Secrets of the ante-diluvian Sages

About 90% of ATS content is directly or indirectly concerned with potential extra-terrestrial contact, the basis and veracity of religion, governments that follow covert agenda, and spiritual and paranormal realities, i'm looking here at the historic basis for much of that as derived from the Mesopotamian perspective, the legacy of the Apkallu sages, i'll quote from two sources, papers on The Uruk List of Kings and Sages and The Antediluvian origins of Evil

Salves (and) bandages: tested (and) checked, which are ready at hand,composed by the ancient apkallus from before the flood, which Enlil-muballit, apkallu of Nippur, bequeathed in Šuruppak

In this case the colophon credentials a human being as the possessor of antediluvian knowledge (i.e., medical recipes). Revealed by primeval apkallù, mediated to the human sage Enlil-muballit, and transmitted, presumably, by means of various copyists to the present possessor

As can be seen above the sages were credited with advanced medical knowledge, indeed the extensive longevity of the Antediluvian Kings in the lists must relate to the fact that they had personal sages, the ancestors of the later scholars, the ummânù, who were the Post-Diluvian advisors and preserved and maintained the earlier teachings.

(if) he does not listen to his sage, his days will be short.

(If) he does not listen to (his) scholar, his land will rebel against him.

The tradition of secret Ante-Diluvian knowledge gave rise to as much speculation in ancient Mesopotamia itself as it does here on ATS, and the common people were given to suspect Demonic origins and evil controlling intent, though that is not reflected in the authorized traditional epics of course, but people will always imagine the worst and be resentful toward seeming privilege.

Favorable days. According to the seven Sages. Duplicate of a tablet from Sippar, Nippur, Babylon, Larsa, Ur, Uruk, and Eridu. The scholars excerpted, selected, and gave it to Nazimuruttash, king of the world.

Each of the exemplars was written by one of the seven sages one after another thereby creating a line of succession for the present tablet that extends back into earliest times.

The claim of this colophon, therefore, is that the tablet of hemerologies over which the ummânù labored goes back to the apkalu and ultimately originated in Eridu, the home city of Ea, an implicit assertion of antediluvian knowledge.

The Hebrew tradition then of seeing this source of knowledge as evil in nature and intent in terms of common misapprehensions, ran with it, producing their own narrative that attempted to displace the earlier traditions, albeit they adopted the exact same methodology of the scholars and the tradition of Ea as the ultimate source, this entirely towards their own ends.

The catalog lists Oannes-Adapa, the first mythological apkallù in the common list of sages of the Uruk list, and credits him with the authorship of the astronomical series Enùma Anu Enlil. It also lists him as the author of another work later in the catalog .

Although the title of this other work is only partially preserved, it is notable that the preserved portion reads “from before the flood.”
Following these first two authors the catalog enumerates many other works and their putative authors.

Two of these are known to be apkallu: one, named Enmeduga , does not have a preserved title, but is known as the third ante-diluvian sage in the common list of sages; another is called a sage but his name is not preserved .The majority of the remaining authors are ummânù

The Hebrews copied the pattern of the Sumerian King lists, replacing Kings with Patriarchs and established their tribal basis through inter-marriage with women of Syriac descent, as that region had the tradition of offspring from the Angelic, thus they didn't just buy into the earlier traditions but married into them also, a system were genealogy was all important.

To find mentioned by name scholars who would be remembered hundreds of years later in the tradition is somewhat remarkable.But it is even more remarkable that these scholars, along with a couple of mythological sages and the god Ea, are placed alongside other, presumably less celebrated scholars, many of whom we know absolutely nothing beyond what this text preserves. This suggests the genealogical relationship to antediluvian sages extended to all scholars as a class

Focusing on the ummânù, the implication of the text is rather clear: the human, post-diluvian scholars are the direct professional descendants of the earlier semi-divine apkallu

The point i'm making then is that the religious systems of today and covert agendas of groups such as the Freemasons are derivative of the methodology of the earlier tradition, but they do not in any way properly represent it, they are distortions and self serving adaptations that chose only those aspects of the paradigm which best suited themselves and are wretched in comparison.

“Incantation. U-Anna, who accomplishes the plans of heaven and earth,U-Anne-dugga, who is endowed with comprehensive understanding, En-medugga, for whom a good destiny has been decreed, Enmegalamma,who was born in a house, Enmebulugga, who grew up in a pasture land,An-Enlilda, the conjurer of the city of Eridu, Utuabzu, who ascended to heaven, the pure purādu-fishes of the sea, the seven of them, the seven sages, who originated in the river, who control the plans of heaven and earth.

The original plan in terms of grand overview for the development of human civilization probably did cater for the fact that the original pristine model would be plundered and plagiarized and be subsequently transmitted in fragmentary and distorted form, but that events would still unfold according to it, the worst of human nature factored in.

During the time that follows this period, nothing new is invented, the original revelation is only transmitted and unfolded In the oral tradition of scholars, their role as mediators between gods and men is indicated by the Akkadian phrase ša pî um-mānī “from the oral tradition of the masters”

The entire corpus of crafts like exorcism, medicine, omen interpretation , ritual lamentation , and astrology consisted of “secrets of the scholars” (ni ṣirti ummānī ), and “secrets of the antediluvian sages” (ni ṣirti apkall ī ).

All texts of traditional Mesopotamian scholarly sciences, both practical and theoretical, were secret documents

All crafts used in royal building and renovation projects was attributed to that of the antediluvian sages.In a Neo-Babylonian building ritual text from Babylon the prayer “When Anu created heaven” is cited, which explicitly says that Ea created these craftsmen in the beginning of time

Of course all things would be seen as coming to fruition and the original vision revived, with the eradication of all inadequate impositions.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

If we follow the mythos of the most ancient societies, then we should really be seeking a pre-enochian global sea faring civilization of reptile sages who lived in harmony with the earth while utilizing advanced techniques for widescale engineering projects. Personally, I break with the old models favoring a new creation. Our powers can call forward anything from the realm of the potential, why would we want to bring forth a form that has already realized itself before? Truly, the liberation that unfolds upon realizing that anything is possible for the vigilant ones is amazing. Living that spirit of freedom firsthand is an end in and of itself.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I love this sort of content. Thanks for sharing.

One thing I have come to learn from all my reading up on this sort of stuff. The truth is not out there, its in us. For every single thing I have learned from ancient texts and sacred mysteries, I have had a precognition of the information in one way or another before coming across it. It is usually these revelations that bring me to the "formal" knowledge in the first place.

The ancient texts were meant for a different time and humanity. Today in age, we are all the best of the best that survived because we followed the teachings set forth and entrusted to us. We are all of royal /divine lineage. Our ancestry is the most noble having already killed or allowed to let die that which was vile.

All we have to do is continue refining the species and its soul.

We will one day be the sphinx man revealed in our totality. In the mean time hear the whispers of the past that speak in the dark places of your ancient soul.

It can be saddening or even frustrating that such things are hidden. Take comfort in that no matter the secret kept, it is about us all and so is never out of our reach. We just need to learn to learn. See how to see. Listen to hearing. Ect. Whisper back...

originally posted by: Kantzveldt

Of course all things would be seen as coming to fruition and the original vision revived, with the eradication of all inadequate impositions.

How do you suppose that is happening or could happen?

Once again, a wonderful thread. You are the only thread author I feel comfortable starring and flagging before I even read it. I haven't been wrong yet.

a reply to: Nechash

In Dilmun representations of the Apkallu they look rather like Turtles, which would correspond with the reptilian sea-farers you think are suggested, and in some sense i'm sure they were, though i think the basis of the tradition pre-dates Sumeria by at least several thousand years and that may have been a case of how to represent reptilians that were capable of crossing the vast expanses of the Celestial waters, going with what you know.



It's more a case of realizing the original vision rather than say reviving Sumerian religion, which was of every person having their place within society according to the best aspects of their nature and qualities and there being a Divine archetype which reflected and represented this, that human society reflects the way of the Heavens and is in harmony with such and the hosts of it.

a reply to: tadaman

That's an essential consideration, that Divine archetypes are manifest and realized though humanity, that spiritual influence of those Divine phenomena can guide and instruct, that you can act on their behalf, for better or for worse of course dependent upon the particular spiritual phenomena manifest, everybody does this but few choose wisely, most don't choose at all.


a reply to: Cuervo

Thanks, history will record that Inanna carried out her threat to return the dead at the expense of the living, that's how everything will be settled, though of course it was Enki that regenerated them all and Enlil that passed spiritual judgement and restoration and Anu that gave the go ahead and Ninshubur that orchestrated the whole affair, in fact the involvement of every Sumerian Deity, but probably best just to blame Inanna...oh and after that the Turtles came back.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Inanna carried out her threat to return the dead at the expense of the living, that's how everything will be settled, though of course it was Enki that regenerated them all and Enlil that passed spiritual judgement and restoration and Anu that gave the go ahead and Ninshubur that orchestrated the whole affair, in fact the involvement of every Sumerian Deity, but probably best just to blame Inanna...oh and after that the Turtles came back.

Show me the poem or source you got that from? You can't - because this whole post is about your own conclusions that don't have to do with facts, but have to do with your version of it all like a fantasy or elaborate story. There is not one source of fact that you mention in all of this. You can spend your time coming up with an elaborate conclusion like a fairy tale while I get to the bottom of the mystery religions and figure out what types of beings occupied antediluvian times.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Kantzveldt

If we follow the mythos of the most ancient societies, then we should really be seeking a pre-enochian global sea faring civilization of reptile sages who lived in harmony with the earth while utilizing advanced techniques for widescale engineering projects. Personally, I break with the old models favoring a new creation. Our powers can call forward anything from the realm of the potential, why would we want to bring forth a form that has already realized itself before? Truly, the liberation that unfolds upon realizing that anything is possible for the vigilant ones is amazing. Living that spirit of freedom firsthand is an end in and of itself.

Your wish is Paul's message:

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Law is the restriction of unity. Order can only come by limit according to thinkers like Pythagoras. Limitation is the house for form. It's the principle of creation that is unity underlying diversity. You are speaking of universal archetypes that arise from unity. YOU are one such universal archetype. There will never be another of you ever, yet you are universal and an individuation from the original. When Paul speaks of the guardian, he is speaking of the one that raises the landowner's son to work the harvest. Once the son is trained, he is the new landowner. Once you are justified, you are no longer under the law (restriction). We think of this as laws like the 10 commandments, but it is broader and wider than this. The restrictions of the Dyad (Duality) is subject and object. It's the knower (you) and the known (God) seeing face to face before he releases you apart from law (restriction).

The gulf of dualism is bridged by the Triad. When Yahweh was Jesus, he received the Father's blessing at baptism (this is my Son...well pleased). He then received the blessing of the Holy Spirit in the form of a Dove of peace. He then becomes the Son of God raised to new life, receiving the crown of the Triad. Monad is Father. Diad is Father / Mother, or creation of the Logos in duality. The Triad comes when a perfect chord is struck. Once that chord is struck, the harmonies of the octaves can be created. Are there restrictions to the intervals of music? Why?

Universal unity must be seen for what it is. A perfect creation. You are one of those perfect creations in the end. Law is removed and no more restriction. Unity is perfected symmetry that needs no improvement.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

bookmarking

a reply to: greyer

Not sure why you should make such baseless accusations toward me, Inanna's threat to return the dead at the expense of the living is well enough known;

If thou openest not the gate to let me enter,
I will break the door, I will wrench the lock,
I will smash the door-posts, I will force the doors.
I will bring up the dead to eat the living.
And the dead will outnumber the living.

Less well known is the Inanna cult Temple of Nippur which stood before the E-Kur of Enil, and the Hymn to the Queen of Nippur in which her capacity to bring back the dead is expressed, she obviously always fancied having a go;

28 To bring back her worshipper from the grave,
29 No one [but she] is able.
30 To bring the dead to life, to ..[.] the pit(?)
31 No one [but she] is able.
32 To give long life to him that hears her,
33 No one [but she] is able.
34 [ . ] .... [...] to act without realizing it,
35 No one [but she] is able.
36 Ištar controls the [..]. regulations of land and peoples.
37 She has brought everything that exists to completion,
38 Has perfected the rites, has achieved mastery of all things.

Perhaps though her role should be understood more as instigator, the cause of the Maiden, the more proper model is that of Marduk son of Enki and his role as first principle of the sages, the crossing of the River of Ordeal was of the cult of Marduk, a metaphor for crossing over the River of Death, and the first evidence for a Hebraic conception of resurrection and judgement is that found in the Book of Daniel, the figure on opposite banks of the river, which was derived from Babylonian understandings and the cult of Marduk.

Enki has named you with the name Id-lu-rugu (i.e. River of the ordeal, an epithet of Asarluḫi) , the sublime course ……. You cleanse the just man like gold, and you hand over the wicked to extinction.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

As usual a beautiful and brilliant read and much enjoyed thread.

As I read about the idea of the turtle-look my mind went back to the time when life crawled out of the sea and onto the land. I cannot help making the link of this concept to thinking about a species undiscovered which links us to the sea rather than the land. We seem to read that the ancients teachers went to the sea every n ight so we would be unlikely to find any fossils unless extroardinarily lucky.

What does intrigue me is that recently a lady professor was conducting experiments to prove the flood by drill samples all over Iraq, whereby she could go back into time. The fact is she has not found anywhere proof of a major or world flood. What she has found though is equally intriguing and perhaps should have been expected - if we take the Egyptian situation in that water channels changed and dried up etc.

She found that there was a regular twice a year flooding and then sporadic flooding - she commented that we need to ask "Which flood: as there were so many. This indicates that the flood myth is incorrect as there would be evidence within her core drills of it.

What I am wondering is whether we have the right translation for the word flood, or is it a very old and accepted translation that has not been questioned before? I appreciate that this myth is found all round the world, but people travelled considerably further than originally thought and with them went their myths etc I am not sure what to make of it.

My I ask if you are doing your thesis on this or whether this is your passion, either way do keep going I am so enjoying y-our threads.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Yes i watched that documentary which was pretty good and they made a great reconstruction of a Sumerian Ark, and as you say Southern Mesopotamia was prone to flooding and there were many, but i think the way the Sumerians used THE flood was to indicate a watershed between the Pre-Dynastic period and received oral tradition of the sages and the Dynastic period and the literary tradition of the scholars.

The turtle was a good symbol to use with regards to the cult of Enki as an amphibian that bridges the divide between the land and the sea, in later times the Apkallu were simply seen as carp but in former times particularly in the South as Turtles, of course they only come onto land to lay their eggs and then they're off again on their vast journeys, Enki employed a Turtle also to save the Universe;

Against Ninurta, Enki fashioned a turtle from the clay of the abzu. Against him he stationed the turtle at an opening, at the gate of the abzu. Enki talked to him near the place of the ambush and brought him to the place where the turtle was. The turtle was able to grab Ninurta's tendon from behind. The hero Ninurta managed to turn back its feet. Enki, as if perplexed, said, 'What is this!' He had the turtle scrape the ground with its claws, had it dig an evil pit. The hero Ninurta fell into it with the turtle. The hero did not know how to get out from ....... The turtle kept on gnawing his feet with its claws

Ninurta and the Turtle

The foremost of the sages as i''ve mentioned was Asur-luhi/Marduk who represented a Celestial axis concerned with the generation of life, the Turtles as Apkallu assist in the establishment of that axis, all classes of Sumerian Priest would circum-navigate that axis as it was represented by the Date Palm at Eridu, so the Turtles had interest in the generation and establishment of life, on a cosmic scale.



I'm not really the sort to go around writing Thesis, i just like magical mystery and intrigue...

Sages might have received higher learning through shamanism with the anunnaki being spirits (not of this planet). It seems that the invention of writing would have hindered their craft, allowing all to have knowledge, that was only known by a specialist few in the past.

a reply to: glend

I think to a considerable extent they understood that relationship to spiritual phenomena, the Anunnaki, was best achieved through identifying such spirits in nature, but the way they went about establishing the Sumerian pantheon was remarkable in that they built upon the earlier localized cults which would have had shamanic basis and established regional distribution of an integrated Pantheon, so for example the Pastoralist Deities within the central plain, serpentine Deities in the Transtigridian region, with Major Deities sch as Enlil and Anu only having one cultic centre, the opposite of what you would expect if the Cities had each developed religious sites independently, so they had an overview and grand design that accommodated what had arisen in the normative manner of spiritual intuition.

To have realized this would have required a group identity of religious experts rather than the individualistic spiritual shaman, an identity that was based on common descent from the semi-Divine Apkallu.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

wretched in comparison.

No doubt. I wonder if Kantzveldt would answer very simply
yes or no? Do you support the recordings, as enough
evidence for a flood worthy of the one we find in
scripture? Not to mention the hundreds of recollections
and accounts by cultures from all around the world?
Just curious.

Snf every time.

Nice song!

originally posted by: greyer

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Inanna carried out her threat to return the dead at the expense of the living, that's how everything will be settled, though of course it was Enki that regenerated them all and Enlil that passed spiritual judgement and restoration and Anu that gave the go ahead and Ninshubur that orchestrated the whole affair, in fact the involvement of every Sumerian Deity, but probably best just to blame Inanna...oh and after that the Turtles came back.

Show me the poem or source you got that from? You can't - because this whole post is about your own conclusions that don't have to do with facts, but have to do with your version of it all like a fantasy or elaborate story. There is not one source of fact that you mention in all of this. You can spend your time coming up with an elaborate conclusion like a fairy tale while I get to the bottom of the mystery religions and figure out what types of beings occupied antediluvian times.

Are you asking the OP to source one of the most well-known texts regarding Inanna? It's not exactly obscure. You can Google it in less than a minute.

Hint: It's with the story about her descending into the Underworld.

Another hint: Quit being so rude. Google works better for nice people.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thanks for your interesting reply. I have retired and now have the time to catch up on the books I have bought over the years to read at this stage of my life. So I will be enjoying the winter between the pages.

Thanks for The flood and the analagy, of course it didn't have to mean literal water. We use metaphors so much in our language it would be irresponsible to assume previous civilisations didn't do the same.

a reply to: randyvs


No...



a reply to: Shiloh7


Of course in all writings they used natural symbolism that could be contemplated upon toward deeper understanding, but also those natural elements in and of themselves have their own intrinsic value and worth and should be celebrated, i would suggest that they are the finest expression of those spiritual qualities, so projecting the Anunnaki into human form makes it's own statement.


a reply to: Cuervo

I guess what is actually required to bring the tradition of the Apkallu and ummānī to fruition is simply good scholarship.

a reply to: Cuervo

Talking from someone quoting the most wicked man in the world? No wonder why you utilized the useless pride of your ego to waste your effort at believing in a lie, but I don't blame your mind for not being able to see past the surface of reality, in that respect I will prevail what is correct - relating an ancient poem to ideology that doesn't have much to do with the real antediluvian mystery. If you knew the truth about the issue I could see you fall to the ground as a result from the state of shock which petrifies you like a bolt of lightening striking you from a distance.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: greyer

Not sure why you should make such baseless accusations toward me, Inanna's threat to return the dead at the expense of the living is well enough known;

If no one said the truth than no one would have any truth to go by. All I meant was that there is not one piece of evidence you relate to your fantasy like comprehension of ancient poetry that doesn't have anything to do with the real antediluvian mystery. You would run away quickly from any piece of real evidence pointing to the antediluvian mystery, not because you don't want to know about it, but because your mind rejects truth, you cannot walk towards the truth and that is correct with anyone who sits inside of their ego, obnoxiously squirming with their subconscious, telling it that it is not there.

originally posted by: greyer
a reply to: Cuervo

Talking from someone quoting the most wicked man in the world? No wonder why you utilized the useless pride of your ego to waste your effort at believing in a lie, but I don't blame your mind for not being able to see past the surface of reality, in that respect I will prevail what is correct - relating an ancient poem to ideology that doesn't have much to do with the real antediluvian mystery. If you knew the truth about the issue I could see you fall to the ground as a result from the state of shock which petrifies you like a bolt of lightening striking you from a distance.

Wow, dude. You take aggressive hyperbole to a whole new level. Bravo.

Now, care to add some substance? You are basically saying that the oldest recorded language, recording the oldest mythology that predates anything in the Christian bible (with the possible exception of Egyptian mythology), is somehow "incorrect" while you, meanwhile, have the "correct" truth?

I doubt anybody who can't find some very basic historical texts can possibly give me a mythological history lesson that would make me "fall to the ground as a result from the state of shock which petrifies you like a bolt of lightening striking you from a distance".

Why would lightning "petrify" a person, anyway?