What form of government would Jesus go for?.

originally posted by: Klassified
The christian god is a dictator. As will his son Jesus be upon his "return". The bible is quite clear about that.

Then you have not read the Bible. The Christian god gives rules, yes, rules that are for the most part, how to live a healthy and happy life. (not hedonistic happy, which leads to disease, addictions, etc., but content happy)

Then he leaves people alone pretty much - let's them have free will - do as they want to

God says there are consequences and let's the natural consequences of not following the "rules" happen, disease, addiction, hatred, etc.
A Dictator would step in and stop the natural consequences from happening by micromanaging people's lives.

God says there are also logical consequences and allows the other people to determine those - punishment for murder, etc. - A Dictator would step in and say, here is the consequence, this is what you should do when - (99% of all the punishments are in the extra biblical texts, mans ideas, not gods)

So no God is not a Dictator.


If you haven't done so, I suggest you read a Bible cover to cover. I really suggest one with red letters, because those are the words of Jesus. Also, keep in mind that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament.

So many of the "punishments" if not most are swept away and declared invalid by the New Testament
(which is what makes Christian's different from the Jews who only follow the Old Testament).
So if one says, the Old Testament says ....... but does not check to see if the New Testament says the opposite
(remember the New Testament overrules the Old Testament for Christians every time)
then you can not just quote the Old Testament.

However, the New Testament never overruled God's warning about Kings and that the people should not have Kings (Dictators).
The Bible is quite clear on that one, that Kings (Dictators) will be and are nearly always a bad form of government.

a reply to: grandmakdw
I have read it cover to cover, and studied it verse for verse, more times than I can count. The biblical god is a tyrannical, blodthirsty, dictator. And biblically, his son will rule as a dictator over all humans when he "returns".

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: grandmakdw
I have read it cover to cover, and studied it verse for verse, more times than I can count. The biblical god is a tyrannical, blodthirsty, dictator. And biblically, his son will rule as a dictator over all humans when he "returns".

I have read it too and see it from an entirely different viewpoint.

I disagree and am sorry you are so deeply wounded by someone who claimed to be a Christian. That is the only reason I can see for your blind rage.

God is not a dictator, or humans would not be free to disobey and do whatever they want regardless of the "rules" set by God. He allows them free will, free range and does not limit their behavior in any way. A Dictator would put strict, harsh and immediate limits on behavior. God says, here are the rules, you know them and can think for yourself, if you choose to disobey, that is your choice and I will not interfere with your choice.

I think Jesus would go for a meritocracy where all would have something to do according to their skills and effort using the golden rule in a symbiotic way to create a harmonic society.

I do not think he would allow the power pyramid so that leaves both the western form of capitalism (Trickle up debt economy for bankers and politicians) and soviet form of communism (state capitalism for the politicians).

You can build a society where all people have work and a minimal comfort built into it that have to be created before luxury is implemented for those who perform exceptionally. Taking care of your soul brothers and soul sisters needs when your minimal needs are satisfied.

But you cannot have a minimal comfort built in if you allow greedy people with no empathy to control the system since they will want the minimal comfort to be lower than the actual need so that they can get more luxuries to play with.

a reply to: grandmakdw
I am neither wounded, nor do I have any rage toward a fictional character. I just stopped reading and studying the bible with rose colored glasses after almost 30 years as a xtian, and saw the biblical god, and his son for what they really are.

The bible is very plain. God is an owner/dictator. He created us, and we are his property. The bible is also very plain about what happens in the end, whatever we may get by with right now. In the end, they will stand before god and be judged. God himself, is judge, jury, and executioner. Those who rejected christ go into everlasting punishment.

There is no appeal. No redress of grievances. No discussion or debate. And Jesus made the same statements multiple times. The Kingdom of god is a dictatorship.

My point here is not to dissuade you from being a xtian, or believing in Jesus. It is rather to be realistic about what the bible says. Christs thousand year reign will certainly not be a picnic. He, as well as those he appoints, will rule with a "rod of iron", according to revelations, depending on whether you are a fundamentalist, or an eclectic xtian. Either way, that's just a few examples.

IDK. What are other politicians like from that region from whence Jesus came? Probably similar to that, I would imagine. Maybe Jesus would be a member of the Israeli regime? Maybe ISIS? After all, religion is a very violent and bloody game.(zips up flame suit)

Of course, this is assuming that you believe any of it.

good question, here's a few hints

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. Isaiah 9

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Ephesians 1

And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation19

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Psalm2

Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men. Psalm33

I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11

and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
Acts 17

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever 1Timothy1

He will judge between many peoples and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
Micah 4

And all that believed were together, and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Acts2

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 4

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. Revelation21

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Matthew 18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Monarchy.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Someone called me a commie (nope Iam a socialist) on ATS today and it got me thinking what would Jesus be?. Would he be a capitalist? a socialist? or another form of politics?.
Now I tend to lean towards Jesus was a socialist because of of these passges.

www.biblegateway.com...

www.biblegateway.com...

Now there are many examples but what do you all think?.

(Oh and this is just for fun and debate folks).

This should be a great thread..... here is my S&F

My opinion is a monarchy system......a king that rules according to his laws. He personally cannot be defeated by anything. He has an impressive army if needed and is ruler over all.

Mankind has no right to rule over other people...... almost said men.

How have we done so far? Not that good.

No, God warned people about a monarchy specifically in the Old Testament, he said it was a really bad idea that people would come to regret. God was very very much against any government except for honest and intelligent judges and low level municipals.

If you believe Jesus is God, then one would have to believe that Jesus saw government, any government, any type of government as inherently able to become evil (which they all have).

Jesus only approved government would be one based on the 10 commandments and love your neighbor as yourself. No other form at all, Judges would simply use the 10 commandments with no addendums as the basis for law and punishment. If everyone was honest and cared for each other, there would be no need for regulations or government or military. So anarchy is not what I mean.

Hi,

I understand your point however isn't Jesus Christ "Kings of Kings" ?

◄ Revelation 19:16 ► On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords.

The perfect Christian society would be one that would look a lot like what people think a real-world socialist Utopia would be with one HUGE difference - there would be no government force involved. People would follow the principles of love one another and the Golden Rule to share as needed. So, unlike a socialist society, there would be personal property and respect for property rights which is inherently capitalist.

There is nothing wrong with working hard and taking pride in prospering because of that hard work. In fact, Jesus taught parables based on prospering through one's hard work. The problem comes when we replace our love for others with a greed for stuff.

Similarly, we labor today under the misplaced belief that we should support all whether they work or not. Now, we should support those who cannot work, but we are under no special obligation to support those who will not work, but a socialist society does not separate the two groups.

This is why Jesus would not be either a socialist or a capitalist. Both human systems have their flaws despite what you might find admirable about them.

When the Lord returns, the flawed systems won't be the ones chosen and we won't know for sure what system will be set in place until we see it in action and experience it.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Dictator. "I remember when eating meat on a Friday was a hellworthy sin"

a reply to: boymonkey74

YoungMale-Haplorrhini: It would never come up because J wouldn't want to discuss sex, politics and religion™ It isn't "good form" and really not Cricket..

P.S. I'm really not stalking You around ATS™ hahahaha

a reply to: boymonkey74

The King of kings would be a monarch.

What form of government would Jesus go for?.

I think the Mexican style government is called a Federal Republic.www.indexmundi.com...

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Mark 8:36

Definitely not big on possessions, especially at the cost of one's soul.

And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. Luke 12:15

I think that one tackles the technological luxuries a bit perhaps. If one's life isn't to consist of the abundance of material goods, then that kind of tells me that a lot of our technological luxuries would simply fall under that.

And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. Matthew 6:28-31

Pretty sure Jesus would think that naked Amish socialists would be some pretty cool dudes. Or perhaps Aboriginal Australians.

**On second thought, aboriginals win because Amish work too hard toiling that field.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Simple answer.... one that fears and worships Him. The rest would take care of itself.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Actually, Socialism was Communism. Russia used to be called USSR, the United Soviet Socialist Republic.

But one could be a socialist, meaning they want social equality and justice, but Socialism itself was Communist. When making the claim of yourself, always remember that you need to use the little s, not the big S, because they are not mutually the same thing.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Eliyahu

Love that tune

Gonna find more from him now cheers.

Very good.....
seen this?

Well I can tell you this much, he wouldn't go for any government... he wants you ENLIGHTENED, not following some pyramidal power structure like governments and religions... arise and realize who you really are. PEACE.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Wrong.

www.diffen.com...

Not hard they are called different things.

But please stick to the actual topic If you wish to discuss why communism is the same as socialism make your own thread (still wrong).