Who are the 24 elders in Revelation 4?

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

Who are these elders?

Is this some sort of Masonic code?

a reply to: onequestion
I don't know their names exactly....my impression is they are dudes like
Noah
Isaiah
Joshua
Peter James and John and the rest of the crew of 11+1
Adam
Jonah
Job
David
and five more....you pick....
Jasher?
Enoch?
Daniel?
Ifn it aint guys like this then who else?

originally posted by: onequestion

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

Who are these elders?

Is this some sort of Masonic code?

They are the elected priests who enact upon the laws and pass judgment to those seeking Eternal life.
They are all seated there before the *Lamb* cracks the seal tho. Suggesting maybe they were waiting much like how some of the myths personify purgatory.

I know that there is many references to Orders within the Illuminati.
The Illuminati has not formed because the Elect have not been chosen yet. Had it been known the kingdom would be upon us this very second lol.

Just my interitation, il be back after searching the web.

They hang around under the floor of the throne room at first till Jesus lets them out just before judgement day.....till then they just cry out for justice....

a reply to: onequestion

Absolutely nothing to do with the Masons who actually draw there name from medievil cathedral builders in germany, the later esoteric sects who layed claim to ancient oriental (oriental used to mean egypt and the near east not today's asia) philosophy and misunderstood occultism, they also merged at there upper echelons with the 17th century occulstis hellfire satanists who practiced debauchery such as orgies and even virgin human sacrifice and included members of royalty, this came to pass because the original masons upon recieving royal patronage were then led by these higher ranking members of society.

Many think the masons are egalitarian but in fact they are not they are a stricty regimented heirarchy and some levels of that heirarchy you can only gain by status of your birth.

The Hellfire club are the real reason why so many Masons including the grand lodge in the states worship or rather try to be Lucifer, they claim it is not the devil and sink to semantics claiming mistranslation etc but the truth is they worship Lucifer not Christ or Jehovah and call Lucifer the Grand Architect of the Universe not Jehovah or the Word who was the real architect at the beginning and is actually Jesus Christ.

So no absolutely Nothing to do with the Masonic religious sects or there symbology.

There were Twelve Tribes, Twelve Patriarchs and Twelve Matriarchs of the tribes of Israel, Christ said In the resurrection there is no difference between a man and a woman so maybe that is who they are, before him and his father man and woman are equal not inequal at least not in the resurrection so perhaps the twenty four elders are the twenty four parents of the 12 tribes, the 12 son's of Jacob first of the line of Gods blessing bestowed upon him and his seed at Bethel and there 12 wive's and mothers of there first born.

originally posted by: onequestion

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

Who are these elders?

Is this some sort of Masonic code?

Nope.
They identify themselves by the song they sing:

"“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

- Revelation 5:9-10

There is only one group of people in the Bible who has been "redeemed to God... by His blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and nation", only one group that will be "kings and priests", and that is the Church.

Israel does not have these promises, nor are they from every tribe.
The tribulation saints (who sing in Chapter 7) have their own promise (they will serve in the temple in the Millennial Kingdom), but are not yet in the picture here.

Hope that answers your question.

a reply to: onequestion

don't know their names but they are Jews, just like the 144000 that will rule over earth from heaven.
Weird most christians have not worked out that the new testament is not for them but for the jewish people

originally posted by: ZeussusZ
a reply to: onequestion

don't know their names but they are Jews, just like the 144000 that will rule over earth from heaven.
Weird most christians have not worked out that the new testament is not for them but for the jewish people

This is refuted by the text. These people are from "Every tribe, and tongue, and nation". They are not Jews.

The crowns are significant too, by the way.
These are mentioned in Revelation 4, and are described elsewhere in Scripture:

1. The incorruptible crown: 1 Cor. 9:24,25.
2. The crown of rejoicing: 1 Thess. 2:19, 20. & Dan 12:3
3. The crown of life: James 1:12.
4. The crown of righteousness: 2 Tim. 4:8.
5. The crown of glory: 1 Pet. 5:1~4.


...these crowns are also exclusive rewards to the Church.

This was my account of them in my own Revelation series of threads (q.v.);

The teaching about God in this chapter comes mainly from the imagery.
The central premise of the vision is that John stands in the presence of God.
The details that say so are echoes of similar meetings in the Old Testament.
They include the meeting with the "seventy elders of Israel" at Sinai- asociated with the Covenant between God and his people (it comes immediately after the Covenant-sacrifice)- Exodus ch24 vv9-11...

Similarly John sees "an open door" in heaven- then hears the invitation to "come up" where God is...
Next he sees another version of the "elders of Israel", the representatives of God's people.
They're wearing white garments, as a symbol of redemption from sin.
They're wearing golden crowns, and sitting on thrones of their own, which identifies them as kings.
As the people in John's time would have known, permission to sit in the king's presence is a great honour and privilege in itself;
"What is man that thou art mindful of him?..
Thou hast made him little less than God,
And dost crown him with glory and honour"- Psalm 8 vv4-5

The "seventy elders" of Sinai were a symbolic number- "seven", the number of God, multiplied by "ten", the number of completeness.
What about the elders in this vision?
The number "twenty-four" is sometimes taken as "twelve for Israel, twelve for the Church". My problem with that interpretation is that I see the Church- and I think the New Testament sees the Church- as a continuation of Israel rather than as a new body. In which case a single "twelve" should be enough to identify the whole body of God's people.
An alternative suggestion, which I like better, is to match the number with the twenty-four priestly familes of the tribe of Levi. In other words, it identifies the elders as a priesthood.

If they're wearing the white garments of redemption and acting as both kings and priests, then this makes them the visual expression of their own song in the next chapter;
"Thou dost ransom men for God..,
And hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God".

So this part of the vision is telling us that this God has a Covenant relationship with a people within the world, and the closeness to the throne shows just how important that is.

Thunder and lightning and voices are coming from the throne, another echo of the Covenant-making of Sinai.
They express God's intention to impose his will.
This may become "wrath", but the wrath is already limited by the protective aspect of God (implied by the rainbow), and by his Covenant relationship (implied by the presence of the elders), which hold him back from total destruction.
...
The space in front of the throne is covered by "a sea of glass, like crystal".
This represents the firmament.
It was part of the symbolism of the meetings with Ezekiel and with the elders at Sinai that God showed himself standing on a kind of "portable" firmament.
John has now been caught up (in vision) to the real thing, to that place where God looks down upon the earth.
...
Finally, we learn about God from the statements in the praise of both groups.
The praise is unceasing... the elders are unceasingly offering their royal authority back to God (this is later parodied by the submission of the "ten kings" to the Beast).

originally posted by: Awen24

originally posted by: ZeussusZ
a reply to: onequestion

don't know their names but they are Jews, just like the 144000 that will rule over earth from heaven.
Weird most christians have not worked out that the new testament is not for them but for the jewish people

This is refuted by the text. These people are from "Every tribe, and tongue, and nation". They are not Jews.

No, that is not in the text

a reply to: ZeussusZ
Awen24 is refering to their own song, ch5 v9.

Still lost... Keep it coming.

originally posted by: Awen24

originally posted by: onequestion

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

Who are these elders?

Is this some sort of Masonic code?

Nope.
They identify themselves by the song they sing:

"“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

- Revelation 5:9-10

There is only one group of people in the Bible who has been "redeemed to God... by His blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and nation", only one group that will be "kings and priests", and that is the Church.

Israel does not have these promises, nor are they from every tribe.
The tribulation saints (who sing in Chapter 7) have their own promise (they will serve in the temple in the Millennial Kingdom), but are not yet in the picture here.

Hope that answers your question.

The USA meets this line completely. "Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation". Im agnostic nut that seems clear to me if your gona believe this stuff. That is a description of Modern USA not Jews.

originally posted by: ZeussusZ
Weird most christians have not worked out that the new testament is not for them but for the jewish people

Incorrect...

Judaism is not the OT religion that many believe.

originally posted by: Nichiren
Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew. During His lifetime, no persons were described as "Jews" anywhere. That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea, it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves "Jews". Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea. They existed at that time in Asia, their "homeland", and were known as Khazars. In none of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a "Jew". The term originated in the late eighteenth century as an abbreviation of the term Judean and refers to a resident of Judea without regard to race or religion, just as the term "Texan" signifies a person living in Texas.

In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history that there is one record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same. Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".

originally posted by: pthena
The original Jews were the people from the Babylonian Captivity who didn't want to return to Judea, because they enjoyed the benefits of Babylonian and Persian culture. They aren't Israelites or Judeans. They are Babylonians. There is no mention of Jews until Esther. They didn't exist until Esther.

originally posted by: sweftl337
The word “Jew” never existed in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic and Jesus spoke mostly Greek and Aramaic. First of all, if we go back some 2000 years, there were no Jews. There was a land known as “Judea” and in that land lived many different peoples. The people of Moses were the Hebrew Israelites – there was no Jew.

Hoffman then takes ‘modern’ Christians to task for furthering the myth of a ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition: “The Church Fathers knew of no ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition since Judaism as we know it today did not exist before Christ.

Before Christ, there was only the faith of the Israelites, until by a gradual process, the pure faith of the Israelites was subverted by corrupt teachings. These corrupt teachings were transmitted orally by the Pharisees. Christ condemned these teachings when calling them the ‘traditions of the elders.’” Review: "Judaism Discovered"

Shortly after World War I, Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company, assembled a staff of experts in Detroit to conduct research on the European Jews who had been entering America in large numbers since the 1880's. Ford further proved that these Jews, using all sorts of crimes while under the cloak of being the Chosen People of the Bible, were rapidly taking economic and political control of America. In the religious field, Ford claimed THE JEWS HAD SECRETLY GAINED CONTROL OF MOST PROTESTANT SEMINARIES AND CHRISTIAN BOOK- PUBLISHING HOUSES and had been able to remove almost all criticism of Jews from Christian literature.

In summing up his findings, Henry Ford stated, "The Jews are not the Chosen People, though practically the entire Church has succumbed to the propaganda which declares them to be so." Ford's book caused a furor for a few years but soon disappeared from colleges, universities, and public libraries and became unobtainable at any price.

The Churches continued to teach "The Jews are God's Chosen People, Israel," and the (by then) Jewish-dominated news media began to refer to Jews always as Israelites. Anyone opposing the increasing Jewish control of the nations was immediately branded "anti-Semitic;" and Jewish dominated Seminaries taught new ministers to quote Genesis 12:1-3 and sternly warn their flocks that anyone speaking unfavorably of the Jews would be "cursed by God." Jewish control of American society, politics, and religions continued to increase.

Absolute Proof More Modern Jews Not Biblical Israelites

"We know that Saul was the first king of Israel and that John was the first man called Baptist, but who was the first Jew? Neither Adam, Seth or Noah are called Jew. Nor were Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. Moses was not called a Jew and neither were Saul, David or Solomon called Jew. In fact you will not find the word Jew in the first eleven books of the Bible. The first time Jews are mentioned in the Bible, is in II Kings 16:6 (and then only in translations revised in the eighteenth century) where we find Israel was at war with the Jews and drove the Jews from Elath.

Isn't it interesting that we can read over five hundred pages of the Bible before we find a Jew anywhere, yet those who call themselves Jew today claim the first five books of the bible and call it their Torah. Do you not find it rather strange that those who claim to have written the first five books of the Bible and call themselves Jew, can't find the word Jew written anywhere in the book they call their own bible, and claim to have written?

It wasn't until the revised editions of the King James Bible, that the word Jew appeared. The word Jew does not mean Israel or Israelite! We must conclude therefore that the first "Jews" were Canaanite-Edomite-Hittite. It is certain, according to the Bible, that Jews are not Israel."

Who was the First Jew?

The late Rabbi Stephen F. Wise, formerly the Chief Rabbi of the United States said, "The return from Babylon and the introduction of the Babylonian Talmud mark the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism."

The learned Rabbi was correct in distinguishing the true religion of the Old Testament as Hebrewism for it was the religion of the real Hebrews, who were not Jews at all. Judaism, the religion of the Jews, is as the learned Rabbi says, based upon the Babylonian Talmud, which contains the supposed oral law. It was never reduced to writing as part of the Bible. This oral law gradually gained greater force among the Jews than the written law in the Bible, with which it often conflicted in Jesus' day, the Babylonian Talmud was known as the Tradition of the Elders.

This was the religion of the Jews. As the learned Rabbi Stephen F. Wise said, Judaism was distinguished from Hebrewism, the real religion of the Old Testament. Certainly Christianity took nothing from any Jewish religion for we have never taken any part of Christianity from the Talmud. Well then, can it be said we got our Bible or our religion of Christianity from men of the Jewish race? No, it cannot.

The Bible is not a Jewish Book

i've often wondered about this my self. i have a this one theory that i can't explain away and haven't seen any body talk one way or the other about it.

i think that they are the 12 tribes, and the 12 disciples. the tribe representing Israel and the disciples the world.

a reply to: onequestion

The 24 Elders represent the 24 courses of Priests that
served in the Jewish Temple.(They serve in the Heavenly temple)
There was one course for each week except for the feasts. For the festivals, all courses
participated in the services.
These are the ones who were resurrected with Christ(Matt 27:53)

a reply to: Murgatroid

So what group of people today are actual decedents of biblical Israelite? Just Curious? What group of people today are most related to the people Moses led out of Egypt? Jordanians? Syrians? Surely some DNA test on ancient Israelite have been done?

originally posted by: Xeven
a reply to: Murgatroid

So what group of people today are actual decedents of biblical Israelite? Just Curious? What group of people today are most related to the people Moses led out of Egypt? Jordanians? Syrians? Surely some DNA test on ancient Israelite have been done?

I am not sure weather I agree entirely with the sources Murgatroid as quoted, I am part Jewish myself but am a firm believer in Jesus Christ but to answer who are there descendant's, well like at the time of the babylonian exile which was mainly the city jew's not the farmers, after that exile the jews or rather israelite farmers became the samaritans and the altered religion that the returning exiles brought had been haavily influenced by the babylonian belief's, for example God was now seen as omnipresent which was a babylonian belief where as the Samaritans still continued to worship god as in heaven and sacrificed in the old way that the Jew's no longer followed.

At the time of the Roman expulsion most Jew's fled east and during the time of Islam's rise many of the tribes that were conquered and assimilated by Muhammads band of outlaws and murderer's were jewish, one tribe he had all the men murdered and the woman given to his men as slaves as they had resisted him and long before this many kingdoms in arabia were actually jewish by faith and possibly by descent, maybe Israelite is a better definition here, by the time of muhammad many of them were christian having converted to follow the messiah and were wiped out or forced to convert to Islam.

However the Romans took tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of jew's slave and they would have lost there religion and become assimilated into the general Roman slave population.

The Syrian Orthodox church was not founded by St peter or St paul but by the other apostles and was actually the survival of the first christian Jewish church, even today they still hold there catachysm in Arameic the language Jesus is believed to have spoken though the Scrolls and book's in the synogogues where he often debated were written in Hebreic script so he definitely also spoke/speak's Hebrew though being the word incarnate he actually speaks God the father of all tongues or the primal tongue and when the holy spirit descended on the apostles they often spoke in tongues, Greeks hearing would hear greek, assyrians heard there own language and so did Romans, this was one person saying one words under the influence of the holy spirit but being understood by all present as though they said them words in there own native tongue so it was the divine primal language of God.

Any Jew that accepts christ is safe as is any one else who accepts his merciful gift into there heart, any Jew that practices the law without flaw and perfectly without sin is also safe as christ said "If you keep the law you do not need me (Salvation)", he came for his own flock first but remember he is also God of the whole world and by that argument we are all his flock, but this is the field in which his fathers enemy sowed his own turs to ruin the crop or to corrupt mankind, it is the vinyard which the bad servants run until the father comes to kill them.

When god blesses someone it is to the thousandth generation except to Jacob who he told he would bless his seed for all generations, when God hates someone it is to the fourth generation, those he loves he punishes, those he hates can get on with it but will eventually be displaced and destroyed for they are godless.

Jesus turned on evil men who claimed to be jew's and told them they might say they have Abraham for there father but God could raise the very stones up as Children to Abraham so birth right is no guarantee before god and the evil that had moved into the house of israel would definitely be destroyed but not THE house of Israel, Jesus is our King after all.

As for Kazaria well Jew's were forbidden from settling and a step tribe who adopted there religon became a magnet to them so many settled there, perhaps intermarrying with the Khazarian tribes people and perhaps the Hacidic russians are best example of this with there tall step like almost cossack appearance as opposed to the small jewish men who from the time of Aaron spoke of men who made them feel like grass hoppers, but there is Jewish blood in them and of that I have no doubt.

The Beni Cohen gene is a good marker, it is found in males descended from the Levite tribe and is found in the Lemba of south africa, the Ethiopean Jew's (the Ethiopean orthodox church was originally jewish by faith but like many jew's accepted christ as the son of Jehovah and the Messiah), it is found throughout many people in arabie from the palastinians to the Yemeni tribes and it is found in the European Jewry as well as cropping up among many other europeans, of course is this research accurate.

Lastly while I am not condoning and indeed hate anti semitism, Jew's are simply people, there are good and bad in all society's and all people's but most christian anti semitism originated in the Roman period of persectution's and remember that same anti semitism was one reason early christians were persecuted by Rome.

One last think Jesus will sift his wheat so he will say who is Jew and Who is not.

The 24 elders control how events occur in reality, from what we are taught 23 of the scientists go out an cause the events and the 24th does the calculations, they calculate from the events of the script or qhaw you call the bible and quran, this is how these events occur, that's why the world is in such a condition it's in, it is not a coincidence...