Quarantine Accelerates Ebola Spread

reply to: Thurisaz

I asked BasementWarriorKryptonite for his sources. He replied: "I reserve that sort of thing for my professional research and my colleagues, for whom it actually matters - not for ATS." BasementWarriorKryptonite

I reserve that sort of thing for my professional research and my colleagues, for whom it actually matters - not for ATS.

I responded:
"If your opinion of ATS is so low you can't bother to show common respect to other Members, why bother posting here?"

If you think that's rude, you should hear me when I'm really in a rush.

fyi - Druid42 has a great thread for discussing unsupported speculation and unsubstantiated opinions. This ain't it.

a reply to: soficrow

I'm sure we are all shaking in our boots, now. I have stated that I have respect for some ATS members and in general, have no real problem with others for the most part. But, that doesn't mean I'm going to spend even a moment of my down time running around trying to prove anything to you or anyone.

I'm happy to discuss the actual comment I made and any issue that you may have with it.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite


Shoo. This is a serious thread. No time for egos, trolling or other bs.

No, I think you've demonstrated to the rest of us that this is far from a serious thread about the actual topic.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Your original comment, "It's only spreading because they're so backwards and think medical assistance is bad juju," is not one I consider worthy of discussion, most particularly since you refuse to provide any sources to substantiate your "opinion." I have very little time to give to this issue and prefer not to waste it.

As I pointed out above, Druid42 has a GREAT thread for discussing unsupported speculation and unsubstantiated opinions. This ain't it.

a reply to: soficrow

I don't need to back it up. It's hardly uncommon knowledge that most african countries aren't developed and retain older, more tribal traditional cultures. Do you require some sort of reference or citation or proof of that? Can we be adults and just agree that it's pretty much the case, without buying plane tickets there to see it for ourselves?

I think you might be trying to paint me as a racist. I'm a pragmatist. I don't believe in beating around the bush for the sake of keeping up appearances, or to keep from hurting someone's sensitivities, when it bypasses the bs you seem keen to also bypass.

MORE: Quarantine makes Ebola spread

Latest Ebola News: Is quarantine responsible for worsening Ebola outbreak?

...the rate of rise in Ebola cases significantly increased in August in Liberia and Guinea around the time that a mass quarantine was put in place.

Quarantine measures making Ebola outbreak spread: Study

a reply to: Thurisaz

The member in question is acting like a troll, Sofi has been a long standing member of ATS and her years of experience in research has made her very well respected and a valuable asset to the forums.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

While some of what you bring may have some truth is more to the issue of how "developing countries" tackle epidemics that meet the eye.

Most countries in Africa receive billions of dollars of aid from countries like the US pay by us the tax payer, but the money never gets to reach to help the poor and needy that are the majority that are caught in epidemics, more often than not is the fault of the governments that the countries in question have.

The reason for this is very simple, US send tax dollars in the form of aid, but most of that money is to protect the governments elite lavish lifestyle so they do not get topple by the unhappy opposition, this ensure that US gets support when that support is needed.

Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

Money from rich countries has trapped many African nations in a cycle of corruption, slower economic growth and poverty. Cutting off the flow would be far more beneficial, says Dambisa Moyo.

Sometimes is not really the fault of the people of let say certain developing nation, but the way that the global elite works.

Giving alms to Africa remains one of the biggest ideas of our time -- millions march for it, governments are judged by it, celebrities proselytize the need for it. Calls for more aid to Africa are growing louder, with advocates pushing for doubling the roughly $50 billion of international assistance that already goes to Africa each year.

Yet evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that aid to Africa has made the poor poorer, and the growth slower. The insidious aid culture has left African countries more debt-laden, more inflation-prone, more vulnerable to the vagaries of the currency markets and more unattractive to higher-quality investment. It's increased the risk of civil conflict and unrest (the fact that over 60% of sub-Saharan Africa's population is under the age of 24 with few economic prospects is a cause for worry). Aid is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster.

With all the aid that Africa gets they should be enjoying the best health care in the world and ebola should have been eradicated by now

online.wsj.com...

So at the end the tax dollars that goes on aid have nothing of aid to it.

a reply to: soficrow

You know what bothers me the most, where is the WHO to made sure that the people been quarantine basic human rights are protected.

I mean, how stupid or careless are the government officials that will round people like cattle and let them die in despicable sanitarian conditions.

Like I say before, where are the billions of dollars that the government of countries like sierra the leo gets a yearly.

a reply to: marg6043

It's complicated alright. File under "Effects of Greed."

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Thurisaz

The member in question is acting like a troll, Sofi has been a long standing member of ATS and her years of experience in research has made her very well respected and a valuable asset to the forums.

Acting like one, in your opinion and you replied to a post of mine, seemingly in good faith - why couldn't the other member? Because I'm not a troll and it's all just opinion.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

While some of what you bring may have some truth is more to the issue of how "developing countries" tackle epidemics that meet the eye.

Most countries in Africa receive billions of dollars of aid from countries like the US pay by us the taxpayer, but the money never gets to reach to help the poor and needy that are the majority that are caught in epidemics, more often than not is the fault of the governments that the countries in question have.

The reason for this is very simple, US send tax dollars in the form of aid, but most of that money is to protect the governments elite lavish lifestyle so they do not get topple by the unhappy opposition, this ensure that US gets support when that support is needed.

Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

Money from rich countries has trapped many African nations in a cycle of corruption, slower economic growth and poverty. Cutting off the flow would be far more beneficial, says Dambisa Moyo.

Sometimes is not really the fault of the people of let say certain developing nation, but the way that the global elite works.

Giving alms to Africa remains one of the biggest ideas of our time -- millions march for it, governments are judged by it, celebrities proselytize the need for it. Calls for more aid to Africa are growing louder, with advocates pushing for doubling the roughly $50 billion of international assistance that already goes to Africa each year.

Yet evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that aid to Africa has made the poor poorer, and the growth slower. The insidious aid culture has left African countries more debt-laden, more inflation-prone, more vulnerable to the vagaries of the currency markets and more unattractive to higher-quality investment. It's increased the risk of civil conflict and unrest (the fact that over 60% of sub-Saharan Africa's population is under the age of 24 with few economic prospects is a cause for worry). Aid is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster.

With all the aid that Africa gets they should be enjoying the best health care in the world and ebola should have been eradicated by now

online.wsj.com...

So at the end the tax dollars that goes on aid have nothing of aid to it.

I know the effect of 'aid' all too well, and the many ways it's used by paternalistic 'developed' nations, as well as the better ways it can be provided, but that was a good post.

While we can agree that aid does have an impact, the blame game doesn't sit well with me in this case. The fact remains, that these countries are just traditionally not the same as what most of us would expect a culture to behave - even in our most bizarre dreams. They are backwards, by our standards and there's just no denying it. Much of the population likely does think that the medicine and the medical staff that can help them, are not.

There's no excuse for attacking a member for making this claim.

Here's a great overview from Vox on why this Ebola epidemic spun out of control. It's worth reading. It's also worth remembering that the US now projects 1.4 million cases by mid-January if nothing more is done.

Seven reasons why this Ebola epidemic spun out of control

If you'd asked public-health experts a year ago whether an Ebola outbreak could turn into an epidemic spread across borders, they probably would have confidently told you that there was no way: the virus isn't transmitted very easily, and people usually get so sick and die so quickly, it has little opportunity to infect a new host.

Then came 2014, the year that is rewriting the Ebola rulebook. ….

How did Ebola spiral so badly out of control?

There are a few obvious features that have made this outbreak different and more violent: the virus hit unprepared countries in West Africa that had no previous experience with Ebola, and it quickly moved to densely populated urban hot spots (as opposed to isolated, rural areas where the virus typically popped up in Central and East Africa).

But there are other more subtle factors that are helping Ebola survive today for the first ever Ebola epidemic. They hold lessons for public health responses of the future on how to better contain such a deadly disease.

1) Public-health campaigns started too late and didn't reach enough people

2) The countries affected by Ebola have some of the world's lowest literacy rates

3) There's a strong Ebola rumor mill

4) Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Guinea are some of the poorest countries in Africa with fragile health systems

5) These countries have spotty disease surveillance networks

6) The international community responded painfully slowly

7) The countries most affected — and our world — is increasingly interconnected.

…."Even from the most remote areas of our world, people are getting more and more connected," he said, "sometimes nationally, sometimes internationally."

This is the new normal, he said, and it should rewrite how public health officials think about Ebola going forward.

"The various different features of this outbreak —where we have an outbreak cutting across international boundaries, involving urban areas — we can think of this as the new norm and we have to be concerned this can happen every time because of the connectivity of places."

a reply to: soficrow

I have to say that it makes a lot of sense as why Ebola has expanded their once small hot spots, but if you look at how this time even Americans got infected it tells you that is more than meet the eyes, specially on the role that foreign workers or aid or whatever they are were doing in those certain regions at the time of the contamination.

It is not that ebola is new, it is not, it has been around in Africa for a long time, these foreign people should have known better.

a reply to: marg6043

You might like this one marg, Why Quarantine Won't Stop the Ebola Epidemic in West Africa