Who Else Believes Virus' are (or were) Created by an Observing Species?

This is something I've wondered since first learning about virus' as a child.The shape of most virus' was actually frightening to me. They appeared purposefully menacing, and why? To terrify those who posses the technology to see them? Was this planned?

Now that I'm older and I see how computer virus' proliferate it's easy to imagine an intelligent (or at least highly creative) species could create these virus'. In fact, I'd bet my life on the fact that if scientists found a way to create new virus' today...humans would use these newly created virus' to infect other life forms (including other humans). Just in the same way a software programmer will release a computer virus into the wild. Priding themselves on the fear and publicity their virus' receives.

Perhaps the origins of the biological virus stem from an ancient species, too intelligent for their own good, competing for the worst (or best, depending on the goal) virus design. We've seen this happen in our lifetime (nuclear weapons anyone?). Once you open that bottle, you cannot close it.

It's obvious the existence of the virus will always be. It is not something that can be eliminated or killed off. Now that I type this out it reminds me of something else. Terrorists, serial killers, evil dictators, etc, etc. Maybe the virus is the universal psychopath and just another reminder of the wickedness of the universe.

a reply to: Battlefresh

Much of the biomass of the Earth consists of bacteria, fungus and virus. They all operate against each other and are more or less in stasis. It's a state of constant world war.

It's hard for me to believe ET's installed a perfectly tuned gear in the machine. IMO, intelligent design of the whole thing makes more sense than ET intervention.

And what of yeast?

I have also wondered this.
Why would an organism kill its host which in turn would kill itself, like cancer?
Seems so against the the natural order or rules for life.
But then look at how we treat our host, the Earth.

I don't really think so, myself. Viruses certainly are weird, but also were an important part in evolution of very early life on Earth, and probably have been around about the same amount of time as regular cells.

a reply to: Battlefresh

Virii don't try to kill their hosts. They are simply seeking a mechanism for replication. It just so happens that this replication ends up killing the host some of the time. Look at mitochondria, they were once in competition with bacteria for access to resources, now they form a symbiotic relationship with multi-cellular organisms. Most life is cooperative. Even fruitbearing plants rely on animals consuming them in order to distribute their seeds around. Flowers rely on bees and flies. Coral relies on fish and vice versa. Even bacteria and fungi keep the world from having tons of corpses and fallen trees just lying around. The deadly virus is the exception to the rule.

Trust me, if someone had the intelligence and resources, they could end humankind with an influenza virus. The fact we are here is a testament to the lack of malevolent forces in the universe.

Viruses can cull those that have no immunity.
The Black Death seen survivors who possessed two copies of a gene mutation pass the mutation on and on and so forth, with the Plague killing off those that didn't. Later this same Delta T receptor gene mutation proved to be an immunity to AIDS but because of the Black Death virus, the mutation was passed on and not lost in successive generations. Virus can save mutations from being lost in the gene pool.

While Viruses bring discomfort and death, the onset of wars, famine, improper sanitation can be the catalysts for nature to rectify itself using these viruses that are ever present. A virus culls, famine is alleviated, wars diminish from lack of bodies, less people are in a given region to cause unsanitary conditions.

Perhaps when there were only bacteria, if the viruses were not present the bacteria colonies would have amassed to such overpopulated sizes that they would have left nothing to survive on and become extinct, extinguishing all life on the planet and we would not be here.

originally posted by: nfflhome
I have also wondered this.
Why would an organism kill its host which in turn would kill itself, like cancer?
Seems so against the the natural order or rules for life.
But then look at how we treat our host, the Earth.

Any "invading" organism only needs the host to survive long enough for the invading species to replicate. Hence why insects lay eggs and the larvae eat the host from the inside. By the time the host is dead the invader has replicated and survived. A virus is no different. This is why you do not find viruses that kill the host stone dead in hours !!! Otherwise the virus would not have long enough to replicate and spread. A really good surviving virus is one with a very long incubation period....live HIV. It can infect its host for several years before killing it which is why it is so good at spreading.

Gaia has a way of flicking off the riff-raff when they become too annoying.

The larger the population of any given species, the easier it is for a plague to spread... once you hit critical mass, a cleansing is inevitable.

a reply to: Battlefresh

A virus has to be spherical or cylinderical as that is the strongest shape. It also needs receptors or binders in order to attach to a cell and inject the DNA or RNA.

Perhaps viruses evolved as a means for single cells species to exchange useful genetic improvements until sexual reproduction came along.

It is fascinating to read about all these different enzymes, proteins, codons and amino acids, and wonder how this all started off. From various graphs, genetic complexity has been evolving at an exponential rate, and from a time before the Earth was created.

The human genome is at least 8% viral DNA ... wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus#Human_endogenous_retrov iruses

Some are beneficial ...

The most well-characterized instance of placental protein expression comes not from an alternatively promoted host gene, but from a complete co-option of a retroviral protein. It is well documented that retroviral fusogenic env proteins, which play a role in the entry of the virion into the host cell, have had an important impact on the development of mammalian placenta. In humans, and other mammals, intact env proteins called syncytins are responsible for the formation and function of syncytiotrophoblasts. These multi-nucleated cells are mainly responsible for maintaining nutrient exchange and protecting the developing fetus from the mother's immune system. It has been suggested that the selection and fixation of these proteins for this function have played a critical role in the evolution of viviparity.

en.wikipedia.org...

So we do owe our existence to viruses.

I guess this is where i shine.

You are thinking about this to negatively.

Viruses in some cases outnumber bacteria because viruses can be put into stasis. Tho the active pair of bacteria and viruses may remain constant. Viruses are typically smaller than bacteria and in turn infect bacteria. It is possible that viruses can evolve and merge with bacteria to form a new life form. Phages and Amoebas.

All things come from DNAr or RNA diretives. The stages of that in information is carried out is labeled such as DNA-Rna comes from either a carry or initiator. Organisms realigning RNA into DNA are carries, Where as Viruses are the initiators.

Proteins which make up the Chromosome, That build the strands of DNA come from D-RNA (DNA transmuted RNA) RNA is carried by viruses which infect the host cells with RNA when converted becomes D-RNA if the cell can bond the codes *Letters and shapes* correctly and a proper match occures where the RNA is injected into the germline. Then a positive symbiosis can occure where there is no infection but positive mutation if benificial to the host. This is rare and in the scientific community is called a niche. Sometimes when sending and reciving RNA viruses will make themselves obsolete.

Tho several strains may exist outside the body in the world, The sending and reciving of codes can just as easily corrupt a virus as it does the host cell if any of the codes are disruptive to their core functions.

Usually, the body has mechanisms that tampers with the viruses RNA. Also the bodies immune system can adapt to alter a harmful pathogen such as viruses or bacteria, upon a positive mutation. The information from the cell will be carried over to other cells the immune system attacks the pathogens. The cells will begin corrupting the virus at the same time hunting it down with phages. Sometimes these last resort mechanisms are have their quota filled. And defending against one invader allows another to enter. Since cells can only retain so much information before exceeding their designed cellular wall.

Therefore we often experience infection first before quickly adapting to it. Viruses can also be conquered, When the body tampers with the codes of the virus and turns it into a Phage.

You may have noticed that throuout this discussion, That viruses change quite frequently and more importantly change us and our bodies ecosystem. Once they are in your body as mentioned they never leave.

So the body must either corrupt them to the point of nullification or adopt them into the Defence/Building squads.
Ancient viruses can repair damaged cells where corruption occures by implanting corrected RNA. Viruses can be used to cure diseases, We call this Genetic manipulation. And when we do this to an organism, it we call the organism a genetically modified organism or (GMO).

This might scare some people be you can breath easy. Modifying is only the tip of the iceburge. As the OP mentioned. The person wants to know if viruses can be manufactured. Is it possible? It most certainly is.

You can build bacteria and viruses from the ground up. Currently using codes that already exist in nature. Presently scientists only understand 4 basic letters of DNA coding. ATCG i believe are the letters. The problem with belief about just Genetics being only these letters is false.

These letters are characterized by their shape, As Proteins are like a puzzlebox containing all these shapes that make up the one protein. laying these ontop of each other. It is possible to add different shapes and build different *Programs* from these compounds. This might seem complicated but like IS a woven program. Tho viruses in computers are Errors, sometimes generated on purpose by humans with programs that corrupt important system functions.

The thing is without viruses non of us would exist. That RNA that builds up the codes for protein sequences in the chromosom is what makes us, us. Without it we are only roughly 1% human. Viruses make up about 9% of our genetic material. The rest is all substances (Water, basic elements carbon hydrogen nitrogen oxygen) that react to these mechanisms as well as the ecosystem that is our body. Our body rearanges these molecules into what we call Amino acids. It is these rearangments into particular patterns that create bio-organic material. So it is an obvious conclusion that we will use this technology to build *nano-bots* Bio materials that can replicate pretty much any inorganic substance and then some. Because the rearanging of atoms into specific molecules has a wealth of posibilities outside of bio-organic engineering such as inorganic manufacturing and resource gathering is particularly limited because the mechanisms to rearange atoms is extremely difficult without micro-constructors AKA micro-organisms and nano-organisms.

There is something like 100x more bacteria in your gut compared to every cell in your body. These bacteria break down *food* by eating and pooping them out. The excrement is called Enzymes and these are easily absorbed through the cellular walls where it reaches cells and the blood stream.

Bacteria feed our body. They also demand what we are craving to eat. So if you are craving crap food, then you are cultivating harmful bacteria in the gut that thrive off of what ever you are feeding it. Bacteria can break down mostly everything edible but require specific nutrients to survive. So they will trigger chemical responses in a type of bacterial nervous system linking the ceribral cortex that triggers basic instincts and otherwise. Sometimes they may excrete poison, Which causes your blood stream to become inflamed, Where upon blood vessles constrict to reduce the flow of the toxins.

Bacteria can do this when they are not being fed and are seeking *revenge*. But the ultimate goal of bacteria and viruses is to seek a symbiotic relationship with the host. These pathogens WANT to be useful, As without a use they lose purpose.
And all life seek purpose through death and life, And life would rather cause chaos than be eliminated without a purpose.

Here's some links you should check out.

Viruses Vs. Bacteria – Debate Rebuttals

Bacterial phage defense mechanisms with applications

Gut Bacteria Build Weapons from Viruses

a reply to: Battlefresh

I think that your hypothesis is correct.

I personally believe that viruses are evidence that there was once a technologically advanced race living on, or interacting with, the planet Earth. The reason, is because of the characteristics of viruses, themselves.

Bacteria, like all living things, have to eat to survive. They have to take some component from their environment, and they have to break it down into energy that can be used to power themselves. Whatever they consume, goes through a chemical change and is excreted. In many cases, bacteria play a symbiotic role in their environment because of this.

Viruses do not eat anything. They consume nothing, and produce nothing beneficial to their environment. This is very machine-like behavior.

Like all living things, bacteria reproduce. Bacterial cells contain chromosomes, those chromosomes contain DNA. The DNA is read by a protein that creates a copy of the DNA strand called RNA. That RNA, will eventually become a new cell, when that cell undergoes the process of binary fission.

Viruses do not reproduce. A virus does not contain chromosomes, a virus has no DNA. Instead, a virus contains a single strand of RNA that it injects into a cell. That strand of RNA becomes a new copy of the virus, which also contains RNA, which is then injected. This process is continued until the cell cannot contain the viral bodies and is destroyed. Then all of the new viruses move on to new cells to kill, and the process is repeated. This is not reproduction, this is a machine making a copy of itself with the sole purpose of destroying life .

This is weaponized behavior at a cellular level.

Bacteria react to antibiotics, viruses do not.

If viruses are truly a technology, they are a genius invention. They can evolve. The inventor would only have to create one class of viruses, release them, and simply allowed them to evolve.

Just Google Image search pics of the cold Virus and tell me with a straight face that it's not a machine.

originally posted by: signalfire
Gaia has a way of flicking off the riff-raff when they become too annoying.

The larger the population of any given species, the easier it is for a plague to spread... once you hit critical mass, a cleansing is inevitable.

Right on the money.

I hate to take the supposed Illuminati "reduce the world's population" line, but it's high time that we faced a simple and incontrovertible fact: There are too many human animals on the planet.

We are so in love with ourselves that we can't keep from rutting for a day. The planet grows weary of the monkey's with their egos and crazy toys. Me thinks certain epidemics aren't the planet's way of attempting to cull a very dangerous and prodigous virus. One that wears shoes

It's been proven that natural mutation themselves will allow bacteria to exploit new food sources. One experiment is to take some basic yeast strains, and let them reproduce in their favorite food. Then, switch their food over to something different, taking samples of the population every few hours. While they may just be a state of stasis during this time, eventually one lucky individual will find the perfect combination of genes to adapt to the new food source, and those descendants rapidly reproduce.

Analysis of the mutations will show that all genes changed at random, reshuffled, until the perfect match was found.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Virus and bacteria are generated by very random realignment of atoms.

As mentioned all we are is made of atoms and molecules, I made the distiction that inorganic mass and organic mass is arranged differently.

What does this all mean? It means that everything is alive, Everything can be reassembled into something living.

Even something as seemingly non existance and black matter itself. As Black matter is made of galactically crushed mass.

I think scientists have completely overlooked this fact. Some claime apotosis but for that to occure is very complicated.

I imagine the right conditions/ element composition would create life just about anywhere where chemical creations CAN occure. Viruses carry information just like we carry information. The electrons travelling through your decktop/laptop/mobile divice rely on these electrons carrying very specific imputs.

Right now computers are coded in 1s and 0s and these electrons generate these charges which the processors read. Similar to how a brain works. All the mass that is We is supercharged by predesigned patterns either forming in nature or artificial.
The universe is infinite in age and in creation. So the likelyhood of artificial life reaching Earth has a possibility near infinity. As the Earth will only exist within a relatively short span of time in the great scheme of things.
But with the high possibility of mass gaining advanced consiousness such as we humans it is almost a certainty that such forms of mass and energy arrangments have reached us.

As mentioned, All of this is alive, as energy is alive and mass is just a container of energy which leads to action.
Without a structure holding infinite reactions, Then there could be no elaborate structures at all. Such as galaxies.

So you see, even from the tiniest of *althgorisms* comes life, and from these same delicate althgorithms come's everything else that can hold structure. Without information and proper transfer and unification. There would be only chaos.
It is only likely that since planets and stars exist/ orbits. That more complex and smaller scale arangments would be made.
Such as the micro and macrososms that is our body.

This is only a path in the rabbit hole. When we touch on purpose we begin to see a deeper level in why life exists.
If life is made of energy and energy is all that is mass. Then life is Energy and masses last ditch effort in survival.
Thus mass must be alive. In order for materials/memories(information)/all that encompasses a planets purpose is saved when life reaches space stage. When something like humans emerge, We carry all these pathogens, all these species metals materials memories with us into space evading certain death.
The carnage of creation and destruction as ultimately spawned life, It is possible to generate life from pretty much any toxic substance we can think of in existance. When you see how symbolic it is. That prearangments of atoms into specific molecules generates life is AMAZING. When we die in this life is of no coniquence unless all of us die. And even then, some remains may carry our linages on.

The universe was not designed to be a happy or sad place, But was designed to have endless possibility within a rigid set of boundaries. Like playing with lego peices that animate when put into the proper order. Now this can get into the topic of god because of the mind boggling playset we've been given. It's not relivant to attach the consiousness of the entire universes purpose to solely Earth. So to think the universe is governing us toward some epic infinity prophecy is simply wishful thinking.

But the possiblity of us being created by something so uninmaginable. So unfathomable. That our sole existance is a threat to nearby star systems. What if we were created by *archetechs?* Supreme Archetechs. Then the religions we created would be justified in their core beliefs aside from the taboo dogma.
A species able to manipulate these lego block motors to do just about anything. To create living and non living alike, To comission and decommision living and non living materials.

It seems that the way we have been progressing and carrying on with out day to day rutines of carving the Earth and subjecting it to alchemy is hinting towards these origins. So are humans created? If yes, then its most certain that were pillaged by extrnal sources that saw our species as a threat. Given that we unleashed the atomic bomb less than 100 years after nichola tesla unleashed the motor on the world that it would be likely that we are infact Archetechs. That is our species. We call our God Master creator. Master Archetech. We know the universe cannot grovel to one planet so our existance must be something greater than our current comprehension of understanding. Tied to the soul. Since mass can become animate and does become animate. It is very likely we can transfer our consiousness to other forms of mass.
Since our consiousness is information and information can be stored and transfered. How far down the rabbit hole do you wish to go?

For the sheer awesomeness of these statements and what they mean. It would be ignorant for us to assume that pathogens (viruses, bacteria, phages) are here for our sole destruction. But serve vital roles in our existance and thus the existance of the Universe.

a reply to: TheBlackTiger



This is similar to my thinking on the topic. I don't pretend to fully understand it all but...

From my own observations... both of my kids typically experience a pretty significant and easily observable developmental or physical growth spurt following illness - it's absolutely uncanny.

I can't begin to extrapolate this as it pertains to vaccines and the ever-increasing incidence of Autism but it does make me wonder.

Maybe viruses and bacteria serve as a biological code to upgrade humanity? Just spit-balling, mind you...

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Persuasive, except that you are wrong to say that viruses do not reproduce. You described their reproductive process yourself.

Instead, a virus contains a single strand of RNA that it injects into a cell. That strand of RNA becomes a new copy of the virus, which also contains RNA, which is then injected. This process is continued until the cell cannot contain the viral bodies and is destroyed. Then all of the new viruses move on to new cells to kill, and the process is repeated.

It would have been more correct to say 'that strand of RNA hijacks the cell ribosome to make copies of itself, which are then injected' (into other cells). Also, you forgot that in most viruses the RNA strand is protected by a protein coat, and that many viruses contain DNA instead of RNA.

There is no need to hypothesize malice aforethought. Except for those that live by photosynthesis and form the foundation of the food chain, all living things exist by consuming other living things. Even fruiting plants, which have evolved parts of themselves that are actually meant to be eaten, have not saved themselves from this fate — as anyone who has dealt with a pest outbreak in an orchard knows.