Type 2 or late onset diabetes

I just thought I'd inform fellow members on some interesting information regarding type 2 diabetes which seems to be becoming epidemic at least in the developed countries. Having been diagnosed about six months ago, I first went to the doc because of recurring boils, as soon as one cleaned up another started. Within a month on the usual Metaformin a couple of tabs a day, the boils cleared up. But after buying a blood glucose monitor, I kept checking the readings..the usual is to take the reading a couple of hours after a meal, when it spikes, and one after you get up before breakfast to get a fasting reading, this is when it should be its lowest. The best I seemed to manage was about 8 mlmols in the morning, and it was heading for 9 after a meal...multiply by 18 to get the American reading,or divide by 18 to convert back to British. After doing some research I read an interesting but non definitive study about taking Apple Cider vinegar with the meal as it was said to lower blood glucose levels significantly. So I thought id do a test, by eating the same meal for a couple of days, the first day I checked the Blood glucose levels every couple of hours and recorded them. Morning reading was 8.5 and it seemed to hover from 8 to 9 through the day day. The second day when I got up the reading was as usual around 8 So I put two capfuls of store bought cider vinegar in an 8 oz glass of water, after an hour after drinking it the reading was down to seven, with the noon meal I took another dose, and an hour after it was 6.5 since then ive been drinking it every time I have a meal and did a reading every couple of hours, the reading are now hovering around 5.8 to 6.1 which is bang on normal and apart from sore fingers where the lancet stabs can feel a great difference.
Some reports stated that some peoples blood sugar dropped to low and they had to stop taking the Metaformin tabs, some had to take sugar to get the Blood glucose levels up.
I just thought that I'd share this experience with ATS. My thoughts are that along with everything else as you age, you get a bit deficient in stomach acid, and the hormone insulin. The Cider Vinegar might make up for this deficiency and slow the sugar absorption. Because its called "late onset diabetes" its a bit of a clue.

a reply to: anonentity

Very interesting, and glad to see you got your blood sugar back down.

Can you tell us what your morning meal consisted of normally?

a reply to: eriktheawful

Usually I don't eat anything but a couple of cups of coffee until noon..Then I usually have some cheese and onion in a couple of slices of bread pan fried in olive oil, with an egg on top. This usually pushed the BS. up. but with the couple of capfuls swigged directly after eating , the reading seems to just go up a couple of points. Before it would go over 8.

a reply to: anonentity

As an addendum remember not all Apple Cider vinegars have ever seen an apple, and Statins and chondroitin seem to inhibit the effect. In fact its reported that ten percent of people on statins will develop type 2 diabetes, and half will suffer mild to severe upper back pain, half will get cataracts within two years. Also triglyceride levels drop with prolonged vinegar use. Still 6.1 this morning.

I see you use olive oil.

Any wheat or other grain product should be eaten with olive oil as it lowers the glycemic index.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.glycemicindex.com...

type 2 diabetes and late onset adult diabetes are two different types of diabetes.

late onset adult diabetes also known as type 1.5 latent autoimmune diabetes is a autoimmune disorder

www.mayoclinic.org...

a reply to: ANNED

Thanks for that, easting healthy is always a good thing. That's why I changed to olive oil. Its been a week since I did the trial. But whatever the reasons the results seem to suggest a significant drop in Blood glucose levels. Where the only dietary change has been the vinegar consumption. I'll raise the thread again after the next blood test results, the triglyceride levels were fairly high as well.

I found this article and am in the process of verifying a lot of what he talks about. I understand what he is saying, knowing a majority of the words and processes in the body already. I'm about a third done, I have to get more notes to do more research so I have to listen to it again.

I'm not promoting the Paleo diet, just trying to understand the processes better so I can apply the knowledge to situations. There is a link to the audio under the picture which is pretty interesting. What I have checked out so far has been pretty much right on and the application he is making seems reasonable. I do have a few options other than the paleo diet to consider. There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is a lot of good info here. www.meandmydiabetes.com...

Now, Taurine does just about the same thing as glyberide. Metaformin is a little different process that arives at the same effect as glyberide. Taurine has some effects that are better than glyberide though. But it does cause a destruction of pterins which is the same effect as sulfa drugs have. This could cause problems in some people because of various reasons leading up to possible raised sulfite levels in the blood. Don't take Taurine energy drinks when taking diabetic medicine, it can lead to problems.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yes and thanks very interesting, I'll be checking and observing for a few more weeks but these results look interesting. I had a salmon sandwich for lunch the same bread as I fried in olive oil.. Two hours later the BS. reading was 6.5 but three hours later it was 5.8 this is interesting as on the olive oil it only went up to 6.1

a reply to: anonentity

The chemistry of the fish probably has more effect on diabetes than the olive oil does. The taurine in fish is high, it has chemistry with proper sulfide and nitrogen bonds in it. Pretty balanced, as long as you can process the sulfur compounds properly. Olive oil is a better alternative than many other oils, especially soybean oil which can have goiterogenic effects and lower cellular function.

I got tangled up into researching some oils again this morning. Also studying the effects of Annatto to see both it's positive and negative effects. The highly processed annotto additive probably is not really the same as real annatto though. I spent a lot of time researching the properties of ginger and ginger flavoring, some of the benificial effects of ginger still exist in the dried powder, but many do not. Now, annotto coloring may not seem related to diabetes but it can cause immune system responses that can lead to constant inflammation in some people. 26 percent of people have a small reaction to this coloring. Yellow no. 5 and 6 also can have some bad responses, although they are different in nature. There are so many possible causes with so many chemicals being allowed to be added to foods that it makes it hard. Also there has been changes to the way they process foods over the years. Some changes are better, others are worse.

a reply to: anonentity

Some good support info on using Apple Cider Vinegar

number of human studies have been performed indicating that vinegar will reduce both insulin response and blood sugar elevations following a meal

Green Med Info - Apple Cider Vinegar & Blood Sugar This article was written by Sayer Ji the founder of the site. All the info on his site and his articles are based on studies in Pub Med

Best to use organic RAW Apple Cider Vinegar. Might not make as much difference for this but does for other things. You would need to get it at Health Food Stores as most stores don't carry it. It is untreated, not pasteurized as that kills many of the essential ingredients.

Another good one for diabetes is Turmeric. Be careful as it can lower your blood sugar too much! But sounds like you are watching it very Carefully!Turmeric & Diabetes

2009 study published in the journal Biochemitry and Biophysical Research Community explored how curcumin might be valuable in treating diabetes

A lot of the time they talk about Curcumin which is an extract from Turmeric. Supposed to be more potent. My brother tried the Turmeric - I made him "Golden Milk" (you can google it or go to Youtube). It is just a paste made of water and turmeric. You heat milk (I used almond milk), add in turmeric paste - would start with 1/2 tsp or less! Add a dash of black pepper as it is absorbed better and some kind of sweetener - honey, stevia. First time we used a full teaspoon and his blood sugar dropped too low. Changed to 1/2 tsp and he didn't take his meds.

You can get turmeric in bulk from a Health Food Store or online. Don't use the little bottles of spice - too expensive. As always - you should consult with your doctor first and not FDA approved!

Overall Turmeric has side effects/benefits! It lowers inflammation which often means less aches and pains. Also inflammation is a root cause of many chronic and acute diseases.

All the drugs they put you on have some pretty horrible side effects. Sometimes you have no choice. Glad you are researching and taking care of yourself.

a reply to: anonentity

I have type 1 diabetes (autoimmune). I haven't been taking the apple cider vinegar, but I know I have read that it can improve blood sugars in both types of diabetes. I think the things that I read may have even been medical studies. I would have to dig to find those stuides. Another thing that I have read helps type 2 diabetics is a yellow extract from a plant called Berberine. I actually take Berberine myself. The company that makes it is called Yellow Gold. Look up the medical studies on Berberine. Big pharma actually makes a diabetes pill that the main component of it is Berberine. I myself take it, because I notice that it GREATLY enhances insulin absorption in me (even though I am a type 1). Do some research. Look at my thread asking ATS if there is a cure for type 1 diabetes. There is a lot of info there about vitamins and herbs that I take to help improve the condition. There is a lot of info there, and lots of those things are known to help type 2's as much as type 1's. Not every single one, but do your own research.

I believe that type 2 can be reversed. The doctors may tell you that it cannot. I believe one of the main things that can help is getting rid of ALL grains, processed foods, and buying yourself a good quality juicer. I have done all of those things, and have noticed a significant improvement in my overall health. From what I know, a good target blood sugar for type 2 diabetics should be in the 5.0-6.0 range. You don't want to go much lower than 4.8 mmol/l, and don't want to significantly exceed 6.0 mmol/l, from what I have read.

If you are overweight, switching to a juicing diet of mainly cucumbers, beets, carrots, greens (lettuce, chard, etc.) can help you lose weight VERY rapidly.

Do your own research, and best wishes to you with your condition. Thank you for reminding me about the apple-cider vinegar! That helps.

a reply to: CassandraX

Star for posting the GreenMed info website. That is a powerful source of information on all health condtions, and all of the info is based on medical studies. There are a lot of things I have learned on that website. I just discovered it recently, and it is VERY helpful.

a reply to: InFriNiTee

Thanks for the info. The Cider vinegar seems to be keeping it well within the normal ranges. A friend with the same condition came to stay over the weekend. So I mentioned the fact that I was trying it out with some success. When I read his BS. it was 17.2 So he started with the Vinegar that night. I was getting a bit low on test strips so a little after he used a urine test strip, this read about the same with a lot of sugar in the urine. The next morning it was down to 12 then a little later their was no trace of sugar with the urine test strips. He Phoned me up a few days later and said it was down to 8.Which if he'd eaten a short time before would be within the upper spike range. Considering his normal Blood pressure readings were in the 190 plus with a heartbeat of 50 beats per minute. I'd be interested when we next catch up if this hasn't improved significantly as well.
I notice my average reading is in the 6.2 range and after a walk it reads about 4.7 very little physical exercise seems to drop it below 6. I'm taking two capfuls with every meal and the same before I go to bed.

a reply to: anonentity
Hi anonentity,
Hope this helps, i have just finished a six month study relating to Diabetes and cardiovascular disease
I volunteered for a trial off Vitamin D3 supplement because i fall into the pre diabetes category, ie i do shift work am over weight (BMI reading) and a smoker and drinker.
Now the trial involves a 7 hour visit involving insulin glucose and isotope intravenously pumped into your body (not everyone's cup off tea), to measure how my pancreas dealt with glucose using the body's own insulin,

I had two off these tests at a six month interval as stated i was supplemented by Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol capsules,
My BP dropped to 127/77 (Mean test) and glucose was 4.5 also lost about 7/8 pounds in weight.
And im no longer in the high risk category for getting Diabetes.

I did not change my smoking or drinking habits.

a reply to: foxhound2459

Vitamin D3 that sounds like a very interesting trial!! I too have been a shift worker I also smoke about 8 rollies a day, but as for drinking its so very occasional its not worth the mention. Do you mind me asking what your average blood sugar and blood pressure was before the trial?
When I started to feel like crap I had a boil and elevated Blood pressure and temperature, I was sweetening my drinks with honey. Then after the blood test the doc. said I had Diabetes and was a heart and stroke risk. So he put me on Bp. pills statins and aspirin with of course the Glucophage. The statins were causing a terrible back pain, so I stopped taking them. The honey would send a test strip so far off the scale it went black when I tested some honey in water. So in this instance I don't think honey is a healthy alternative to sugar.
I'll have a think about the D3 it sounds very promising.

a reply to: anonentity
Hi anon
The pancreas regulates your own body's insulin to break down the glucose in your system,
The viteman D3 / Choclecalciferol 3000 units capsule helps your pancreas cope with that,

The other thing i found relevant was the fact that im a ginger haired person so has a reliance on natural sunshine for viteman D3 .
My usual BP was on average 142/83 or there abouts,
Blood sugar was about 6 approx,

Im not saying this is a wonder drug but the research staff got very excited,

The other week i got talking to a work mate and he managed to control his Diabetes through diet alone
Cutting out suger and booze (nothing to to do with ciggies IMO).

Theres alot off money being thrown at this research at the moment (Think big Pharma with an agenda !!).


Just to put it in there i drink alot off tea.

Thanks for your reply. I think big Pharma is taking the p$%^^.The Statins caused terrible upper back pain. so I stopped taking them. I haven't taken the Metformin because its causing an itchy rash on my legs, this has been reported by many people taking them. Its early days but my Blood sugar last check was 5.4 Makes you wonder. Needless to say I'm just eating sensibly and drinking the Vinegar.

a reply to: anonentity
Hi anon just a quick update on Vitemen D3 trials.
Had a telephone call from the research doctor today about the final results of the usage of Vitemen D3 Cholecalciferol 3000 capsules,
I have gone basically from high risk to normal levels for my group IE shift worker, Bad diet and poor sleeping hours.
This is a Fantastic result as far as im concerned the trial seems to be a success,
Im not that naive to think that this isn't all about NHS budgets and saving monies.

Bottom line, Imo get more natural sunshine and use vit D3.
Good luck with the diet.

A supplement that seems to help some is Agmatine Sulfate -- 500 mg.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ANNED
A supplement that seems to help some is Agmatine Sulfate -- 500 mg.
en.wikipedia.org...

Good find ANNED,
My only query would be if your in your Mature years (Most pre and Diabetic seniors)
Is if your using pain relief with opiates ie Co Codamol, Tramadol and the like is be wary off overdoseing .

Wiki: sourse.
Systemic agmatine can potentiate opioid analgesia and prevent tolerance to chronic morphine in laboratory rodents. Since then, cumulative evidence amply shows that agmatine inhibits opioid dependence and relapse.