We don't need jobs, stop believing this lie

originally posted by: onequestion

They want to keep us from pursuing spirituality and to keep us from being curious as to our origins. It's a tool to divide us and pit us against each other.

Someone wants to keep us busy, But why?

Understand this.

Thanks for raising what is an interesting topic, however, I feel that you are quite way off the mark here and not understanding some basic human principles.

It is nothing to do with spirituality.

It is to do with the concept of 'idle hands'. If humans have nothing to do then they find something to do. That something is quite often destructive. It can be seen quite often amongst the lower classes and the 'benefit class' here in Britain. Refusing to get jobs leads to hanging around searching for something to fill their time. That leads to experimentation. Drugs. Habits. Crime. Often the idle will just commit crime for power (a desire innate within humans ... power not crime).

Some 'philosophers' (not sure what to all them ... 'thinkers' maybe?) believe that when the 'machines' take over they will be so productive that very few humans will need to work. Technology as it continues to progress will allow us to have more free time but that presents a problem for 'them'. The more free time we have the more destructive we'll be and 'they' need order not chaos.

However, there is no 'they' just 'us'. All of us. WE need order not chaos. A world that keeps on with a higher population and more free time is a place that could become very very troublesome.

I agree that machines can, should, and were designed to take over the jobs of human. I don't think this means every job should be left up to a machine but jobs such as fast food have already been successful in using robots and Amazon hopes to open its instant air delivery service in 2015 if all goes well with the FAA. I think people would volunteer their time to take care of important jobs that were left and people would still be seeking educations and wanting to do something amazing with their life as the sedentary life wouldn't be as enjoyable without the mundane 9-5 job that doesn't pay well because there aren't enough available. Now, we have already seen machines take away the jobs of many individuals, but has pay gone up, have prices gone down, have products become more accessible to more people? Kind of but not in the way that they should and now we have a large majority of people unemployed. I think very important jobs such those in politics could be a lot less corrupt in a society like this. Our politicians would consist of volunteer scientists, engineers, teachers, etc. - people who can collaborate and come to the best decision without seeing dollar signs and zeros at the end.

a reply to: bbracken677

I think you're taking it too literally. No one is saying "sit on your ass and do nothing and expect everything". What is ultimately being discussed is that no man should work long hours just to survive but work short hours for a basic living ie. food and shelter, the extras, tv, computer, fridge, car all the so called luxuries you should have to work harder for. I'll ask and answer a fundamental question I've asked before and no one has ever deigned to answer. How much did it cost to put as man on the moon? Simple question eh, 1 billion, 2 billion? Now think the improbable(NOT IMPOSSIBLE) what if everyone gave their time, energy and materials for free? It would have cost nothing, nada. Money as we know it, wages,profit or debt is a man made construct, not a natural state. Think of what Reagan said "what if we faced a threat from outside our world" in that event I would bet you a million to one that money, profit or labour would not even enter the equation.

a reply to: crayzeed

Well, I keep seeing no jobs, not working, eating for free and other such things.

While the concept of utopia is an excellent goal, man is not ready. All you have to do is look around. Funny how the 1%ers are raised as examples, yet those on the bottom rung who choose not to improve their lives through education or job training and would rather just live in a HUD community and draw what they can from the govt.

Even in a Utopian society there would be expectations of some kind from the populace. Whether it be volunteer work, or perhaps something equivalent of a draft to fulfill certain jobs that cannot be performed by machines... perhaps everyone, in the case of a draft system, would have to work for 4 years. It's all guessing at this point.

However, the thing is, man will have to step it up in many ways societally in order for Utopia to work. Right now, I just do not see it happening.

Imagine if something similar to a Utopia, or a step towards it were to be proposed, how many from this website would be claiming some hidden agenda, some unseen conspiracy and would not voluntarily cooperate? Then imagine that on a countrywide basis...people, in general, do not handle significant change well.

Better the devil you know...I am in my comfort zone here, don't make me change, even if the change is for the better. I have seen this view often throughout life.

People are weird animals. Some people like working and knowing their rewards are the result of their hard work. The flip side to that are those who do not want to work at all and want everything handed to them.

a reply to: bbracken677

Your supporting an agenda.

I(me me me) had to work for it so should you!

I know communism is bad.

a reply to: onequestion

An agenda? lol no.

It's just that I consider myself a bit of a student of human behavior.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, strawman.

Communism isn't bad. In it's purest form it is a step closer to utopia. However, due to human nature, it does not work.

If your place of employment offered to give anyone a raise who learned a different job, in order to create additional flexibility, what would you say is the percentage of people who would take advantage of that and continually be working on learning another job?

I ask the question because I have been in that position, as a manager, where those under me could earn raises by learning new jobs. One would have to demonstrate the knowledge practically, by doing the job, as well as taking a test for documentation.

Again, what percentage of people do you think would avail themselves of the opportunities?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: OptimusCrime

If people stop seeing things as separate from themselves including the concepts of life and death then work will cease to exist.

But if "work ceases to exist", and no one has jobs any more, WHO is going to produce and maintain all this technology you want to replace "work" and "jobs" with so that we can all live in the lap of luxury and be hand-fed (well, machine claw-fed, I suppose) grapes and stuff while we're being fanned on our divans?

Work will become life and humanity, the earth and people will want to help you achieve your goals because your goals are theirs.

Seeing things as whole with the dissolving of boundaries and extending our understanding of self to that of the whole.

Oh.

I see now.

This is another of those socialist utopia fantasy threads, where we all become worker bees (or, I suppose in this case, NON-worker bees) subservient to the hive and it's masters.

Carry on, then.

I'm gonna just go over here and see if I can find a free beer I don't have to work for, and no one has to produce...

a reply to: nenothtu

I'm gonna just go over here and see if I can find a free beer I don't have to work for, and no one has to produce...

Grab one for me while you're at it....

a reply to: CranialSponge

Since it's all free...I will take a fifth of one of those top drawer whiskies. Or even a scotch

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: nenothtu

I'm gonna just go over here and see if I can find a free beer I don't have to work for, and no one has to produce...

Grab one for me while you're at it....

Sure thing, just as soon as I figure out the technology to get it there, so's neither of us has to do any actual work to transport it...

a reply to: bbracken677

Since it's all free...I will take a fifth of one of those top drawer whiskies. Or even a scotch

I hear ya.

There's just something about these ridiculously inane threads that drive me to drink.

Can't quite put my finger on what it is though...

interrogation of Rakovsky Chaim en.m.wikipedia.org... killed hunger 2000000+ Ukrainian goyims : I would even say that Hitler was lucky. He did not have gold, so it was not bad attempts to create gold reserve. And because of the security of paper money in his possession was only a huge scientific and operational capacity of the people, that is, the head and hands, he picked up and put them in the provision of its paper money. It was so counter-revolutionary ... because he magically overnight at once eliminate unemployment seven million people.
 K. - Thanks to modernization army.
 R. - What is your re really gives? Hitler achieved this is in peacetime, despite the opposition of all the bourgeois economists who surrounded him, and he used his own system, and it is primarily for non-military production.
 Can you imagine what would happen if this system would be adopted more and more of the state? For example, Britain? Then you realize that this counter-revolution.
 And the danger has not passed.
 Thank God that Hitler used his system not from the previous theory, but empirically, and therefore he did not have time to formulate a scientific way as a formula to follow. This means that he is not thinking about their economic system, did not apply to her deduction, induction, that he did not formulate a complete economic theory of the economic system to the other. However, there is always the danger that someone can do it for him. And this is very serious. Because such a theory may appear at any moment. We therefore deliberately not criticize this economic system of Hitler, it has not turned so that the theoretical discussion will stimulate the formulation and systematization of the effectiveness of economic doctrines
P.S I hope this will be implemented in the Novorossia and the guys like this youtu.be... will accelerate the victory and some will live in this small but with great potential republic

I thought this was going to be a thread about what will happen when robotics becomes so advanced that there's no good reason to hire people to do the jobs computers can do better and cheaper.

What happens when most things are automated?

a reply to: Surefire

Then we get hit with the delete button by the elites, the only people who can afford them.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: OptimusCrime

If people stop seeing things as separate from themselves including the concepts of life and death then work will cease to exist.

Work will become life and humanity, the earth and people will want to help you achieve your goals because your goals are theirs.

Seeing things as whole with the dissolving of boundaries and extending our understanding of self to that of the whole.

Dude...I understand where you are coming from, but in truth...it isn't possible. At least not with a government in place. Property taxes, and taxes in general. We are required to pay just to live and breathe. Well...at least if we want shelter, use of the roads, etc. And on top of that, as an example...if you grow your own tobacco and smoke it...in PA you owe the state $13.50 per carton. Just for growing a plant.

Once you tear down the government, both federal and state...lets talk. I'm all in favor of the barter system and no government involvement in our lives. But until you do these things...you will become a criminal.

I'm going a step further if you don't mind WAA

Yes I see OP's assertion, unrealistic as it is. I would KILL to have a society based on lack of oppression and perfect harmony and perfect trust but there is a massive MASSIVE flaw in this whole thing

Throughout history in almost all organisms there is selfishness and greed. Basic life forms evolve to become the stronger and survive. Animals fight for the right to breed. Humans are just plain selfish and greedy. I admit it...I am greedy...I try hard not to be but I really am and no offense to OP but OP is greedy too and it only takes a fraction of OP's posting history to prove it. But still, if OP's world 'were' possible I would live in it and contribute all day every day and take only what I needed...but it's not...and here is why from the human perspective

People can pretend all day that media and government and politics of the macro and micro scale are at fault and their answer is 50% right and 50% misunderstanding of an extremely important illusion that for some reason people really never notice, myself included until recent.

These systems, the government, ISIS, alphabet agencies, dictators whoever are MADE OF PEOPLE. The only way you can have a group of people is to start with a person. I have yet to meet a person who doesn't have at least a modicum of greed and selfishness in them and it is rampant and super clear and blatant to any observer. I can pick on anyone I want and prove my point

OP has this grand scheme of harmony and wants to rid the world of greed, all on the back of two posts about how Baby Boomers should leave or die so he and his generation can take over (also called them stupid) and about how it's criminal that college students have massive debt and are victims even though there are tens and tens of pages of warnings and cautions before taking said loan AND you have to sign over and over that you understand...yet OP still thinks harmony is possible despite all this greed than even OP has in them ((OP I am super sorry I don't know your gender))

But hold up...let's not just be rude...let's talk about me Kyo. Let's pick on me too!

Look at my history of posts ((which is pretty pathetic)) and if you don't want to do so, let me tell you all about my greed and selfishness. I talk all day about wanting Socialism and the perfect order yet I just have to have my iPhone and my iPad and now I really want a Mac...I don't need a Mac specifically to function at my job...heck my job GIVES me a computer. Yeah I have online school work to do...but can I not do that with a $300 Toshiba? you betcha! But no I go on and on and on about how I want to bring about social change...yet to this date I've done a bit of protesting but nothing major to make a change

Want more? How about the fact that I HAD to buy a $30,000 Honda? I am pretty sure a beater could get me to work...I am pretty sure a used car could do the same. I've left lights on yet complained about how the environment needs to be protected

Ok...I think I have beaten myself enough...OP I mean it...we are ALL selfish and greedy...some to greater extent but we are

As I once told a really cool poster here, what if tomorrow we tear down the government and within an instant, your utopia is in place? How long? How long until greed kicks in and someone says "well I will shingle your house, but you owe me big." How long until someone begins hoarding supplies just due to fear or greediness?

You have to think about this carefully...We WERE in your situation...hunter-gatherers in small societies worked together and fed themselves with minimal concern for advancement. But what of the two very serious issues we face with that lifestyle?

1. Without advancement, we can't fight things that seek to harm us. If H50N1 ((or whatever number)) comes tomorrow and we don't advance...what then? We die? The bubonic plague could have wiped us out and it sure tried to. We advanced...hygiene and vaccines and quarantine were advancements we made. The problem with your dream scenario is, that without some level of competition, advancement doesn't occur at a rapid enough rate and unfortunately greed makes it so that in order to advance society, society likewise needs to have reward to feel the need to advance because we are greedy and need things.

2. The other problem is what do we do right now? Do we all destroy our laptops? Turn off the juice to our houses? Put in wells and pitch the faucet? Yeah we may not need to do all that but again, what percentage of the population is going to advocate for this dream world? 1%? 5%? heck even 10-15% would be amazing but they are just going to quit their jobs and the rest of the population will say "thank goodness! New jobs just opened!" We like our toys. I know it's sad, but we do. I am not saying I am perfect. In fact I am so far from perfect I couldn't see perfect with the Hubble AND its lens correction...I like my Honda...I like my laptop and in good balance there isn't anything wrong with that so long as it isn't obsession that harms myself or others.

The result is this...I DO have a wholesale, iron clad plan to make society perfect. I am 100% guaranteeing it will work

Ready?

"Get rid of people"

That's how you pull it off...because as long as biology and the mind exist, people are going to compete and we are going to be wanting the bigger and better for a myriad of reasons

I don't like it OP and I actually agree despite how this response looks. I would kill to be able to have Utopia as you describe it. And we actually CAN have Utopia even with our pretty toys...but it just isn't going to happen because the human condition is much stronger than dreams sometimes

I am not saying it is a 100% guarantee that your dream will fail...anything IS possible...I am just saying I am about 99.9% it isn't going to work