Was Jesus really who the Bible says he was OR

a reply to: BobAthome

Better how ? You haven't revealed any new information here.
Did you believe I didn't know any of this?

John 19:3
Jesus Sentenced to Be Crucified. 19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, “Hail, king of the Jews!”

John 19:15

Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold, your King!" 15So they cried out, "Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him!" Pilate said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar."

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

whine and make up versions that don't infringe upon their freedom to continue in wickedness.

I dont whine that I was given reason and intellect. I dont play your game. Would your idea of wickedness have the possible outcome being cast to hell? Theres another good thread going on ATS at the moment about judgement.

Yes, you were given reason and intellect, but to put it to good use, you have to start being honest about it.. Your last post before this is again just more conjecture about history that you like, and what you do not like the sound of is determining truth for you, in other words, stop letting your biases choose what to believe, or what is based on emotion rather than reason and intellect. You can't take a biased route and claim only reason and intellect were used to determine what you see as sound information.

If you can honestly say you were a neutral party and still believe the same way then go right ahead. At least then no person can fault you... Unless you were still biased and still using that faux shield of logic and reason to claim victory. (The only trouble with this, is I can always see through it, and so can others.

And the part about wickedness and judgment no man can speak on to another because only Christ has that authority, and so saying this, I hope you are not judged, and I sure hope I am not, because no man is without some degree of wickedness in them.
Any Christian who thinks they have any moral high ground to say "he should be cast to hell", or, "That man or woman over there deserves hell" is literally playing with disaster, because no one has been granted that power, or even comprehends the responsibility of that power of judgment and what it really and truly means.

I wouldn't ever wish, want, or say who should be sent to hell, not even my worst enemy, and when people do this, they could be judging themselves right there on the spot..

Humility and concern for the fate of others can give a better insight into how to think, in as much as bias, personal pursuits over the pursuit of helping others can grab hold and make knowing fact from fiction very difficult proposition, to put it mildly.

It is much easier to just do as thou wilt, rather than go against popular or public views, and sometimes I do both, so I am not without my own bad ways, and so I reason for myself to be accountable.

If you find yourself standing before Christ one day and you feel all the weight of sin upon you when before him, will you stand tall and admit you deserve death? Some do, and many don't. Many are too proud.

I can speak from experience and say that if you ever find yourself suddenly there with Christ standing right there looking at you, everything you have ever done that is not worthy of life will be instantly known, and realized just exactly what it is and means, and the truth of that is you don't come out smelling very good, and you know it. This is when survival instincts kick in and you try to find a reason good enough that you can present to him that might give you another chance to do better.

I'm thinking more about myself as someone who knows for a fact he is real and not playing games, but is fair and much generous in letting you work it out, rather than just being an angry Lord, because he is far from that.

No, I would not ever consider saying to anyone even if they killed my whole family, that they must be sent to hell. It isn't worth it.

I hope I answered your questions on what I believe. What you choose to believe is your affair, I am just telling you what I believe based on my own experiences, and I am not afraid of being laughed at or mocked by anyone because I will put myself at risk publically for the one who already gave me another chance, and I hope that I don't waste that chance. If you only knew half the things I have been shown, and the things I have seen you would know I'm not lying, or deluded in any way.
If you still wonder how these amazing things could have been revealed to me, and I am still not doing my part to avoid judgment, it is because I am still being tested to see if I will put forth the effort to achieve what he wants to see me achieve, and choose to only allow righteous and virtuous things in my life's pursuits, but living in such a world of self seeking and bribe taking pleasure seeking junkies makes that a real rocky road. Would you not agree?

How can we soar like Eagles when we fly with so many turkeys?

I'm still trying to learn how to do that, but I really think I am going to make it. In fact, because of your probing earlier personal questions to me, I think you have helped force it out into a place that I can now see it, where for some reason, I just wasn't seeing it before. I owe you a lot of thanks, and even though this might sound like I'm trying to be funny, it is actually on the spot true.

a reply to: BobAthome

So is that a photo of the original cross or a artists impression of what it may have looked like.

Eagerly await your response

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

If it hasnt been understood I will state again that I used to have a faith in christianity/doctrines/bible et al.

If you find yourself standing before Christ one day and you feel all the weight of sin upon you when before him, will you stand tall and admit you deserve death?

Humility and concern for the fate of others

1. I dont have any concerns about the afterlife, I have no sins, show me outside your circular reasoning bible that you personally know of (as you personally beieve in Jesus) that I have sinned - and by that dont mean from your "through Adam we sinned" dogma

In case the above is not clear...show me that you...as in your person that you know me (TheConstruKctionofLight)...
and can categorically under verbal or written oath say that I have sinned

2. I am humble but not according to your Xtian coloured glasses. I dont need Jesus or the Deimurge Jehovah to be concerned for my fellow man

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

but I really think I am going to make it.

I owe you a lot of thanks, and even though this might sound like I'm trying to be funny, it is actually on the spot

Your sincerity is warmly received. Everyone makes it. There is no judgement. There is no hell. We are given countless reincarnations to find our way home to the creator as we are co-creators. Its sad that judgemental religions lead many to create their own hell. You create your heaven and/or hell.

What I find really interesting is that having spent time on atheist websites clearing "christian" leftover memes from my mind, I actually appreciate the love of the Creator even more. Thats the beauty of having that Creator within.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Shiloh7

as I bet they would prefer the right part of religion as opposed to the political and greedy frocked men 's version.

History is written by the conquerors or in this case a composite religion of Mithraism/Zoroastrianism formulated by a dying Rome Empire. They succeeded beyound their wildest dreams

The problem with this idea is that christianity was already several centuries old before this alleged amalgamation or the Babylonian amalgamation.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

If it hasnt been understood I will state again that I used to have a faith in christianity/doctrines/bible et al.

If you find yourself standing before Christ one day and you feel all the weight of sin upon you when before him, will you stand tall and admit you deserve death?

Humility and concern for the fate of others

1. I dont have any concerns about the afterlife, I have no sins, show me outside your circular reasoning bible that you personally know of (as you personally beieve in Jesus) that I have sinned - and by that dont mean from your "through Adam we sinned" dogma

In case the above is not clear...show me that you...as in your person that you know me (TheConstruKctionofLight)...
and can categorically under verbal or written oath say that I have sinned

2. I am humble but not according to your Xtian coloured glasses. I dont need Jesus or the Deimurge Jehovah to be concerned for my fellow man

Well you will get that "dogma" from me. You are trying to escape that condition based on what.....the guy don't know you? The condition of being born in sin through Adam is a far reaching condition that goes way beyond being a sinner because you have actually committed a sin.

Yea dig it. I know how you feel. Its a bad rap being born with a condition that will condemn you without ever having been able to earn it or not. It sucks don't it?

And your not doing anything that your average self righteous hypocrite doesn't when they feel a bit better about themselves than the next sinner. Self right, self humbled, so good in fact that you don't need any outside influence or experience to treat fellow men properly. Don't need Jesus or anybody to show you that, not even mother, dad or the world at large. Just came out of the womb a bit better than your fellow man to begin with. lol

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

If it hasnt been understood I will state again that I used to have a faith in christianity/doctrines/bible et al.

If you find yourself standing before Christ one day and you feel all the weight of sin upon you when before him, will you stand tall and admit you deserve death?

Humility and concern for the fate of others

1. I dont have any concerns about the afterlife, I have no sins, show me outside your circular reasoning bible that you personally know of (as you personally beieve in Jesus) that I have sinned - and by that dont mean from your "through Adam we sinned" dogma

In case the above is not clear...show me that you...as in your person that you know me (TheConstruKctionofLight)...
and can categorically under verbal or written oath say that I have sinned

2. I am humble but not according to your Xtian coloured glasses. I dont need Jesus or the Deimurge Jehovah to be concerned for my fellow man

Ah, so you have convinced yourself of your own self righteousness.. You really think you haven't sinned? Lucifer saw himself the very same way and he had his rear handed to him.

Self pride is your sin pal, but I already knew that just from reading your posts. There are many examples of self pride doing the exact same thing to others throughout history and even before Mankind was a species. And none of those have shown you any lesson. That means logic, reason and intellect are not being used by you to guide your life and you just pegged it yourself. You just convicted yourself. No jury needed.

Pride of self is pure emotion that masks your true nature, it gives you personal power when none really exists for you. Pride tells you that you are great but it lies because all it does is offer an illusion. It is 100% MENTAL and Emotion based self glitter. Everyone can see pride, and you can see the things that it does, but it can't be physically measured or scientifically proven because it is only a state of mind.
You are not using intellect or reason at all bud, just pure emotional energy to lift you up telling yourself you are a step above the crowd.

The lesson here is quite obvious. If you ever do get over yourself and see how childish it is, then you will finally stop being angry at being born and find your real place in life.
The costume of self pride is loaded with gold thread and lots of glitter and it is very comfortable when wearing it, that you never want to take it off, and sometimes they become glued on or even a part of your skin like those people who can't get out of bed and their skin grows right into the bed sheets.

Self pride when worn by the wearer is not noticeable to them, but everyone else can see that you are wearing it. I can see you have given yourself an extreme dose, isn't it intoxicating?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Jesus brought in New Teaching that are not in the old testament.

He taught us that we are The Light of The World (Matthew 5:14).

He said do to others as you would have them do to you (Matthew 7:12). This wasn't in the old testament because some of the verses requires stoning people to death. He taught us to still do good to those who hate us (Matthew 5:44), and told us to not pick up the sword. Christianity (The Teachings of Christ) is a revolutionary religion. He asked us "what credit do you have if you love those who love you? Sinners do the same." (Luke 6:32), we should love our enemies and to give without expecting a return, and then we will have the reward of being called "children of The Highest" (Luke 6:35). Pacifism (nonviolence) is a part of some religions - but the teachings of Christ says to not just stay peaceful without acting on the temptation of violence, but to love and help your enemies, too.

We are told not to judge or else we'll be judged, not to condemn or else we'll be condemn, but if we forgive, then we too will be forgiven (Luke 6:37). If we do not forgive, then neither will we be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). Usually in religions, it is ok to judge, as long as you are not a hypocrite - but Christianity (The Teachings of Christ) says to give others a break, because we are forgiven because we forgive others.

We are told to give to those who ask of us , and to not demand a return from those we choose to lend to. We should treat others as we would like to be treated (Luke 6:30-31).

We are told to do charity (give alms) in secret, not to tell everyone about the ways we give to help others in order to be seen by others. (Matthew 6:2). This teaches us to give in humility, rather than giving in pride.

We are told that we should love one another, because God is love and everyone who loves is born of God and know God and those who know love know God since God is love (1 John 4:7-8). We are told that when we love others, God abides within us (1 John 4:12).

Jesus Christ taught us that God is merciful, and therefore we should be merciful like him (Luke 6:36), and that The Kingdom of God is within us (Luke 17:21).

a reply to: arpgme

He said do to others as you would have them do to you (Matthew 7:12).
This wasn't in the old testament because some of the verses requires stoning people to death.

It is not entirely true, in the time of Jesus there was 2 main schools of judaism

When Hillel died in 10 A.D., the Shammites took over the Pharisee role within the Sanhedrin and became the primary religious influence in Judea, whereas in the Galilee region, where Jesus lived and was raised, the teachings of Hillel held sway. With this in mind, the pharisees that opposed Jesus we often identified as Judeans (or were located in Jerusalem in Judea), whereas the ones sympathetic to Jesus or his followers (like Gamaliel, Hillel’s grandson) were Gallilean.
According to Josephus and other Jewish records, there were a number of key debates being waged between the rabbinical schools. These included divorce, who is my neighbor, hand-washing, marriage in the afterlife, the greatest commandment, healing on the Sabbath (Shammai taught you shouldn’t even pray for the sick on the Sabbath, let alone heal them!), the purpose of the Sabbath and whether Gentiles could be saved. The animosity shown between the Shammites and the Hillelites are hard to understate, with comparisons to the classic Calvinist/Arminian debate holding similarities, with the Shammites holding to a strict fundamentalist view of scripture and practice and the Hillelites holding to a much more lenient, contextual view which emphasized the balance between love for God and love for your neighbor.
As such, it is interesting that in the eight key debates that Jesus entered, he sided with the School of Hillel – or went even farther than Hillel – in seven and only sided with Shammai in one case (that of when divorce is acceptable).

www.fishingtheabyss.com...

And try to compare "do to others as you would have them do to you" with this

he Talmud in tractate Shabbos 31a relates the following well-known story of Hillel:
"On another occasion it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him, "Make me a proselyte, on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot."[1] Thereupon he chased him away with the builder's cubit that was in his hand.[2] When he came before Hillel, (he also asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while standing on one foot) Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah while the rest is commentary; go and learn it."[3]

www.sichosinenglish.org...

Sorry, I don't have time to make broad discussion on this topic. Just googled first references i found to exemplify my thought in crude approximation.

originally posted by: Logarock
originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Shiloh7

as I bet they would prefer the right part of religion as opposed to the political and greedy frocked men 's version.

History is written by the conquerors or in this case a composite religion of Mithraism/Zoroastrianism formulated by a dying Rome Empire. They succeeded beyound their wildest dreams

The problem with this idea is that christianity was already several centuries old before this alleged amalgamation or the Babylonian amalgamation.

Jesus wasn't a Christian because as he lived he was Gnostic; that was left to exponentials, (a viral Paul taking control) to manage this new ministry into the far realm of (ridiculousness in order to make waves, supplicate himself with power/money and it has a name attached ;RCC); Jesus himself during his life time was a GNOSTIC of the ESSENE school (any of you not knowing what this is) is the school of the truth of our physical creation points (understanding who created us where we came from and why we are here; and what the purpose was); remnants remaining are the Rosy Cross and Freemasons (western) ANYONE? knowing any other than the eastern Tibetans?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
Check out this account of the feeding of the 5000. It's slightly different than the Bible's account.

(www.urantia.org...-jump-result-0)

originally posted by: UB2120
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
Check out this account of the feeding of the 5000. It's slightly different than the Bible's account.

(www.urantia.org...-jump-result-0)

First to say here; no one will understand the significance of this book written by another sleeping prophet in 1952; the version of what happened during the creation/history of mankind) and is more accurate historically than any BIBLE written by mankind. Who has the time to read "The Urantia Book" no one (take 2 years off of your life ping ponging truths with the bible, Socrates or Plato), understanding Secrets of the local Universe, the ascending sons of god, administrator Seraphim... come on this is the anti bible but holds more truths (not treating you as reader as a child)...as was written by Archangels, the four Melchizedeks, Mighty messengers, Midwayer commissions, Lifecarriers, YOU TELL ME. Has anyone read the Urantia Book, (I have) and compared or contrasted to the Bible; and not being a protocol 52 believer in DOGMA find it all very interesting (without judgment of its contents). The Urantia Book may be another dimensional take on what the history of this world is was in a /parallel universe. Anyone wanting to take on this 2000 page extravaganza (that has the time; would be well worth it).

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: UB2120
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
Check out this account of the feeding of the 5000. It's slightly different than the Bible's account.

(www.urantia.org...-jump-result-0)

First to say here; no one will understand the significance of this book written by another sleeping prophet in 1952; the version of what happened during the creation/history of mankind) and is more accurate historically than any BIBLE written by mankind. Who has the time to read "The Urantia Book" no one (take 2 years off of your life ping ponging truths with the bible, Socrates or Plato), understanding Secrets of the local Universe, the ascending sons of god, administrator Seraphim... come on this is the anti bible but holds more truths (not treating you as reader as a child)...as was written by Archangels, the four Melchizedeks, Mighty messengers, Midwayer commissions, Lifecarriers, YOU TELL ME. Has anyone read the Urantia Book, (I have) and compared or contrasted to the Bible; and not being a protocol 52 believer in DOGMA find it all very interesting (without judgment of its contents). The Urantia Book may be another dimensional take on what the history of this world is was in a /parallel universe. Anyone wanting to take on this 2000 page extravaganza (that has the time; would be well worth it).

Most of the papers were written in the mid 1930's. It is a very large book, but now they have several audio versions available that makes it more convenient. I know many people, my self included, who listen to it while driving to and from work. I usually suggest to people that are new to the book to hunt and peck specific subjects first and if their interest is peaked to then read part 4 about Jesus and then to start from the beginning. The Foreword and early papers about the Eternal persons of Deity really take you to the limits of human comprehension.

'Was Jesus really who the Bible says he was?'
Yes

originally posted by: Nochzwei


'Was Jesus really who the Bible says he was?'
Yes

No, he was an overlay; a film-atic experience, a cellular (THIS is real Walt Disneyesk STORY BOARD extravaganza). Jesus was a fake? NO as far as HE"S concerned (the real deal), NOT and very unhappy regarding his 'usership' as a/the scapegoat for humanities sins/karma. Believe me he is not at all IN with organized religion (in fact despises it and the courses its taken "a shame on you attitude").

a reply to: UB2120

I read a couple of pages of it. Very interesting. I have seen many writers prove to me that a lot more was going on than we are led to beleive about Jesus so called non-violence and that he did in fact come to claim kis Kingship in the physical. The chess pieces just had to be put in place carefully.

a reply to: Logarock

The problem with this idea is that christianity was already several centuries old before this alleged amalgamation or the Babylonian amalgamation.

christianity was not christianity as we know it prior to the Nicaea Council

a reply to: Logarock

Don't need Jesus or anybody to show you that, not even mother, dad or the world at large. Just came out of the womb a bit better than your fellow man to begin with. lol

Wow...Who said I was better than my fellow man. At least I'm not a misanthrope who would condemn everyone for the "mortal sin" of eating of the fruit of the Tree Of Knowledge and gaining enlightnment. But you're right I cant prove to you whats in my mind.

I know (gnosis) You cant take that away from me with your ramblings and bombastic religious fervour.

Its you who have doubts otherwise you wouldnt ramble on. The Creator doesnt need your help in you being the next crusified Jesus. You know everyone is responsible for their own choices.

In my mind I am free.