"It's easy to demonise Putin," – and he's not a Hitler

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: victor7

You`re only good if you defend US world domination, it doesn`t matter what the cost of lives is...

US world domination is the only right religion !

US is a creative and technologically advanced nation. In order to change a regime of like that of Saddam it needs to find different ways of going about doing things without instigating civil wars which not only kill lots of people but also destroy infrastructures of the societies.

I agree with you. The United States has always been most successful when it projects "soft power."

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

All you do is find similarities and because of that make an argument that Putin is just like Hitler.

Where have I ever said that "Putin is just like Hitler?" Nowhere. What I have said is that Putin has used some of the same tactics as Hitler, and you now agree that the tactics are similar.

Where we now disagree is how many more of Hitler's tactics has Putin used beyond the ethnic defense card and annexation by referendum. I strongly suspect that he has made liberal use of false flags and agents provocateurs as well.

As I said, you find a similarity and use it as a pretext to make a comparison between Putin and Hitler and by so try to make it look like both are the same, but you never talk about the differences, because that won`t fit your agenda.

Hitler was grabbing way more land in the run up to WII as an example, and Crimea has a completely different historical ties to Russia as the land grabbed by Hitler. And also Putin didn`t grab the Eastern Ukraine, now did they ?

And how about the tactics done by Kiev during the Ukraine conflict, they have much more similarities to what the Nazi`s did in 20s, 30s and 40s ?

- Reichstag fire - Odessa fire, both used to blame the opponent

- Using Nazi groups to overthrow a government

- Nazi groups in the government

- Using Nazi groups as a security force, done at the maiden protests

- Using Nazi groups to terrorize the population, done in Eastern Ukraine also

- Attacking the East

- Killing ordinary citizens to spread fear, the mass graves are now found and are being examined

- Trying to do ethnic cleansing

- Shelling of cities, which has been designated as been crimes against humanity by the UN after WII

- Encircle cities and don`t allow aid to be send

If you`re so keen in finding parallels between the Ukraine crisis and Nazi Germany why haven't I heard you talk about these similarities ?

Because they don`t fit your anti-Russia,...uhm sorry, anti-Putin agenda of course !

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If you`re so keen in finding parallels between the Ukraine crisis and Nazi Germany why haven't I heard you talk about these similarities ?

You have, but you just refuse to understand how these are parallel and how Putin is doing it.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If you`re so keen in finding parallels between the Ukraine crisis and Nazi Germany why haven't I heard you talk about these similarities ?

You have, but you just refuse to understand how these are parallel and how Putin is doing it.

I also take in the differences in the equation, and that`s what`s needed to keep a balanced view on things.

I don`t have the burden to being biased in these matters, so that gives me room to actual look at the whole picture.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

As I said, you find a similarity and use it as a pretext to make a comparison between Putin and Hitler and by so try to make it look like both are the same, but you never talk about the differences, because that won`t fit your agenda.

On the contrary, I have always acknowledged the differences, but you continue to remain blind to the important similarities.

Hitler was grabbing way more land in the run up to WII as an example, and Crimea has a completely different historical ties to Russia as the land grabbed by Hitler. And also Putin didn`t grab the Eastern Ukraine, now did they ?

Hitler started his campaign in in 1935 by assimilating the Saar Valley. He then supported Fascist troops in the Spanish Civil War. He did not annex Austria until March of 1938. Shortly thereafter, he negotiated the Sudetenland away from Czechoslovakia (using the "ethic ties" ploy) then invaded outright the next year. He claimed to have no choice, blaming British and Jewish war mongers for making the defensive move necessary.

In other words, Putin still has four years to catch up with Hitler's land grab. Hitler didn't seize all of Czechoslovakia all at once. First, he used the "historical ties" (the Sudetenland was formerly part of Prussia) and "ethnic violence" (which his agents provocateurs provided) to take part of it, just as Putin has taken part of Ukraine, citing "historical ties" and "ethnic violence." There is every reason to believe he will come back later to take the rest of Eastern Ukraine, as Hitler eventually seized the rest of Czechoslovakia.

And how about the tactics done by Kiev during the Ukraine conflict, they have much more similarities to what the Nazi`s did in 20s, 30s and 40s ?

Before we get in to this, allow me to point out that the favorite Nazi propaganda tactic was to use certain buzz words over and over again. The top three were "Jew/Jewish," "Bolshevik/Communist" and "War monger." Putin's propagandists use the same tried and true technique. Their favorite buzz words are "Nazi/Fascist," "NATO/Western" and, of course, "war mongers." As an exercise in self-knowledge, you may wish to read what you have posted substituting "Jew" for "Nazi."

- Reichstag fire - Odessa fire, both used to blame the opponent

Exactly! The Reichstag was a "false flag!" That's why so many people suspect that the FSB was behind the Odessa fire, a possibility you absolutely refuse to consider.

- Using Nazi groups to overthrow a government

Putin did that in East Ukraine, remember?



Future Russian "volunteers:"

- Nazi groups in the government

The Nazis banned opposition parties and jailed or murdered opponents. The government in Kyiv is not doing that. In fact, there are eight principle parties and countless smaller ones, as happens in a democratic parliamentary system. The parties include Svoboda, which you continually call "Nazi." There was a Communist party, but it voluntarily disbanded. The majority party is currently Batkivshchyna, or "Fatherland Party," with 19.3% of the electorate, followed by the "Party of Regions" (17.5%), UDAR (9.2%) and, in fourth place, your beloved "Nazi" Svoboda party, with less than 10% of the vote. Hardly a Nazi government. Educate yourself.

- Using Nazi groups as a security force, done at the maiden protests

Exactly the same reason you would put an outlaw motorcycle gang in charge of security at a rock concert. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time.

- Using Nazi groups to terrorize the population, done in Eastern Ukraine also

Must I post this again to rouse your memory?

- Attacking the East

There is nothing wrong with using force against a rebellion, as Putin demonstrated twice in Chechniya.

- Killing ordinary citizens to spread fear, the mass graves are now found and are being examined

We will be finding out who the killers were soon enough. You won't hear about it in the Russian media.

- Trying to do ethnic cleansing

Exactly what I was getting at above:

www.amnesty.org...

www.israelnationalnews.com...

www.osw.waw.pl...

www.mirror.co.uk...

america.aljazeera.com...

www.onislam.net...

I could go on, but if you haven't got the picture by now, you never will.

- Shelling of cities, which has been designated as been crimes against humanity by the UN after WII

Shelling of legitimate military targets is not illegal. Must we now argue about "human shields?"

- Encircle cities and don`t allow aid to be send

But they eventually did allow aid to be delivered, even though Putin refused to cooperate with the Red Cross!

If you`re so keen in finding parallels between the Ukraine crisis and Nazi Germany why haven't I heard you talk about these similarities ?

There, I've talked about them. The similarities don't favor Putin, do they?

Because they don`t fit your anti-Russia,...uhm sorry, anti-Putin agenda of course !

You are the one with a painfully obvious agenda, which relies principally on name calling to achieve.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If you`re so keen in finding parallels between the Ukraine crisis and Nazi Germany why haven't I heard you talk about these similarities ?

You have, but you just refuse to understand how these are parallel and how Putin is doing it.

I also take in the differences in the equation, and that`s what`s needed to keep a balanced view on things.

I don`t have the burden to being biased in these matters, so that gives me room to actual look at the whole picture.

Are you actually claiming to be unbiased? Read the above post and try to make anyone believe that now.

a reply to: DJW001

Oh my, there`s so much wrong with your post I don`t even know where to begin...scratching my head.

- 25 % in a government being right-wing extremist seems more than enough to qualify as Nazi government to me

There is nothing wrong with using force against a rebellion, as Putin demonstrated twice in Chechnya.

So Putin did something good ?

...and governments may use any force necessary to beat down oppression...ok, now I know what you stand for.

We will be finding out who the killers were soon enough. You won't hear about it in the Russian media.

Yes we will hear soon enough if they people of Eastern Ukraine have been killing their own people in Ukrainian hold territory.

Shelling of legitimate military targets is not illegal. Must we now argue about "human shields?"

Still covering up crimes against humanity ?

But they eventually did allow aid to be delivered, even though Putin refused to cooperate with the Red Cross!

So now they were allowed again ?

So what were all the screams about an invasion than ?

I could go on, but if you haven't got the picture by now, you never will.

I got the picture about you reading biased opinion pieces, has it ever occurred to you to having a critical stance to these kinds of pieces or are you just so gullible you take them all in as if it`s nothing ?

Why the faq does Amnesty International taking a political stance ?

And thank you for finally giving me some proof !

Yes, the Crimean Tatars have boycotted the referendum as I said.

And yes, there were Nazi elements threatening people in Crimea as I said.

The Sudetenland was formerly part of Prussia

Nope !

You are the one with a painfully obvious agenda, which relies principally on name calling to achieve.

Yes, I`m of course the one twisting facts and coming up with half truths to paint a certain picture.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Sudetenland was formerly part of Prussia


Nope !

The only thing in your post that is true. My apologies, I made a mistake. The Sudetenland was formerly part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Are you saying that Russia is a Nazi government?

en.wikipedia.org...(political_party)

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Sudetenland was formerly part of Prussia


Nope !

The only thing in your post that is true. My apologies, I made a mistake. The Sudetenland was formerly part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Question ?

How much education does it take to forget facts ?

I`m trying real hard but I can`t seem to forget them.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So Putin did something good ?

Are you criticizing him for his genocidal campaigns in Chechniya? No?

...and governments may use any force necessary to beat down oppression...ok, now I know what you stand for.

No, governments must do what they can to enforce the rule of law. You are the one supporting Putin's Chechen genocide.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Question ?

How much education does it take to forget facts ?

I`m trying real hard but I can`t seem to forget them.

The more information one has, the harder it can be to keep track of. At least I acknowledge when I am wrong.

a reply to: DJW001

I was just talking about Ukraine :

Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government

Today, Svoboda holds a larger chunk of its nation's ministries (nearly a quarter, including the prized defense portfolio) than any other far-right party on the continent.

Source

a reply to: DJW001

At least I acknowledge when I am wrong.

Cool !

Well brace yourself !

That`s nr. 3

Most Crimean Tatars, who comprise 12% of the peninsula’s population, boycotted the ‘referendum on the status of Crimea’ which took place on 16 March 2014.

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I was just talking about Ukraine

Why don't you ever talk about Russia? It has fascists running it, it invades its neighbors, it commits genocide in Chechniya, sponsors rebellion in Ukraine, supports dictators in the Levant, yet you get all bent out of shape because there are for ultra-nationalists in the Kyiv government. Why is that?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
That`s nr. 3

Most Crimean Tatars, who comprise 12% of the peninsula’s population, boycotted the ‘referendum on the status of Crimea’ which took place on 16 March 2014.

Source

Because they were afraid.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I was just talking about Ukraine

Why don't you ever talk about Russia? It has fascists running it, it invades its neighbors, it commits genocide in Chechniya, sponsors rebellion in Ukraine, supports dictators in the Levant, yet you get all bent out of shape because there are for ultra-nationalists in the Kyiv government. Why is that?

Erm....shouldn't that be communist?
Just asking for clarification


Jane

And here`s nr 4

Swastikas and graffiti sprayed on a synagogue in Crimea, local rabbi advises worshippers to stay away from the site,

Source

And nr 5

Ukraine condemns 'direct invasion' as Russian aid convoy crosses border

Source

Nr 6

America’s ‘news’ media do not let the victims of Ukraine’s civil war — the people who are dying and being driven out from the southeastern regions of that country by the new Ukrainian Government — speak, and tell their story.

Very Graphic

a reply to: DJW001

I have looked everywhere to see if the word boycott can also be used as afraid...no conformation yet, but I will keep looking.