Did Cleopatra really kill herself?

Figured this was as good a place as any to ask this question. I had a student tell me today that they had seen a show claiming that Octavian (Agustus the first Imperator of Rome) killed Cleopatra and made it look like a suicide. Has anyone else read anything about this / know of any evidence, etc? Would make an interesting byline to my lesson if it pans out. Thanks in advance.

The "Lone Snakeman" theory has always been problematic. Frankly, I think Hoover had something to do with it, but the evidence has been suppressed.

But seriously folks... I haven't seen this theory advanced before, but it is very intriguing. Kidding aside, I would very much like to see what those with a better grasp of the history and politics of the time than myself have to say.

Is it possible to expose a conspiracy this ancient? Enquiring minds want to know.

jukyu, thanks for posing a fascinating question!

Which Cleopatra? Are not all the wives of Ptolemic Pharoahs called Cleopatra?

The one that became Phaoroh and allied herself with Mark Antony during the Second Triumvarate period of Rome.

I actually remeber seeing something about this, think on Discovery, where they showed her having a snake slipped into her bed by an assassin...Seemed to be all the rage back then, but one wonders why, when the Assasin has gone to all the trouble to get into her room, why doesn't he just give a couple of stabs?

Originally posted by stumason
[...] but one wonders why, when the Assasin has gone to all the trouble to get into her room, why doesn't he just give a couple of stabs?

My theory: signs of a struggle and multiple stab wounds might make it hard for a coroner to rule "suicide".

Then again, far more obvious cases of murder have been ruled suicide, so who knows?

For that matter do you think Nero really stabbed himself in the throat? I mean how easy would it have been for a pratorian guard to do it to him then claim he did it so noone would get in trouble. Kind of like the king that committed suicide by shooting himself 37 times in the back.

I had never heard this theory before. I guess I need to watch more Discovery ...

But, none the less, this is very interesting. I will have to look more in to this and see what others have found.


*Z*

a few moments of this program. A police detective, I believe, was researching it as an unsolved murder. Her conclusions were that Octavius killed Cleopatra in order to gain rule over Egypt. After she was killed, he also killed her son. Which left him as ruler of Egypt.

I caught the last 15 min. or so.


b56

The story goes that her lover Antony, having been defeated by Augustus who launched his campaign against him apparently because of defiance and his abject control by Cleopatra, who was actually not well liked, killed himself, and she, not able to bear life without him, made an 'asp' of herself.

It is probably true, since Augustus solidly trounced both their armies and fleets, and no doubt was aiming to oust her from the throne, since he killed her son by Julius Caesar and then climbed onto the throne of Egypt.

The world loves a good tragedy, especially where lovers are concerned, so it is also possible her death was romanticised.

The textbook I use says that Antony took his life by falling on his sword in the Roman tradition. Then Cleopatra hung around long enough to try and seduce Octavious into allowing her to keep part of Egypt. He didn't want anything to do with her and so without Antony and no longer the ruler of any part of Egypt she snuck into the Royal tomb, put on the royal robes, laid down beside Antony, and clutched the asp to her chest.

Oh, and one more thing. The story of Cleopatra shows us one of the eternal truths of history. Those who use their looks to gain power are just asping for trouble.

Text Pink I understand that her armies were defeated and it was pretty much hopeless, but how coulld such a strong woman who had never in her life given up, just kill herself? I don't think her character/personality would have allowed it.

oh come on, I don't even get a groan for my painfully bad pun? lol

So did Hannibal really kill himself by drinking poison or was he too assassinated?

Originally posted by jukyu
oh come on, I don't even get a groan for my painfully bad pun?

lol

I thought about defenestrating you for the good of civilization. I could still try it.

Originally posted by jukyu
The textbook I use says that Antony took his life by falling on his sword in the Roman tradition. Then Cleopatra hung around long enough to try and seduce Octavious into allowing her to keep part of Egypt. He didn't want anything to do with her and so without Antony and no longer the ruler of any part of Egypt she snuck into the Royal tomb, put on the royal robes, laid down beside Antony, and clutched the asp to her chest.

That synopsis reminds me of something Shakespeare would have writtten, or maybe a soap opera. Dramatic.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if her death was by another's hand.

Cleopatra was actually a brilliant woman who spoke 9 languages and studied medicine and science with the best minds of her time. Her interest in poisons and snake bites long preceded her suicide. It was very common at that time for defeated or deposed rulers to committ suicide rather than be captured by their conquerors. Several of the leaders and conspirators that Caesar had defeated in his conquests also chose suicide. Cleopatra knew Octavian was going to humiliate her before all of Rome in one of his 'triumphs', as she had witnessed Caesar do years before with her sister Arsinoe. Cleopatra's decision to committ suicide was made to rob Octavian of the chance to humiliate and then imprison or execute her. which would also humiliate and disgrace her beloved Egypt... and because Marc Antony, wrongly told of her suicide in the confusion following the battle at Actium, had killed himself and was lost to her forever. She knew that the bite of the asp would be among the swiftest and least painful ways to die, and that her dying from the snakebite (asps were the royal cobras of Egypt) would immortalize her according to Egyptian beliefs. Antony, too, was following the customs of the times for captured leaders by taking his own life and thus depriving his enemy Octavian of complete satisfaction. Both Cleopatra and Antony stayed true to their strength of character by choosing to end their own lives rather than proceed into history as captured, ridiculed prisoners.

Originally posted by stumason
Which Cleopatra? Are not all the wives of Ptolemic Pharoahs called Cleopatra?

*sigh* i think he's talking about the one who looks like a qoat. The one were everyone says she was ugly but had a hypnotising affect on men. I wish i had that, without the ugly face part.

Its highly unlikely that she killed herself with a asp. Because that species does not live in Egypt and never has. There is good reason for Cleopatra’s snake being called an asp: the name asp used to be a general term for any kind of venomous snake, in much the same way that the word serpent is used to describe any snake.

Also its not likely anybody would use that snake for suicide as their bites are not often fatal; moreover, the effects are painful and messy. On the other hand, the biting cobra injects venom that interferes with the action of nerves and muscles. Death is quick and relatively painless. Scientists and scholars believe the snake that caused the death of Cleopatra was actually the Egyptian cobra, Naja haje.


www.fascinatingearth.com...'s%20Asp.htm