goths

Originally posted by Banshee

Originally posted by Jonna
Out of bordom, I am creating a list of the subdivision of goths. Add them if you got them.

*ahem*

RIVETHEADS.
*puts on stompy boots*

You really consider goths and rivetheads to be the same thing? Sure there are crossovers, but most rivetheads I know would find it a complete insult to be called goth.

Originally posted by astrocreep

Originally posted by Jonna

Funny thing is that most of the goths I knew don't even know the origins of this.

My point exactly. Maybe after reading this thread, throwing a temper tantrum, having a Tab, and several bouts of eye-rolling, they'll become interested to learn more.

I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about? The gothic subculture (if you even want to call them that) really are not generaly interested in history. The origins have morphed over time and become irrecognisable from the original as most things tend to do. Goths today do not do things because of goths then. Granted that we all know how cool history is, but most people just don't care about it. They care about the here and now.

Eye-rolling? Tantrums? Drinking Tab? I honestly don't know what to say. I can see that you are a mod ...and you can see that I obviously do not care who you think you are. Are or were you goth? Do you really have any first hand information on the subject or did some little gothic school girl reject you and you are bitter about it towards all goths?

Tab!?! Man really, Tab?

Someone call Coca Cola back as they want their side products protected from flase acusations.

Take it easy. I was only joking. Okay, I take back what I said about the Tab.


BTW, I keep ordering one with the appropriate key on my keyboard and haven't gotten it yet! What gives?

And.. my status doesn't mean I can't have an opinion or joke around in BTS.

I am not the only one on here who think its ironic that "today's goths" choose the lifestyle to be different and end up conforming more so than they would if they hadn't.

As for the goth thing, sorry to say that I have been out of school for a while before the goth thing came about. Well, what you all perceive as goth. I studied the true goths in world civ but ya know?



[edit on 8-12-2004 by astrocreep]

Perhaps I was being a bit abrasive as I was under the impression that you were proclaiming all goths to be ignorant or stupid. If such is not the case then I do apologize. It really has little to do with the history of the word 'goth' for people as it holds few resemblances to the music/fashion scene. I do agree with you that it is best to know the real origins of things, but not all people see that as important or relevent to the definition of the word today.

You just really pushed my button with that Tab slander. And as we all know, I am a bit cranky to start off with.

As per the mod personal opinion thing, I was not insinuating that mods don't have opinions but rather that mods are here to keep the peace and I thought you were making broad negative generalzations on a group of people. Again, my bad if I was incorrect. I just speak my mind regardless of the unspoken hierarchy.

Now, back to your scheduled programing...

Not a problem. Really, I think the look is kinda cool. Like Kate Bakesale or whatever her name is in Underworld. That was a good flick.

Actually, the only one I know is the daughter of one of my wife's friends who has a really hard time with her and I can't generalize the whole lot of them on the basis of one melodramatic teenager now can I?

If you want, you can make light of me because I'm what you call a hillbilly, I guess. Even though my true origins are from German Bavaria and were most likely descendants from Gothic peoples ...or the Franks..which sounds much less cool so knowing my luck, its likely them. No, I don't wear bib overals or chew tobacco but I do live quite rural and know a great deal about nature and growing (legal) stuff. But, my profession is in Technology so I can't really dress like my stereotype at work. ..Which brings me to a question.

Can one be a goth and dress to the norm or does being goth directly come from the look? Are there times, one is goth and others when one isn't depending on the dress and make-up. Or once you say your goth, your goth until you choose not to be regardless of the dress and make-up?

Originally posted by astrocreep
Can one be a goth and dress to the norm or does being goth directly come from the look? Are there times, one is goth and others when one isn't depending on the dress and make-up. Or once you say your goth, your goth until you choose not to be regardless of the dress and make-up?

Hum! When I was goth I don't recall ever refering to myself as goth. I mean I was in to gothic stuff, but I never really called myself goth until I wasn't any longer. It is a label I suppose like so many other things. I think it is only the non-goths that call goths, goths.

So is it the look or that additude? Errr...ummm...that is a tough one as the two always went hand in hand with the goths I knew. When people hang out in groups or clicks (Damit! I can't figure out how to spell it correctly.), they begin to assimulate one anothers traits. This generally creates the stereotype of any clich and the stereotype always remembered it the one that is the most extreme of the groups within the clich. The one that you hear about the most of the time via the media. Goths are all satanic freeks, jocks are all idiotic barbarians, prepies are all popular and arrogent, etc. Perhaps it is because these 'titles' were generated by highschool teenagers in all their angst and glory, but they all seem quite negative more often then not.

Anyway, I think that Goth is more of a classification by someone else then what the actual goth considers themselves to be. Sure some people do refer to themselves as the 'brand name', but I think that is because they are buying into the label for the comfort of belonging to a group.

Goth nowadays is all rehashed #, it's been done over and over again....

For those who want to rebel against the status quo and be different, I say your not different, it's been done, there is nothing orignal about it.

One question I often wondered was if they showered much....

they always looked so dirty.......

Now if you want to talk about dirties, rememeber the skids?!!

We used to throw snow balls at em in the winter time, give em alittle water to clean themselves up... uh, some of em smelled too! pee yew!

Originally posted by astrocreep
Can one be a goth and dress to the norm or does being goth directly come from the look? Are there times, one is goth and others when one isn't depending on the dress and make-up. Or once you say your goth, your goth until you choose not to be regardless of the dress and make-up?

You know, I don't think I answered your question in the least. :bnghd: That's what happens when I keep getting interupted with work at my job. Let me try this again.

Back in high school/college, I dressed goth 24/7 as did most of the people I hung out with. Even when we didn't have Robert Smith hair and black leather pants on, you could still spot us out in a crowd. As time went on we stopped dressing up all the time. Whether is was the repeditive bordom of it or just shear laziness I can not recall. We were still goth but only in that we listened to the music and did all the typical gothic things. So do all goths look goth? No, but that is because of the stereotypical image of what a goth looks like. Goths can always tell another goth even if they are not dressed gothic. It is like gaydar, only darker and a bit less homosexual.

My list of the top 15 goth albums that define the genre.-an uber-goth from NYC

1. Bauhaus - In the Flat Field
You have to be either incredibly naive or in willful denial to say they had no influence on the scene. Really. Showcases the transition from artsy punk to goth before it had a name.

2. Joy Division - Closer
Heavy influence on the sounds of the later '80s gothic rock bands. Helped lay the foundational sound of deep bass and drums with light ethereal guitars.

3. Siouxsie and the Banshees - Juju
Their first album was a powerful expression of punk rock during the '70s, their second album showed they couldn't keep the punk thing going forever, and their third album saw them experimenting much more in the post-punk arena. Here, their fourth album showcases one of the strongest results of such experimentation, with light ethereal guitars, strong tribal drumming, and heavy bass. Night Shift should be considered a gothic anthem.

4. Specimen - Batastrophe EP
Maybe the album itself isn't as widely influential as to warrant spot #4 here. But consider first that this is Specimen. If it wasn't for these guys, there probably wouldn't have been a Batcave, and without the Batcave, most of you probably wouldn't be here today.

5. The Sisters of Mercy - First and Last and Always
Andrew Eldritch almost single-handedly set forth every stereotype in the book for the next generation of goths, and then vehemently denied the label. Formed the signature drum-machine and deep voice sound that would be copied by many future bands.

6. Christian Death - Only Theatre of Pain
Yep, here's the L.A. deathrock scene, with one of the most influential bands of the scene. While Rozz hadn't yet fully matured as a singer here, it still showcases some of their signature songs.

7. Alien Sex Fiend - Who's Been Sleeping in my Brain?
Arguably the band more associated with the Batcave than anyone else. Helped give the scene a quirky sense of humour among all the dark imagery.

8. And Also the Trees - Virus Meadow
Yes, they're being listed before the Cure. This is because they pretty much were the main influence on Robert Smith et. al. to begin foraying into the realm of depressing and dark music. This one showcases some moody songs heavy on the reverb with deadpan vocals. Slow Pulse Boy is a definite fan-favourite song.

9. The Cure - Pornography
This has to be one of the darkest albums ever conceived. 8 songs of pure angst and depression that will knock you in the head and leave you bleeding from the wrists. In fact, Robert Smith decided to never do anything like this ever again after the album was finished. This (along with Faith) was the *real* reason the Cure was considered a goth band, not Mr. Smith's weird signature makeup and back-combed hair.

10. Clan of Xymox - Medusa
Another 4AD band from the '80s. This is an adventure through more of an existential darkness than an angsty one, and it probably exerted more influence on the electronic side of gothic music. Definitely their best offering before the line-up began changing along with their style.

11. Virgin Prunes - If I Die, I Die...
One of the weirdest bands ever. This has some of their best songs ever, including Pagan Lovesong and Baby Turns Blue.

12. Kommunity FK - The Vision and the Voice
Another influential L.A. deathrock band. This album really shows some of the parallels between the L.A. and British scenes regarding the evolution of punk to goth, and it has some of their better songs, too.

13. Fields of the Nephilim - Dawnrazor
Picking up where the Sisters left off.
Actually, that's not giving them enough credit. They really popularised the bleak western imagery (even though Theatre of Hate, Southern Death Cult, and Gun Club have all used it before), and the slight country twang showed how amorphous and liberal the scene's music had become by the late '80s. Well, after the amalgam of post-punk, deathrock, industrial, darkwave, and other such genres, can you really give a concise definition of the "gothic sound" anymore?

14. Dead Can Dance - Dead Can Dance
Another 4AD band. This was back when they used some spooky guitars and some interesting percussion. This really sounds nothing like their other albums, as far as I know. Frontier is a powerful piece.

15. Switchbalde Symphony - Serpintine Gallery
The "Bladies" set forth a lush and dark sound, that few before or since have mastered.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Nine Inch Nails]

Originally posted by Nine Inch Nails
11. Virgin Prunes - If I Die, I Die...
One of the weirdest bands ever. This has some of their best songs ever, including Pagan Lovesong and Baby Turns Blue.

I would have to say that the strangest goth-ish band ever was The Birthday Party. What the hell was that about!?! Every once in a while I pop it into the tape deck and within seconds my girl friend says that it is the soundtrack for someone losing their mind.

For those of you that are unaware of The Birthday Party, you might recognize the singer: Nick Cave.

As for the band to be doubted Best at being worst, I would have to say 45 Grave. They are another band one begins twitching while listening too.


For those of you unfamiliar with goth, it did not start off as all dark and depressing. Actually it was really experimental in the beginning but then the dreary goth 'image' started up and it was less punk-ish/avangard and more moopy. Personally I always liked the former better.

Originally posted by Nine Inch Nails
My list of the top 15 goth albums that define the genre

FANTASTIC LIST!
i wudnt put some of those way up there, but i agree with the vast majority of it.

GOOD JOB!

HI guys, I am a goth and have been so for a while now, and in most posts the people your describing are not goths, we do not think it is cool to be goth, it is how we express ourselves and it makes us happy
www.youtube.com...
enjoy these videos as I am too tired to go into detail now