Hydrogenated oil What you don't know can kill you!

I would like to start a topic about an importan health issue here concerning Hydrogenated oils.

we have been consuming a steady diet of these terrible trans-fatty acids for some time now.

I would like to know who it was that originaly created them.

How long they have bee in use?

they are chemically enhanced molecules, created by forcing H atoms into the holes of the natural cis form fatty acids, thus making them more ridgid.
As a result we can increase the shelf life of our foods and make it easier to spread. the down side of this is it is completely reeking havoc with our bodies. the end result being a shorter life span for the consumer.

As a result of thiis research I'v e decided to radiculy change my eating habbits. You will find this hybrid death molocule in everything you eat if it has been proccessed.

Let s have a good disscussion. If this is your first time hearing about this hold on to your seat you may even change your diet!



Edit:to fix thread title

[edit on 7-12-2004 by kinglizard]

I'm with you on this one, gave up eating these oils a couple of years ago.

Here's a couple of links:

"pro": Edible Oils - History

"anti": Stealth Killers

The purpose is to create a longer shelf life, plus they're also incredibly chaep to produce.

Originally posted by Graystar
I would like to know who it was that originaly created them.

trans fats exist in nature no?

they are chemically enhanced molecules, created by forcing H atoms into the holes of the natural cis form fatty acids

You make it sound so mean, the poor double bonded carbons being violated by these insidious hydrogen atoms and resulting in an evil trans oil. Instead of having the carbon groups on the 'same' side of the double bond (cis), trans fats have their carbon groups on opposite sides of the bond. This is not a 'trivial' matter, but lets keep some perspective.

I don't think anyone will disagree that proper diet is a good thing, but this doesn't seem like quite the nefarious and evil conspiracy you are making it out to be. Its not exactly something new either right? Heart disease is aproblem and a large part of that problem is trans-fats no?

Originally posted by Nygdan

trans fats exist in nature no?

Nygdan, to my knowledge transfats are EXTREMELY rare in the natural world, with only a small amount being produced in the gut of dairy cows via the action of bacteria. What other sources do you know of?

they are chemically enhanced molecules, created by forcing H atoms into the holes of the natural cis form fatty acids

You make it sound so mean, the poor double bonded carbons being violated by these insidious hydrogen atoms and resulting in an evil trans oil. Instead of having the carbon groups on the 'same' side of the double bond (cis), trans fats have their carbon groups on opposite sides of the bond. This is not a 'trivial' matter, but lets keep some perspective.

You are correct, this isn't a trivial matter, but these molecules absolutely alter membrane fluidity. This in turn impairs active transport enzymes for sodium, potassium, calcium, and magnesium. Membranes in this condition are also subject to enchanced free radical attack and damage. A high intake of trans fat has been linked to a variety of free radical and degenerative conditions such as cancer, arthritis, and cardiovascular disease. I don't think and 'evil intentions' were implied, as transfats were around long before we understood its complexities. Obviously, I think perspective is a great thing, but I won't put this s*&t into my body, and I don't advise anyone else to either.

I don't think anyone will disagree that proper diet is a good thing, but this doesn't seem like quite the nefarious and evil conspiracy you are making it out to be. Its not exactly something new either right? Heart disease is aproblem and a large part of that problem is trans-fats no?

Nygdan, as always your opinion is appreciated and respected. Do you take issue with this because it's posted in a conspiracy forum like ATS? Do you feel while it's unhealthy to consume, it's not a conspiracy and thus doesn't belong in this forum? Not trying to set you up for an argument or anything, I am just curious.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't think anyone will disagree that proper diet is a good thing, but this doesn't seem like quite the nefarious and evil conspiracy you are making it out to be. Its not exactly something new either right? Heart disease is aproblem and a large part of that problem is trans-fats no?

In fact it has some similarities to a conspiracy, in that the industry doesn't seem to spend enough resources to scrutinize the health effects of trans-fats and find an alternative. I think it's similar to the fast food chains (fill in your favorite burger place here), which knowlingly serve their customers a damaging diet but are quite happy to be doing so.

It has been noted that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't have incentives to promote healthy lifestyles and right diets. They are happy to have $500 billion in worldwide sales of drugs instead, a large portion of which are drugs that correct the results of bad habits and foods.

So I think it's good to be aware (and suspicious).

man you city people . Me I live in the country and here back in the woods we still do most things the old fashion way even though we will take the tek short cut from time to time.
It called freash produce and even you people can pratice this time honered tridichion. Its easy first buy your meat from a good clean meat market instead of the Giant grocers .This way your getting meat that hasent been messed with .(ps the tast is much better as well.)
then go down to the nearest vege stand (theres plenty of them just look up your local fleamarket. ) and manny of the veges and fruit there are farm fresh to the point were they wernt even spraed with pesticides.
you will know this because the veges have a very short shelf life.
Now take all your goods home and take two hours to prepair dinner .
yes it does that longer but there are a few shortcuts get a good cook book.
Now everonce in a wile (lets say once mabby twice a week ) splurge eat out eat junk if you like get a tv dinner it wont hert . this way you minimise the cemicals you injest. Ps limit your soda intake .coffee and tea is ok suger is fine in moderation .Pss brown suger is unbleached less prossed but the tast is close to the same.
Last check up on my kid the doc couldent find a SINGAL dificency in his blood and we dont even do the vitaman pills thing with our kids.

Originally posted by mattison0922
Do you take issue with this because it's posted in a conspiracy forum like ATS? Do you feel while it's unhealthy to consume, it's not a conspiracy and thus doesn't belong in this forum? Not trying to set you up for an argument or anything, I am just curious.

Perhaps that is my issue with the post, I'd agree that anything that gets people aware is certainly good on its own, but I'm not convinced that an industry wide conspiracy is required to get different companies to create and use the stuff.

aelita
in that the industry doesn't seem to spend enough resources to scrutinize the health effects of trans-fats and find an alternative

Why should they? They're profiteering enterprises, they aren't going to self regulate.

Whatever the extent of it I wouldn't say that its anything like say, the cigarette industry or something liek that no?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Perhaps that is my issue with the post, I'd agree that anything that gets people aware is certainly good on its own, but I'm not convinced that an industry wide conspiracy is required to get different companies to create and use the stuff.

IMO, there is no conspiracy here. Simply, this is a product that was developed prior to understanding its full implications. In the midst of this discovery, hydrogenated oils had a chance to grab a large share of this 'solidified oils' market. Certainly hydrogenated oils were pushed and marketed, but this doesn't amount to a conspiracy. And there certainly doesn't appear to be any debate about the health-effects of trans FA's.

in that the industry doesn't seem to spend enough resources to scrutinize the health effects of trans-fats and find an alternative

This same statement could be applied to nearly ANY industries tendency to self-regulate. Furthermore, the health effects are known... it's bad. As far as alternatives are concerned... they exist, butter, lard, cocoa butter, coconut oil, all saturated or close to it, all solid at room temperature, even some cholesterol free sources. The last thing the public needs is another synthetic food item.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Graystar
I would like to know who it was that originaly created them.

trans fats exist in nature no?

they are chemically enhanced molecules, created by forcing H atoms into the holes of the natural cis form fatty acids

You make it sound so mean, the poor double bonded carbons being violated by these insidious hydrogen atoms and resulting in an evil trans oil. Instead of having the carbon groups on the 'same' side of the double bond (cis), trans fats have their carbon groups on opposite sides of the bond. This is not a 'trivial' matter, but lets keep some perspective.

I don't think anyone will disagree that proper diet is a good thing, but this doesn't seem like quite the nefarious and evil conspiracy you are making it out to be. Its not exactly something new either right? Heart disease is aproblem and a large part of that problem is trans-fats no?

this topic was not ment to be "conspirisy topic," I just did't know where to post it.

If you want to eat it then eat it, its that simple. it will kill you hoever very slowly. And However long you do live, you are absolutely shaving years off your life by consuming these products. Don't pretend that it wont. Unfortunately most people don't take steps to preserve there lifes until it is too late that's why there are so many drugs for lowering colesterol and high blood presure etc. But they can't save you becasue by then the damage is done. Besides that these drugs reek havoc with the Liver and other organs, thus making it necessary to take other drugs to stop these effects. And on and on. Huh? May be it is a conspirisy? LOL.

By the way this kind of trans fat occur rarely naturally, Cow milk for example,( but that is another subject) it is produced using heat and a catalyst!


You are right Heart diesease is not new but aside from bad genetics heart desease is a diet problem. A single twinky has a shelf life of twenty five years enjoy it!

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Graystar]

Hydrgenated oils aint nothing new. Most folk who keep up with health news realise that at best it is worthless for nutrition and at worst is harmful. What worst is the amount of foods you find this in. Not just spreads and such but also many other foods and biscuits.
Try going through your fridge and cupboards looking at the ingredients, you may shock yourself. The only benifit is at least manufacturers have to put the full contents on packets, so you can avoid it if your sensible.

To give a brief basic idea of its creation, it involves bubbling hydrogen through the oils so that it forces it to become soluble in water, the byprduct of this is it increases the amount of satuated fat contained in the end produce. As we all know, satuated fats are little killers in their own packet if left to go unchecked by monosatuates.

To give a brief basic idea of its creation, it involves bubbling hydrogen through the oils so that it forces it to become soluble in water,

You can bubble all the hydrogen you want through fats, and they will never become soluble in water. Saturation certainly doesn't increase the solubility of fats. Furthermore the process isn't this simple; it involves heavy metal catalysts, simply bubbling hydrogen through through fat isn't going to make it saturated, at least not in an industrially usable way. The process, as I understand was first developed using Ni catalysts, and has since moved on to using Pt or Pd catalysts... at least this is what they teach you in organic chemistry.

the byprduct of this is it increases the amount of satuated fat contained in the end produce.

It's not a byproduct, it's the point. Hydrogenation has nothing to do with making fats soluble, the point is to make fats solid at room temperature.

As we all know, satuated fats are little killers in their own packet if left to go unchecked by monosatuates.

While I certainly agree, that too much saturated fat is bad, there exist those who would argue otherwise. Mercola's site goes into this in great detail. Not saying I agree with his outlook but some would argue that saturated fats are in fact, healthy, and that the human being is more 'evolved' to digest saturated fats.

Originally posted by mattison0922

To give a brief basic idea of its creation, it involves bubbling hydrogen through the oils so that it forces it to become soluble in water,

You can bubble all the hydrogen you want through fats, and they will never become soluble in water. Saturation certainly doesn't increase the solubility of fats. Furthermore the process isn't this simple; it involves heavy metal catalysts, simply bubbling hydrogen through through fat isn't going to make it saturated, at least not in an industrially usable way. The process, as I understand was first developed using Ni catalysts, and has since moved on to using Pt or Pd catalysts... at least this is what they teach you in organic chemistry.

the byprduct of this is it increases the amount of satuated fat contained in the end produce.

It's not a byproduct, it's the point. Hydrogenation has nothing to do with making fats soluble, the point is to make fats solid at room temperature.

As we all know, satuated fats are little killers in their own packet if left to go unchecked by monosatuates.

While I certainly agree, that too much saturated fat is bad, there exist those who would argue otherwise. Mercola's site goes into this in great detail. Not saying I agree with his outlook but some would argue that saturated fats are in fact, healthy, and that the human being is more 'evolved' to digest saturated fats.

Thats why we use the words "brief" and "basic"

You want to know what a real killer is, just read this article. I bet most wouldn't be able to give up the addiction. And this was written way back in 1957.

seasilver.threadnet.com...

Originally posted by timberwulf
You want to know what a real killer is, just read this article. I bet most wouldn't be able to give up the addiction. And this was written way back in 1957.

seasilver.threadnet.com...

Tim, agreed. It's no good, and it's a tough one. I am trying really hard to give it up. I am currently only consuming 'evaporated cane juice', which in my mind is better, but I'd like to get that out of my diet as well. I also attempt to avoid ALL refined carbs, no white bread for me.