Think you dont live in a police state? Think again.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Gonna be a shakedown.

“We’re going to start over here in this corner. We’re going to work our way around, and if we go by, if you’re clean, you get to go out the front door.”

Damn, and I forgot deodorant.

No drugs, no tickets, no warrants officer, and I just used Right Guard.

I highly doubt there was a problem with the liquor license, If there was they would have just shut the place down.

Maybe they were behind on those other payments?

a reply to: kalunom

Can't repeat this enough. So simple.

yell "BAR FIGHT!"..........
On a serious note. This makes me sick, what a horrible violation of rights going on here. I would have refused a search immediately. No way in H-E double hockey sticks would I ever, ever stand for that crap. Gotta draw a line somewhere, don't we people? Why are the masses letting this happen........? Disgusting.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
a reply to: Sublimecraft

That's the law. Doesn't matter to them anymore though. They will push their boundaries until they are forced to stop. If its okay once they will do it as often as they please.

Exactly, they are seeing how much they can get away with and the more they get away with they will keep going further .it's to the point that they don't even know what is allowed and don't really care. Every time this happens the more freedom we loose. One day freedom will be a word used in memory of past times.

a reply to: all2human

Funny cause this is a common occurrence there. Except if u pay off the cops though. Why are the placeswith the strictest laws most corrupt ??

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Came across an article talking about this.

"it's a known meth & heroin distribution bar. Its been under investigation for over a year...with over 5 people under 21 dead from being there & its a BAR you must be 21 to ENTER. They have violated the law serving minors. BUSTED F***TARDS! I hope they all go to prison & shut it down...too many kids DEAD from this place"

another comment from the article reads:

"Seems to me that someone has probably told police illegal stuff is going on. There is a post from december were someone is saying you can get a coke or heroin hookup. Maybe the owners should pay more attention to what their patrons are doin. I find it very hard to believe they were raided for no reason.

Perhaps there is more to this than we outsiders know, unless we have a member who lives there and knows this bar well.

a reply to: IntroduceALittleIrony

Regardless of the circumstances, the searches were illegal.

Here are some excerpts from the chapter on Stops and Warrentless Searches in the NC Defender Manual, issued by the Institute of Government. Emphasis is mine.

15.1 Did the Officer Seize the Defendant?
The Fourth Amendment prohibits an officer from stopping, or “seizing,” a person without
legally sufficient grounds, and evidence obtained by an officer after seizing a person may
not be used to justify the seizure. See FARB at 23. It is therefore critical for Fourth
Amendment purposes to determine exactly when a seizure occurs.

A. Consensual Encounters
“Free to Leave” Test. As a general rule, a person is seized when, in view of all of the
circumstances, a reasonable person would have believed that he or she was not “free to
leave.” See United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. 544 (1980); Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S.
491 (1983); see also Florida v. Bostick, 501 U.S. 429 (1991).....

....A seizure clearly occurs if an officer takes a person into custody, physically restrains the
person, or otherwise requires the person to submit to the officer’s authority. An encounter
may be considered “consensual” and not a seizure, however, if a person willingly
engages in a conversation with an officer.

Factors. Factors to consider in determining whether an encounter is consensual or a
seizure include:
• number of officers present
• display of weapon by officer
• physical touching of defendant
• use of language or tone of voice indicating that compliance is required
• holding a person’s identification papers or property
• blocking the person’s path

So far it's sounding like these patrons were seized.
But what about reasonable suspicion or the fact that it was a "known" drug bar?

A. Reasonable Suspicion
Officers may make a brief investigative stop of a person—that is, they may seize a
person—if they have reasonable suspicion of criminal activity by the person.

I don't think they had reason to believe everyone in the bar was selling drugs. Especially since

B. High Drug Areas
Presence in a high-drug area, standing alone, does not constitute reasonable suspicion.
Compare cases finding stop valid (State v. Butler, 331 N.C. 227, 415 S.E.2d 719 (1992);
State v. Cornelius, 104 N.C. App. 583, 410 S.E.2d 504 (1991)) with cases finding stop
invalid (Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979); State v. Fleming, 106 N.C. App. 165, 415
S.E.2d 782 (1992)).

E. “Plain Feel” and Frisks for Evidence
General Prohibition. An officer who stops a person on reasonable suspicion may not
frisk the person for evidence. See Ybarra v. Illinois, 444 U.S. 85 (1979).

A. Probable Cause
Required for Arrest or Search. Although reasonable suspicion may be sufficient to
support an officer’s initial stop and investigative actions, an officer must have probable
cause to make an arrest or to search for evidence (absent consent to search, discussed
below). See, e.g., State v. Wise, 117 N.C. App. 105, 449 S.E.2d 774 (1994)

Now let's see what rights these patrons had if they consented to being searched:

Voluntariness of Consent. Consent must be voluntary. See Schneckloth v. Bustamonte,
412 U.S. 218 (1973) (voluntariness determined from totality of circumstances); United
States v. Worley, 193 F.3d 380 (6th Cir. 1999) (defendant did not give voluntary consent
when he said, “You’ve got the badge, I guess you can” in response to officer’s request to
search); United States v. Washington, 151 F.3d 1354 (11th Cir. 1998) (officer’s show of
authority on bus was sufficiently coercive to render passenger’s consent involuntary in
absence of indication from officer that consent could be refused); Carmouche v. State, 10
S.W.3d 323 (Tex. Crim. App. 2000) (consent to search involuntary when defendant was
surrounded by officers, backed against hood of car, and told to assume position).

From the video, it seems like there was certainly an "absence of indication from officer that consent could be refused".

Withdrawal of Consent. A person may withdraw consent at any time prior to
completion of the search. See 3 LAFAVE § 8.1(c), at 631–34.

Something tells me that these officers wouldn't have listened if someone had exercised their right to withdraw consent before the search was over!

Link

You can bet if I was in there and they pulled this off that I would be getting a high profile civil rights attorney and filing a complaint with the FBI Civil Rights Division and sue the living hell out of them, the department, and whatever government they were operating under, be it local, county, Federal, or international.

They are violating your civil rights and as such are wide open to a lawsuit. If more people would do this, the financial loses of the department and local government over them would crack down on them and several may lose their job or be convicted of a crime and not be police any more. It would have a chilling effect on all police departments as people started winning these cases and officers started losing their jobs.

They may think they are above the law because they intimidate people and lie to them in their duties. This is allowed. However, they are still held up to the law. Right now people are too afraid to challenge them for violating their civil rights.

Now, let me make it perfectly clear. You have to comply with them even if they are in the wrong or you will be charged with some other crime like resisting arrest, obstructing an investigation, etc. So, let them do their thing, but make it clear in a calm normal voice that they are violating your civil rights and you will be consulting your civil rights attorney and filing a lawsuit. Of course, in a situation like happened here, there will be a plethora of witnesses for your side.

Until the American people learn their rights, learn how to avoid causing any other crime in the process, and then getting the right people to back you up, this will keep happening. There are many US Attorneys and even local special prosecutors that will take the case and if they feel the department that violated these laws are too apt to retaliate, they will bring in powerful attorneys from out of their jurisdiction. For example a friend here in Jax,. Fl. had two such civil rights violations and sued the department and won in both cases. He had to get an out of state attorney that was well know publicly and within the legal community and they could not intimidate or otherwise mess with them and he won both suits and collected close to a half million dollars. And he wasn't as innocent as many of you are. After this happened the officers were told to back off and do not try to arrest him again. If the feds wanted to and had a real case, they could at a later time. But, the bottom line is these officers are not all powerful and can get away with things like this.

I worked on a federal multi-jurisdictional task force with Justice and the Intelligence community on bringing down both local, state, and federal agents involved in serious criminal activities. I have several serving multiple life sentences plus many years. One FBI agent got 6 life terms plus 140 years. It got to the point the government couldn't keep bringing them down because of the repercussions of other real bad criminals, i.e. terrorists, murderers, etc. getting lawyers and getting out of their sentences and convictions. All I can say is they found another way for the intelligence community to see to it they were taken out of the country on ops and didn't return.

It is a severe game that 99% of you don't want to play with. But, you can still protect yourself by being calm, doing as the request and note everything, including witnesses, and getting a Civil Rights attorney or getting the right oversight law enforcement community to look into your case and press a lawsuit on the bad ones. If you as Americans do not want to let them run rough shot over you, then do something about it. Otherwise it won't stop. It won't be easy and you want to make damn sure you move out of their jurisdiction before filing suit otherwise you will have even more problems. It can get very nasty. And remember to keep you mouth shut and note everything that is said and done. Don't make them remember you. If you don't cause problems they tend to forget details and recall those that do cause problems in their care, custody, and control.

I apologize for bringing this out now, but in my position I can not get involved and do not care to get into it any further. But, if you citizens want to put a stop to the BS going on it is going to require you to take direct action. No one is going to come to the fight for you. It is nothing but a big money business for the most part. I could tell you things I saw and was involved in that would destroy your idea of the way things work and the depth of corruption and more heinous things that occur within the community of law enforcement on every level. Remember one other thing, you do not know who you are talking to in authority in these agencies that are truly good agents or officers. If you talk to the wrong one you will become a target yourself. There are good people out there and especially in the Civil Rights bureau and legal community that hate corruption on a level much greater than you can imagine.

Do something about it, don't sit back and let your life, your families, and your community be abused and railroaded into a penal nightmare. I am only giving you an idea of what you need to do. But, that is as far as I am willing to go. I still have my background erased every 2-4 years and was sworn to keep all the details classified. And the reason I am protected by erasure of records, utilities billed through an agency, etc. is just so the corrupt law enforcement can not find where I am with any ease. My life is still in jeprody from the ones that paid a hard price for their crimes. And some will never be back around. That you can read between the lines on.

Anyway, that is all I have to say on the matter. I have heard too many stories here and no one seems to understand the war they are facing and how to protect them selves and put and end to it. You need groups and not try and take any of these operations yourself. It is the loner that is in the most danger. And trust me, there are dangers you haven't even thought of. If you think war PTSD is bad, it can be much worse working in deep cover classified positions carrying out ops that these people are above the law most of the time.

They can be brought down, but it is not for the weak of heart or the low IQ personnel to even consider playing this level of game on an local, state, national, and international level. It is so intense you will be lucky to sleep once in a while. But again. if you people and the citizens want to stop it, you can. But you are going to have to strap you self in for a wild ride and keep every detail, time, date, and witnesses in a clandestine electronic device to have back up to what you have experienced, dates, times, names, and never get caught with it until you can have enough to get a proper lawyer and put and end to it. Fortunately I had an electronics background and training that they couldn't penetrate. However, there are enough people now that you should be able to assemble your own clandestine team, that will enable you to run them off scared to ever mess with you again.

We live in a ugly & unfair world. You have to play the game at their level or you will lose. They know most people don't have it in them. Or through intimidation you will back off. Good luck to all of you. This game is one of the most difficult you will play and mistakes at this level will be severely dealt with. Don't lose hope and keep driving through the target.

I think everything has already been pretty much covered here but I just wanted to add this which every single person in the US should know.

The two most important statements/phrases you can say to a cop are:

"Am I being detained?" and "Am I free to go?"

Like already said above always do what the officer says or you will get charged with obstruction, but if you ask if you're being detained and they say "No" then ask "Am I free to go?" and if they say "No" then you know you have a lawsuit on your hands right there.

originally posted by: IntroduceALittleIrony
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Came across an article talking about this.

"it's a known meth & heroin distribution bar. Its been under investigation for over a year...with over 5 people under 21 dead from being there & its a BAR you must be 21 to ENTER. They have violated the law serving minors. BUSTED F***TARDS! I hope they all go to prison & shut it down...too many kids DEAD from this place"

another comment from the article reads:

"Seems to me that someone has probably told police illegal stuff is going on. There is a post from december were someone is saying you can get a coke or heroin hookup. Maybe the owners should pay more attention to what their patrons are doin. I find it very hard to believe they were raided for no reason.

Perhaps there is more to this than we outsiders know, unless we have a member who lives there and knows this bar well.

Perhaps you should brush up on the rights of American citizens. It is very easy to claim someplace has drugs. NO WARRANT NO SEARCH. Most bars have people selling drugs in the bathrooms, this is bc they dont want the other bar patrons and staff to see them.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

yet more gestapo crap dressed up as policing. they will suffer consequences, eventually.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

yet more gestapo crap dressed up as policing. they will suffer consequences, eventually.

Maybe they possibly are?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

At least in PA.

actually I dont live in a police state
mine and local communities are very peacefull in comparison to
places where crime runs rampant and requires police force 24/7

a reply to: Lil Drummerboy


Crime runs rampant because they have badges and no recourse.

Not to say certain areas aren't bad but they are small and isolated. Yet the police are harassing everyone everywhere (outside of those rural areas where tptb haven't bothered removing the good ol boy sheriff that loves his town)

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare
Have to disagree.
like I said, My community and the police work together
It is calm and we all get along, because the under educated are not allowed to develop into gangs or hang out to cause trouble. Now in Milwaukee.. different story.however the crime rate is trifold

a reply to: Lil Drummerboy

Like I said, not all areas have been infiltrated by the gestapo. Some still have decent men in charge that care about the rights of American citizens.

I have to wonder about how those "under educated" are treated by the police though. What methods do the police use to not allow them to become gangs and cause trouble. Maybe you have a different experience because you are not one of those "poor" people your police keep a handle on.

originally posted by: kicked
a reply to: Sremmos80

It's a very simple matter of asking if i'm under arrest. If the answer is yes, then i would comply. If the answer is no, then they can't do anything to me.

You should watch the Chris Rock Video on You tube.
How not to get your A$$ Kicked By The Police.
Funny but in Reality things are coming to a HEAD.
Maybe it won't be long before we all get tired of such CRAP.

originally posted by: FraggleRock

originally posted by: roadgravel
Don't they need a warrant to search the people unless arrested?

I thought they did, at least once upon a time. Though who is going to risk challenging them? We all see the countless stories of what happens to people who don't comply with police orders.

fortunately there is not a judge in the USA who wouldn't have to toss any case resulting from this out the door the second you came to court. If there is an immensely incompetent one who doesn't you will have the easiest appeal case the country has ever seen. beleive it or not, this crap isn't legal but it isn't illegal. meaning they can do it, but it won't ever result in charges.

a reply to: dr1234

When I question who would risk challenging them I mean in the moment. In the courts is exactly where I would challenge this conduct. Because when you challenge an officer in the line of duty you're likely to get roughed up and/or killed.

a reply to: FraggleRock

I believe there is a case for telling the officer you don't consent to searches and asking if you are being detained. Those two things are like small computer viruses to these robocops, I imagine "does not compute" is flashing in red lights inside their minds eye when they hear them. Sometimes they just give and let you go, but worse case just don't push it from there, sort of a live to fight this battle when you have some support and aren't in danger of losig your life.