What is Westminsters Plan B

a reply to: ScepticScot

Scotland will keep the oil as it is in Scottish waters. This is established international law ( as well as being blindingly obvious).

Again I am amazed, amazed at how black and white you think international law is.

It is preposterous to believe that London is going to let Edinburgh keep all that oil when it has been treated as a asset of the whole of the UK since its discovery. It is UK funding that has created its infrastructure, to think that Scotland can just keep most of that with out giving some of it up is unrealistic. Besides nobody knows for sure how much oil we have left or what its value might be in 5 years time. With that kind of uncertainty the basis for a economy and no clear currency you simply cannot argue that Scotland is going to be the "rich man of Europe"

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: ScepticScot

Scotland will keep the oil as it is in Scottish waters. This is established international law ( as well as being blindingly obvious).

It is UK funding that has created its infrastructure, to think that Scotland can just keep most of that with out giving some of it up is unrealistic.

Erm.........nope...............wrong.................
Sorry
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

What will they do - invade Scotland? England is weak and knows it. They wouldn't last a month if they pissed the world off.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Scotland will keep the oil as it is in Scottish waters. This is established international law ( as well as being blindingly obvious).
Assets that are up for negotiation are non geographical. For every asset that rUk wants to keep ie trident then there is an offset to any debt Scotland takes.
The only complication is valuing non tangible assets.
Off course Scotland is economically viable. There are many smaller countries with less natural resource or infrastructure doing just fine.

The lawyers are going to be over all this like a rash. Scotland will not get to keep all the oil, London will see to that. The base at Faslane will close, I doubt that London will buy any more naval vessels from Scottish yards, the debt issue will be a huge one... I could go on, but the list is vast and Salmond has been vastly optimistic.

Thanks, "London will see to that".....Another reason for anyone in their right mind to vote yes.
As for Faslane, there is no reason why Faslane cant stay open as a Sub Repair facility, that's what it does now, or as a working yard connected to the Oil and gas industry...It's the Weapons that we want rid of.

London doesn't BUY any vessels from Scottish yards, they sub contract the work out. I dont see why they wont give any future work to Scotland as we are good at what we do and have the facilities to handle the work... or have we become a untrustworthy bunch over night.
Anyway, under the UK governments watch the Yards on the Clyde have been decimated, so any promises from Westminster that the future of Shipbuilding on the Clyde is only safe after a No vote is pretty much....well, without being rude is.... Utter Garbage.

But the weapons are on the subs. Banning the weapons from Scotland means banning the submarines, so what's the point of the base at Faslane? As for the ships, the MoD will just reopen the building yards at Portsmouth. Why would they contact work out to a foreign country that isn't a part of NATO? I agree about the promises from Westminster about the future of shipbuilding on the Clyde though.
The border is something else though. How will an independent Scotland track who comes in and who goes out? Come to that, if Scotland has its own currency and its own financial policies then it'll have different rates for all kinds of things. In which case customs houses WILL be needed. And then there's the little matter of the debt.
I'm sorry, but I still see nothing but huge legal problems with the whole idea.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

What will they do - invade Scotland? England is weak and knows it. They wouldn't last a month if they pissed the world off.

Considering the tonnage of nukes Englnd has, I think the world will keep its distance.

a reply to: pikestaff

Nukes are only good if you want to world to end. Other people have them, too.

England will be the one keeping it's distance, I think.

Edit: Nuclear weapons don't make a country strong, not in any way.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Erm.........nope...............wrong.................
Sorry
Rainbows
Jane

Well it certainly wasn't Scotland now was it?

Sure if Scotland had been independent during the late '60/'70's then they would definitely have a claim to all that oil with in their territorial waters but that Oil was discovered in what was and still is the territorial waters of the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

You cannot simply just break of a chunk of the UK and say "oh we are taking your oil with us as well". There will be huge negotiations over that, it may very well end up going to the courts to eventually make a decision over who legally owns what shear of that oil.

Again I am really shocked that people are so nieve as to actually believe that the rUK would actually just let Scotland keep all of that oil.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol
Didn't think you did to be honest, you gloated to me in one other thread about the lovely black gold and now you start a thread about the loss of revenue to Northern Ireland, Wales, and England. Does it make you happy with claims that the country I live in could suffer.
You go on about Westminster, but if what you say turns out to have dramatic consequences then it's normal blokes like me who suffer, not the twats in government.
Why take the piss out of the normal folk? ...and if you are voting for independence in full knowledge of it then I think this thread really is just taking the piss out of normal folk in N.I, Wales, and England...and gloating about the oil.
Nice.

Oh, you'll get your chance to gloat on the 19th, trust me. The Media here and the Biased Broadcasting Corporation have made sure of that. But we wont forget every single one of them, they will suffer financially for their treachery.

originally posted by: pikestaff

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

What will they do - invade Scotland? England is weak and knows it. They wouldn't last a month if they pissed the world off.

Considering the tonnage of nukes Englnd has, I think the world will keep its distance.

I highly doubt that Call-Me-Dave would threaten to use nukes in a war over Berwick-On-Tweed.
That's a point. Is that town still a matter of contention?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Oh, you'll get your chance to gloat on the 19th, trust me. The Media here and the Biased Broadcasting Corporation have made sure of that. But we wont forget every single one of them, they will suffer financially for their treachery.

Treachery? That's a bit strong isn't it?

a reply to: Soloprotocol

But we wont forget every single one of them, they will suffer financially for their treachery.

So because they disagree with you, they are traitors.

hmmmmm.......

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
The funding infrastructure was largely private what central government provided was paid off within the first couple of years.
Of course geographical assets go with the country. Do you think Scotland has a claim on land values of central London or agriculture from wales?
And who said "rich man of Europe" I'll settle for not being most unequal in Europe.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: angelchemuel

Erm.........nope...............wrong.................
Sorry
Rainbows
Jane

Well it certainly wasn't Scotland now was it?

Didn't say it was did I
Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Oh, you'll get your chance to gloat on the 19th, trust me. The Media here and the Biased Broadcasting Corporation have made sure of that. But we wont forget every single one of them, they will suffer financially for their treachery.

Treachery? That's a bit strong isn't it?

I am being polite. I have stronger words for them.

a reply to: gortex

I'd rather see a country independent and in tatters, than shackled by the English.

How arrogant of them to still think their little country so relevant.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
On the subject of military ship building I think it is unlikely that many new orders would come from the rUK.
On the other hand hopefully(from a Scottish point of view) the mod will want to keep all its existing ships, so Scotland will get a further deduction from debt which we can then use to build costal protection ships we actually need also securing ship building jobs. Win/win for Scotland.

Well that's pretty clear
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel
Owned...lol

Why is it that anyone who expresses anything like a 'No' opinion is automatically castigated a 'traitor'?
Why is it that anytime anyone mentions any potential negative aspect to independence they are immediately demonised for 'scaremongering'.

If Scotland does vote 'Yes' then there will undoubtedly be some difficult times ahead, it will not be all peaches and cream in some sort of idyllic land of harmony and milk and honey.

Regardless of the outcome of the vote there is going to be some bitter recriminations in Scotland after the referendum - and that is very sad.
One thing is certain; Scotland will never be the same again.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Why is it that anyone who expresses anything like a 'No' opinion is automatically castigated a 'traitor'?
Why is it that anytime anyone mentions any potential negative aspect to independence they are immediately demonised for 'scaremongering'.

If Scotland does vote 'Yes' then there will undoubtedly be some difficult times ahead, it will not be all peaches and cream in some sort of idyllic land of harmony and milk and honey.

Regardless of the outcome of the vote there is going to be some bitter recriminations in Scotland after the referendum - and that is very sad.
One thing is certain; Scotland will never be the same again.

Wooooooooo i'm Scared. we better awe vote naw then.
Who said it will be all milk and Honey, Like any country in the world Scotland will have it's good times and bad, but with a estimated, as far as we know there is £1 TRILLION worth of Oil and Gas still to be extracted....I'm sure that fall back money will put a plaster on any skint knees we might suffer along the way.

And as for Bitter recriminations...We have seen divides before and dealt with them like decent human beings.
Regardless of what people south of the border think. Regardless of how Eastenders, River city, Corrie etc portrays us on a regular basis, we are not a bunch of drunken, wife beating, drug dealing bigoted savages.

For every arsehole there is 10000 decent law abiding citizens....Same as any town, Village, City in the rest of the UK.