Auschwitz guard, 93, charged with 300,000 counts of accessory to murder

Duplicated please delete.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Except in this case, and pretty much the bulk of the others, prosecution is coming from Germany or other nations and not solely Israel. This prosecution is being conducted by Germany.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Xcathdra

Why does your position not surprise me. How much was your soul worth? Was it worth it?

I Agree. Something's shouldn't be forgotten. Like events in the financial world in 1933. All wars, are bankers wars. Was World War 2 an exception to the rule?

What in the hell are you talking about and accusing me of?

I answered a question asking why this individual should be prosecuted.

I answered stating he should be prosecuted and that we should not forget the names of the people who died. Are you stating these individuals should not be prosecuted?

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
I feel that sentencing him to prison at this point would just be pointless......, but given his age I think nothing productive would come of it. ...... .....So the only reason to imprison him would be as a punishment, but after all these years I don't see the point.

t.

interesting comments.
so in your opinion when does the statute of limitations run out?

i am baffled by this..

meh, its been so long... just let him fly..

wow

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Except in this case, and pretty much the bulk of the others, prosecution is coming from Germany or other nations and not solely Israel. This prosecution is being conducted by Germany.

You are right as usual. Germany is leading/has lead several of these prosecutions and they take the holocaust to heart over there. Atoning for past national sins I guess.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Mmmhmm.

You said names. What names? Could you provide me some empirical evidence of those names? Do you have a non-fiction, non-hearsay, sourced, consolidated, verifiable list with bibliography information that I can verify the sources myself with? Including verified cause of death? Gassing, Typhus, Disease, Starvation, Natural Causes, etc?

Or are my standards too high?

Second, as I said, I agree some things should not be forgotten. Like events in 1933. Namely surrounding currency at the time. Could you provide us information of this time, pre-war history, what had happened, and, the immediate aftermath?

Note the year of Authorship.

a reply to: Not Authorized

You never answered my question of what you are accusing me of. Nor did you answer my question about prosecutions.


* - Dachau Records

* - National Archives Holocaust Records - Ancestry.com

* - Memorial and Museum Auschwitz - Birkenau

* - International Tracing Service - Contains the largest collection of records

* - Arolsen Collection

* - Catalog of official NAZI documents pertaining to the holocaust

Are you one of those people who think the holocaust never occurred? Secondly even if you removed any and all testimony from victims you still have all the records the NAZI's kept about their actions in those camps.


ETA -
Heinrich Himmler

In the spring of 1945, Germany's chances of winning the war and Himmler's relationship with Hitler had both deteriorated. Himmler, therefore, considered independently negotiating a peace settlement. His masseur, Felix Kersten, who had moved to Sweden, acted as an intermediary in negotiations with Count Folke Bernadotte, head of the Swedish Red Cross. Letters were exchanged between the two men,[170] and direct meetings were arranged by Walter Schellenberg of the RSHA.[171]

Himmler and Hitler met for the last time on 20 April 1945—Hitler's birthday—in Berlin, and Himmler swore total loyalty to Hitler. At a military briefing on that day, Hitler stated that he would not be leaving Berlin, in spite of Soviet advances. Along with Göring, Himmler quickly left the city after the briefing.[172] On 21 April, Himmler met with Norbert Masur, a Swedish representative of the World Jewish Congress, to discuss the release of Jewish concentration camp inmates. [173] As a result of these negotiations, about 20,000 people were released in the White Buses operation.[174] During the negotiations, Himmler falsely claimed that the crematoria had been built to deal with the dead from a typhus epidemic. He also claimed very high survival rates for the camps at Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen, even as these sites were liberated and it became obvious that his figures were false.

a reply to: Swills

Can't help but wonder if this same "standard of guilt" will be passed on to the check-point guards at the border with Gaza?

There were quite a few Palestinians killed by the Israeli bombings. Or so I heard.

Can some one tell me were it all ends!

originally posted by: teamcommander
a reply to: Swills

Can't help but wonder if this same "standard of guilt" will be passed on to the check-point guards at the border with Gaza?

There were quite a few Palestinians killed by the Israeli bombings. Or so I heard.

Can some one tell me were it all ends!

Would your position also apply to the Hamas side of the coin? Since Gaza has a direct border with Egypt, does it apply to them as well?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: teamcommander

a reply to: Swills



Can't help but wonder if this same "standard of guilt" will be passed on to the check-point guards at the border with Gaza?



There were quite a few Palestinians killed by the Israeli bombings. Or so I heard.



Can some one tell me were it all ends!

Would your position also apply to the Hamas side of the coin? Since Gaza has a direct border with Egypt, does it apply to them as well?

And what position is it that I have?
I thought I was asking a question; but what do I know?
I guess, since you seem to think something may be wrong with that question, the same "standard of guit" should also be placed on our people who stand guard at Guantanamo if it turns out some of these prisoners were tortured. This is considered a war crime according to the Genevia Convention, so they could be held over for trial also.

Does this meet your idea of my having a position when I ask a question?

I guess too many questions could open up a big can of worms if it turned out that "all men were created equal".

a reply to: Swills

This is no longer about seeking justice, but revenge. Punishing a 93 year old man for crimes no one can be certain that he committed is insane. And just because someone was a guard, doesn't mean they partook in murder. Perhaps we should start going after the GitMo guards now? Or maybe the truck drivers delivering supplies?

Oh well, in the end the 93 year old guy won anyways. His life is almost out, he lived free.

a reply to: Auricom

That post have more common sense than anything else I have read so far. Thanks.

(sorry if somebody posted something within the same lines, I didn't read all the posts)

originally posted by: teamcommander
And what position is it that I have?

Your position of wanting the same standard of guilt being applied.

originally posted by: teamcommander
I thought I was asking a question; but what do I know?

You were asking a question. I merely noted that in addition to Israeli border guards, does it also apply to the Hamas side?

originally posted by: teamcommander
I guess, since you seem to think something may be wrong with that question, the same "standard of guit" should also be placed on our people who stand guard at Guantanamo if it turns out some of these prisoners were tortured. This is considered a war crime according to the Genevia Convention, so they could be held over for trial also.

Actually I dont think there is anything wrong with the question. I merely asked an extension about holding Hamas in the same light. I am sorry if the question threw you for a loop.

Secondly the CAT partially applies to the US in that any foreign treaty signed and ratified becomes a part of the US Federal Body of Law, allowing it to be modified by our Congress and challenged by our citizens. So while the US is a signatory not all of its requirements apply courtesy of the US court system.

If you wish to go after a nation maybe you should learn about its laws first.

originally posted by: teamcommander
Does this meet your idea of my having a position when I ask a question?

What it does is confirm that you have a mouth full of wise ass and were incapable of reading my post as a question built on your question. Instead you took it as something its not, completely failing to understand the argument behind my question.

originally posted by: teamcommander
I guess too many questions could open up a big can of worms if it turned out that "all men were created equal".

Or misunderstanding a question and answering it in a manner that is ignorant and defensive instead of asking me to clarify what it is I meant.

originally posted by: douglas5
In his book 'Behold a Pale Horse,' former US Naval Intelligence Officer William Cooper relates a story associated with the IG Farben Chemical Company.

In the early 1940s, that company employed a Polish chemist and salesman who sold cyanide gas, Zyklon B and Malathion to the Nazis for extermination of groups of people in Auschwitz.

After the war the salesman joined the Catholic church and was ordained a priest.

In 1958 he became Poland's youngest bishop and after Pope John Paul I's mysterious death, the ex-cyanide gas salesman Karol Wojtyla was elected to the papacy as Pope John Paul II in October 1978.

In March 2000, he publicly apologized not for his war effort, but for the wickedness of the Christian religion. The plea for forgiveness also sought to pardon the use of 'violence in the service of truth' an often used fragile and treoubling referenece to the Inquisition.

The apology read by the Pope was the result of four years of work by a panel of 28 theologians and scholars and was by far the most sweeping act by a leader of a major religion.


www.remnantofgod.org...

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Tapping123
a reply to: Swills

You know I am the first person to say some folks are too old for jail

But this i support, these people are bad

This guy was a guard not one of the people who ran the killing machine. If someone said to you either guard these prisoners or get shot what would you do? If they prosecute this man then they should prosecute everyone that helped the Germans that includes the Kapos the people who worked for them in the labor camps and the ones who ran the ovens.

Good point. You'd have to prosecute George Soros even.

Yes I'm sure a 13 year old helped them quite a bit also he never worked for the Nazis he worked for the Jewish Council. Why wasn't granddaddy Bush prosecuted? That's how the Bush fortune got it's start from helping to finance Hitler.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Tapping123
a reply to: Swills

You know I am the first person to say some folks are too old for jail

But this i support, these people are bad

This guy was a guard not one of the people who ran the killing machine. If someone said to you either guard these prisoners or get shot what would you do? If they prosecute this man then they should prosecute everyone that helped the Germans that includes the Kapos the people who worked for them in the labor camps and the ones who ran the ovens.

Good point. You'd have to prosecute George Soros even.

Yes I'm sure a 13 year old helped them quite a bit also he never worked for the Nazis he worked for the Jewish Council. Why wasn't granddaddy Bush prosecuted? That's how the Bush fortune got it's start from helping to finance Hitler.

I'd say a Judenrat who helped his uncle turn in his neighbors so they could get their stuff as a reward probably is more culpable than a conscript who was made to stand guard by the gate or sort through stuff in a warehouse.

originally posted by: filosophia
ATS does not allow discussion of holocaust denial so I guess you'll never know what we think about this.

I always wondered why that is, and why in some countries you can be prosecuted for it. To me it is like keeping a truth or untruth down with a hammer...Makes no sence... does it?

Cases like this really calibrate our moral compasses and often say a lot about our world-views.

On the one hand, we feel sympathy for a 93 year old man facing punishment for something that happened over 70 years ago. The 'something' also occurred during a period when the world lost its mind and some people, on all sides, did horrendous things.

On the other hand, should we put the feelings of the old man above the feelings of the relatives of those he was partially responsible for killing? Should survivors of that camp, and their living relatives, show forgiveness and let him go?

He's on record saying he was only a guard who managed the possessions that were removed from the prisoners. He also said this:

In 2005 he told Der Spiegel magazine he recalled one incident on “ramp duty” when he heard a baby crying. “I saw another SS soldier grab the baby by the legs,” he said. “He smashed the baby’s head against the iron side of a truck until it was silent.”

link

Tricky to call, huh? If he saw this happen, why didn't he try and stop it? What might have happened to him if he intervened? If he couldn't stop it because he'd be killed himself, those apologists for Nazis need to explain why that was the case. If he didn't stop it because the Nazis were nice guys and the guy killing the baby was a bad apple, that would make him complicit and subject to charges.

In a modern context, if you were guarding the door to a house where your colleagues were murdering babies and adults, should you be excused?

a reply to: Kandinsky

There's a new way they are looking at things now. I was reading, in Macleans I think, about 4 months ago that you can be charged now if you worked at a camp. Even a cook, as he supported the SS.

a reply to: intrepid

It's tough to call isn't it? Those prison camps were hellish and it makes sense that the people enforcing the 'hell' should still be accountable.

He might have been a stand-up guy with family and had no way out of what he had to do. Or maybe he wasn't and was a participant in the killings?

The world won't be better off he serves time. It won't be a deterrent in the future either.

He's been cut loose before on lack of evidence and it's the evidence that matters under law.