David Cameron: Conspiracy Theorists = Terrorists?

Hello my fellow ATSers!

I don't want to just post a video and run, but this one gave me some thought candy. It has strong language and a very agitated man on it - so be forewarned (second embedded video). If you can get past the ranting in it, the content is really thought worthy. David Cameron in his speech to the UN where he discusses the threat of ISIS (or whatever it is called this week). That we cannot just defeat them, but we (again impersonal here) must instead defeat their ideology. Not just their ideology but ALL extreme ideology.

To defeat ISIL – and organisations like it - we must defeat this ideology in all its forms.

As evidence emerges about the backgrounds of those convicted of terrorist offences, it is clear that many of them were initially influenced by preachers who claim not to encourage violence, but whose world view can be used as a justification for it. We know this world view.

The peddling of lies: that 9/11 was a Jewish plot or that the 7/7 London attacks were staged. The idea that Muslims are persecuted all over the world as a deliberate act of Western policy. The concept of an inevitable clash of civilisations.

We must be clear: to defeat the ideology of extremism we need to deal with all forms of extremism – not just violent extremism.

Transcript of above.




Without Commentary





With Commentary (strong language and a very angry man)




Without Jeff Ranting -- No strong language if embedded videos fail.


Your Thoughts?


Mine are that this is not as red-alert as the man in the video linked here states, but it is still alarming. That when people in power start comparing me (as I doubt the official stories) with a terrorist group that rapes, murders, pillages, etc... it puts my heckles up. Please discuss!

What he said sounds extreme to me.

He's an extremist, therefore, by his standards, he needs to be defeated.

Nearly impossible to watch more than 5 minutes of that video with whoever is doing commentary on it but wow. This goes right in the "you can't make this up" category. I guess that makes every one posting on this website, with views in opposition to Cameron's, extremists?

We must be clear: to defeat the ideology of extremism we need to deal with all forms of extremism – not just violent extremism.

For governments, there are some obvious ways we can do this. We must ban preachers of hate from coming to our countries. We must proscribe organisations that incite terrorism against people at home and abroad. We must work together to take down illegal online material like the recent videos of ISIL murdering hostages. And we must stop the so called non-violent extremists from inciting hatred and intolerance in our schools, our universities and yes, even our prisons.

Of course there are some who will argue that this is not compatible with free speech and intellectual inquiry.

But I say: would we sit back and allow right-wing extremists, Nazis or Klu Klux Klansmen to recruit on our university campuses? No.

So we shouldn’t stand by and just allow any form of non-violent extremism. We need to argue that prophecies of a global war of religion pitting Muslims against the rest of the world. These things are nonsense. We need Muslims and their governments around the world to reclaim their religion from these sick terrorists as so many are doing and quite rightly doing today. We all need to help them with programmes that channel young people away from these poisonous ideologues. And we need the strongest possible international focus on tackling this ideology - which is why here at the United Nations, the United Kingdom is calling for a new Special Representative on extremism.

Very dangerous and hypocritical points in his speech. They might as well establish an Orwellian Ministry of Truth.

ETA:

What he said sounds extreme to me.

He's an extremist, therefore, by his standards, he needs to be defeated.

And while that may be true, he is the PM of the UK so therefore it is actually YOU who is the extremist for saying and thinking things like that

a reply to: kicked

Yeah it's a bit difficult to get through the commentary on the linked vid but I could not find his speech alone on YouTube to embed in this post. That was the video that brought it to my attention. I am glad you got through enough to see the merit in what David Cameron said. I'll look a bit more for a replacement.

In fairness, it's fairly obvious that Cameron is talking about conspiracies being used to radicalise people - he's not talking about people like us discussing them.

Conspiracies about the Jews being in control of everything is a fairly key conceptual tool in the radicalisation of young Muslims, for instance.

That said, maybe he's a member of ATS. If so, give us a wave Dave!

a reply to: KingIcarus

I don't think so, because of what he states after this that kicked pointed out. The Jewish conspiracies I could buy by your explination - but the 7/7 conspiracy is all about government. That does not then qualify him mentioning it as a reason to radicalize Muslims against Israel.

a reply to: KaDeCo

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. If you read the speech transcript, the part right after the part in question actually makes a good point about what we should be doing:

Communism wasn’t defeated simply by pointing out its flaws – but by showing that the alternative of economic freedoms, democracy and the rule of law, these things could build a better society and a better world.

So make UK wonderful so people want to be like it. Good. And

Governments that only govern for some of their people cause deep resentment.

So support loving leaders, offer them a bridge to the pleasantness we've made of our own lives. Good.

But leaders who love the people are expensive to influence, and those who don't are cheap. The movie Syriana made this point well. When the speech goes on to talk about what we have to do in these countries, the idea of us exerting influence at all stands in opposition to these goals. Its easy to exert influence on self-interested leaders, but ones that love their people are real stubborn mules. To drive the point home, I would ask Mr. Cameron: How big of a gift of Saudi money would it take to get him to transfer the jobs of the UK's neediest working people to Saudi Arabia? Or to make a foreign policy decision that was against the interest of his nations people? If he loves his people, his policies are not for sale at all, and he can't be easily influenced by foreign money, even if the influence claims to be for the UK people's own good. Loving leadership responds only to the desires of its own people. And so it would be with loving leaders in the Middle East.

What that means in the end is that for the Middle East to stabilize, external forces need to stop trying to make the Middle East stabilize. Internal forces need to make the Middle East stabilize. In the end, they need to work it out on their own.

Now as far as the "battle of ideas"? It will be close to won it when we realize two things:
1) Every one is fighting it.
2) Every one is fighting it against a common enemy: our own ignorance.
The only way to win this battle is to stop making it a battle with each other, and make it about the discovery common truths, which can only happen through shared experiences. In this information age, and with the partnership of sovereign friends in other lands, we can create a foundation of shared experiences in the discovery of truth that will have us seeing eye-to-eye enough to have peace. Its about having enough common ground so we can relate, which is what's not happening right now. And its not about winning the battle against each other, its about winning the battle against ignorance.

In short, the information battle will be won when we all come together and Deny Ignorance!

Oh no. Please don't take that video down. I like the way Jeff rants. He's just super upset because of this guy is saying!!! I've heard, just over the past year, so many people warn of a day where citizens of the Free United States, will be sought out, beaten or prosecuted for just speaking their mind. Isn't that what the *ugh* "extremists" are doing? All they do is get on the Internet or tv or radio or however they go about it and just speak their mind on what they believe is really going on. Never once have I been forced in any way to believe what they say. And now here is this guy, willing to hand over is military and all of his gun power to help stop these people from speaking their minds. It's what they've been preparing for for a long time now.

Man, this has really opened my eyes. More than they were. This guy is nuts! And we're about to see some coo-coo crap go down. And when people start getting arrested and detained FOR NO REAL REASONS AT ALL, at least not legitimate reasons to are rest people, like you know, tapers and murders and child molestors that get away with stuff everyday, but for reply just putting their beliefs out there for people to see. Then. Maybe then, more of the public will begin to see what is happening. But by then, it will be much to late. They will have already shut everything down. People need to listen to this Jeff guy because he knows what he's talking about.

I now I sound nuts. But hey, are we all a little bit nuts?

oh nice nice

so now we are all terrorists

a reply to: tridentblue

Now as far as the "battle of ideas"? It will be close to won it when we realize two things: 1) Every one is fighting it. 2) Every one is fighting it against a common enemy: our own ignorance. The only way to win this battle is to stop making it a battle with each other, and make it about the discovery common truths, which can only happen through shared experiences. In this information age, and with the partnership of sovereign friends in other lands, we can create a foundation of shared experiences in the discovery of truth that will have us seeing eye-to-eye enough to have peace. Its about having enough common ground so we can relate, which is what's not happening right now. And its not about winning the battle against each other, its about winning the battle against ignorance. In short, the information battle will be won when we all come together and Deny Ignorance!

Exactly!! But don't you see that is exactly what they don't want. And why he made that damn speech in the first place. They don't want us to see the truth or to see eye to eye at all. Because the day we can all deny their ignorance and the ignorance that has been brainwashed into so many people will be the day they will be brought down. You can't stand against an entire nation that will be very upset when they learn the truth. Whatever it may be. And when the people get upset, well, we've all seen what just a small group of protester can bring about. What do you think would happen if even half the nation came together to stand up against them? A war would break out just over some crazies posting their opinions or personal beliefs on the Internet, or over the radio. Doesn't matter the level of extreme the truth era out there say, they will attach anyone who threatens their power-induced agenda.

Unfortunately, I really don't think we're ready for that. So many people are so horribly brainwashed they will do anything to protect what they believe and what they been taught is real. "Aargh fight for my country!! Ima die for them even though My kids are starving at home because I don't make enough to feed them and I can't get any other job!" It's just too hard to make people see something isn't what it seems when it's been pounded in generations and generations of heads to think that what they live and what they see is real. Some people just can't deny ignorance. And there really is no help for them. They will be the ones to come busy through our doors and arrest entire families for saying what they believe. It's just insane, all of it. so insane that people just refuse to hear it, and not enough people can see it.

a reply to: Tapping123

That's what I got from it. If what he wants actually happens they won't even try to go through all the users in this site, they already know what's said on here, they will just track is all down from our cpu's or phones and arrest us all. It's too late for any of us to go back on anything said, which I hope no one would try, because they see what most people say and will just arrest all of us. They will do anything, and literally anything, because they really could care less about the people, to stop anyone from getting in the way of whatever it is that they have planned. And that plan involves nothing but control and devastation. Eventually people will see the truth but it will be too late and thousands of people will probably die screaming it at the top of their lungs, but the will remember it.

cameron wasnt even voted in,he was forced on us and we did as we were told,,well him gchq and all the dyslexic agents can bring it on because i will never be silenced about the injustice in this country,,in fact how much do you get paid cameron????????????how much are you paying our children to go to war for you?????????????????????????what will you be doing cameron while our children are ordered to war???????????drinking champagne?? insert lots of swear words here

my message to you cameron is bring it on you foolish man the world is changing and the current systems no longer represent what the global masses want

Well, they can't have anyone digging for facts and doubting The Truth From On High.
Very inconvenient ya know.

a reply to: DAVID64

Please, explain.

Overall the speech does sound like the usual war rally. I did find it embarrassing at times when such noble and idealistic statement is then contradicted by a lie or misguided perception. I am not sure how many members at the UN have done their own research or homework in regards to 9/11, but to still be peddling this argument in such a forum comes across as some kind of evil sick joke.

The middle east sure does have a lot of problems. I still do not get how Assad is an enemy when he was democratically elected before all the instability started. Central banks, oil pipe lines and military jobs is all that I can reasonably put together as to why Syria is a target. With the long drawn out Iraq conflict, generational barbarism was a clear outcome before hostilities started. The break down in the rule of law is the biggest issue and clearest way out of this regional mess. With the international rule of law based on might rather than right, don't hold your breath for any sudden fixes.

So basically in a nutshell what he's saying is:

Non-violent extremism = anyone who questions and/or disagrees with our actions, thoughts, or opinions


Looks like they've just found their trump card on how to wean down the populace to 500,000,000.... because there's only about that many people left on the planet who don't fall into that category description.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
So basically in a nutshell what he's saying is:

Non-violent extremism = anyone who questions and/or disagrees with our actions, thoughts, or opinions


Looks like they've just found their trump card on how to wean down the populace to 500,000.... because there's only about that many people left on the planet who don't fall into that category description.

so it would seem that Orwell was writing reality and not science fiction ...although back when he wrote it it was just that

Now, I hate Cameron, I hate the Tories (Conservatives) full stop, being from the North that is kind of in ours genes (lol)....but the "commentator" has completely twisted Camorons (intentional spelling) words out of context.

IF there is any truth to Camorons words, then they are highly commendable, it's action that needs to be taken to squash extremism and radicalisation....

I see no indication in any of his speech that suggests conspiracy theorists are extremists and need to be silenced, or any dig a CT's whatsoever.

By the way, the guy commenting sounds like a prat, and he has his knickers in a twist over his beheading videos being taken down??? What the hell did he expect?? He was stupid enough to post them I guess, so he probably doesn't get it.

a reply to: woogleuk

That's because Cameron is just a puppet, he was told something that makes him believe in something leading him to get up and say whatever he's told. Because he's been brainwashed too. Yea, he may not see the truth behind what he's saying. But in reality, it's not just targeting the extreme terrorist. He stated the non-violent extremists. Meaning anyone who goes around preaching their BELIEFS, because let's face it, that's pretty much what any of it is, just a hardcore belief in something, it without having to he violent, or forceful. Therefore, violating at least one amendment that we are supposed to rely on, you know the ones that this country is based on. Our freedoms. That's what makes America what it is. The fact that it's and free country and the people are free. But what is the real meaning of free? Do we even really know it? I don't think so. The only way for anyone to be truly free is when they can separate themselves from what is around them and have their own thoughts and beliefs without anyone taking that away. And this guy is going to try to do just that. Doesn't matter how you go about expressing your freedom, if you do it in a way that questions them in any way, your a terrorist and an non-violent extremist and you need to be taken down. The end.

a reply to: PageLC14

Non-violent extremists is this context is (probably) referring to people who spout the propaganda of ISIL (and others) with the intention of creating more extremists who m ay turn into violent ones.

For example, people who post beheading videos to instil fear into people, or make would be extremists want to join the cause because they think it's cool.

People are reading (or listening) far too much into this speech...clutching at straws comes to mind.