us, yet we stand by and watch these very few do as they please.

If one were to really actually believe man is ruining Earth's climate... how could you then justify using electricity? Driving a car? Riding in a bus? Flying in a plane? That person would just be a big hypocrite. Which I believe America is full of.

I can see China, India, south America, Russia, the Muslim world, all ignoring the 'one world government' just like they ignore the UN, as for the amount of crap humans blow into the atmosphere, Volcanoes, the plant and animal sections of the biosphere all upload a damn sight more crap than humans do.
Just what effect can half of one percent of the atmosphere (CO2) have on the rest? seems people ignore Methane, a gos that hold up to 20 time more heat that CO2.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Honestly, I am all for different forms of energy.

Solar, wind, wave, nuclear. . . etc, you name it, I'll support it if it gets us off depending on foreign oil, or non-renewable resources.

I guess it all goes back to the leaders(political) of any country though.

Even if it were a problem that was going to occur in a matter of days with a viable solution in the corner, I don't see them making the right choices.

On a personal level, if they make a cost-effective electrical car, I'm all over it. I'm big into composting, recycling, and leaving a small usage foot-print.

Despite my somewhat irritating manner, I try to do my part.

It's also nice to see a climate change thread where everyone is getting along.

a reply to: beezzer

It's also nice to see a climate change thread where everyone is getting along.

That's what happens when you're on the right side of history

Welcome

a reply to: beezzer

There's no single cure to this massive problem because of how deeply ingrained it is to our economy - but there are plenty of viable treatments that would lead society back on the road to sustainability:


1.Implement a revenue-neutral carbon tax. This means all income generated through the tax is directly reimbursed to other offsets such as lower income taxes. There is no net effect on the taxpayer or the overall economy, but it still provides a strong incentive for consumers to put their money into something better than fossil fuels.

2. Force banks to offer loans on energy efficient retrofits and renewable energy upgrades at bare-bottom interest rates. This would allow people investing in these projects to automatically turn a profit, because the savings on their monthly energy bills would be higher than the loan payment itself. See more info here.

3. "Slow" the economy down by implementing more vacation time and/or 4 day work weeks. Yes you'll make less money. But the trade off is you have more time to spend with your family and friends, i.e. the things in life that actually matter - instead of breeding a society of materialistic robots obsessed with consumerism and feeding the corporate cash cow, while mindlessly congratulating themselves on the phony "freedom" all their shiny new toys buy them.

4. Walk more. Bike more. Car Pool. Everyone stop wasting their lives stuck in traffic all day. Earlier this year I made the decision to get rid of my car. I now bike to work 20 miles round trip every day and feel great. I've barely lost any time in my commute either. Furthermore between payments, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc I'm also saving $700 a month. Whenever I do need some wheels I can still carpool to work with friends, borrow one, rent, etc. Too many people are conditioned to believe they need a car when they absolutely do not.

5. Eat less meat. Don't have to quit - just put down the triple patty baconator combo every once in a while. Support local farming initiatives and just make statements with your power as a consumer in general.



^All of these items above are significant pieces of the puzzle and none of them are particularly painful. In fact I would say they are all extremely beneficial to our overall health and well-being as individuals and as a society.

We are just conditioned to believe otherwise by all the big business interests who want us to keep shopping, spending, consuming, and mindlessly feeding the beast that makes them richer and richer.

These are the same big business interests, lobbyists, free-market think tanks, etc that are actively trying to convince everyone that man-made global warming is just a big fat hoax - that we should pay no attention to this hippie-dippie crap, and just go back to mindlessly shopping, spending and consuming - because "it's good for our economy".

a reply to: mc_squared

For the most part, sound advice.

But does this do anything on a global scale?

It may be effective locally, but we are talking about other countries who disregard these initiatives.

It's like your house is on fire, but you dowsed the sofa. It may clear the air for a bit, but the house still burns.