‘Forced’ to fight: Disillusioned British ISIS Fighters Afraid to Come Home

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Your compassion is admirable, I don't think I could hurt anyone, but you have to wonder how these people raised in the freedom of the west became so radicalized, it didn't happen overnight and I believe there are cells preaching it in the west ,

My mate (who is a muslim) has a theory, which may or may not be true. She believes that a lot of these young people are spoiled by their parents and have no clue about 'real life'. Their parents came over and worked damn hard to build a life for themselves, to fit in with the local communities, to not cause a fuss and to give their children everything that they themselves never had.
Now we are looking at spoiled, entitled brats who have no idea about the lives their parents led and who feel they have a right to everything they want.

Personally I don't think it's as simple as that, but then I'm not part of the Glasgow muslim community so I can't really make a judgement. It is a frightening situation, and one we do need to take very seriously.

Poor fellas...Shooting handcuffed people in the back of the head just ain't no fun anymore...Raping and killing children has just lost its pizzazz...All the glamor is gone...

a reply to: beansidhe

The weegie girl also posted on twitter yesterday that she wished she was the one that behead the latest victim, so she gets absolutely no sympathy from me if she revels in the act of murder. That is someone who has an evil heart and is not welcome back in my country regardless if they made a youthful mistake. Evil is evil and i agree with the thinking that if you fight for a foreign army then you lose the right of citizenship for your home country.
She made her bed with ISIS and she can sleep with them for the rest of her existence for all I care.

I for one think it is only fair we allow them to come home.....after all, treason is still one of the only things still punishable by death in the UK....

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Twitter seems to me to be a double edged sword with regards to these extremists and their doings.

On one hand, giving hardcore murderers an international platform from which to sicken humanity with their depraved ideological ramblings, videos and pictures of their unspeakable acts and their victims, this should be considered highly immoral.

On the other hand it can be viewed as a chronological record of their crimes against humanity. One day, hopefully, justice may be brought to bear on these individuals.

What irks me continuously about these scum who execute their bound prisoners, be it with guns, knives or rope, is the fact that although they claim that God is on their side, the cowardly pieces of filth hide their faces behind scarves. If they were man enough about their convictions they wouldn't hide their identities.

Not suggesting the RT.com are making it up, but as Islamic State has a habit of capturing and killing journalists in brutal ways, one wonders how their journalist got close to British nationals. If the recent events have taught us anything, Islamic State like to control their PR.

I am sure some British nations who thought it was a good idea at the time, are fairly sh*tting bricks at the barbarity of what they have seen, orchestrated by those they may believed were "jolly good freedom fighters out to teach those baddie Muslims a lesson". Do we care?

No. I don't feel sorry for them. I'll perhaps forgive the ones who give the exact grid reference of IS leaders and hostages, but really hope that they are all martyred and are forgotten. Let their non-return be a lesson.

Regards

a reply to: FearYourMind

I guess all the raping, pillaging and lopping off heads got old after awhile?

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: FearYourMind
From the link:

British jihadists in Syria are becoming increasingly disenchanted with their military pursuits in the region and wish to return to their homeland

Awwwe! I feel so bad for them.

Isn't it a shame... They made a decision, now they have to live with it.
They better not be too vocal about it though. The ISIS fighters that already in their homeland might not take pity on them... they might take their heads for trying to abandon the jihad!

I think they're all collaborators with Israel and should be turned over to Hamas.

OK- let's welcome them back...straight into a holding area.

Then...let's transfer them to some random country and extract as much information from them as we can.

Then we can 'deradicalise' them with extreme prejudice.

I don't think we can trust anyone coming back from ISIS.

Say we do let them back - hundreds of them. Then they decide our ways offend them once again and we have hundreds of trained jihadists on the loose. Bad, bad idea.

As the second post said - they made their bed - let them die in it...or a holding cell near Heathrow.

Great Britain isn't the Fawlty Towers hotel.

You can't just check out to go on a killing spree and then decided your bored or it's not your cup of tea and expect to come home like your returning from your holidays it doesn't work like that.

I'm glad the government are going to ban them from re-entering its about time we said enough is enough.

Im pretty certain that the UK and even some of our governments would let them in. I would impose prison on those who come, not 30 years, maybe more like 15, without pardon and alot of deprogramming and mandatory work to share their horrific tales with teenagers and prevent them from following the same path, otherwise it would be 30.

However, if in their shoes, I would gladly return to spend 30 years in jail rather than continue to murder innocents.

They're in bad shoes spiritually, time reflecting on what they've done in jail cells may be a good thing.

Let them come back on the understanding that they will have to face trial and imprisonment for any crimes they are shown to have committed. That seems fair enough. They are, after all, citizens of their respecitve countries, and must be entitled to the same rights as all other citizens.

If you wish to abrogate the rule of law to have your revenge on people of this kind, understand this: you are morally no better than they.

I'm no believer in turning the other cheek at all costs; but some people on this thread would murder justice in order to enjoy a few brief minutes of satisfaction at the death of another human being. Atrocious.

If you're going to Syria,
Be sure to wear a dish cloth on your head.
If you're going to fight for ISIS
You better wear
Some bullets made of lead.

In the ISIS nation,
There's a whole generation
That likes decapitation
Psychos in motion
Yeah ... psychos in motion ...

Ah yes the follies of youth ...

On a more serious note, I don't think all of them committed the same crimes against humanity.
Of course one should welcome a truly repentant soul back.
In fact, their narratives could be quite useful in a cautionary sense, since some radical Muslim preachers are still invited on certain media to tell us how wonderful the Caliphate is.
I saw a whole range of clips that featured Anjem Choudary as an "expert", and this is much harder to forgive than some brainwashed 16-year-old idealist.

By my experience the radicalism is spreading (we had a bomb blast this week that might signal the return of Islamist urban terror in Cape Town).
It's not so much about how the Christian or Western multicultural society will forgive them.
They have to worry about how the Islamic community will receive them, which will include extremists and Islamist sympathizers wherever they go.

Maybe it will be easier for Europeans from Christian and atheist backgrounds, whose kids fell for Islam as a kind of cult outside their culture.
But for those who want to come home to Islamic controlled enclaves?
Some might regard them as traitors or deserters.

Perhaps they should first go and live as Buddhists or Hare Krishnas for a few years in another country, until it all blows over.

Astyanax,
Let's remember that the beheading, crucifying innocent people and killing innocent women and children are not the civilian type. They were committed in a situation of war- Jihad. They are war crimes, and are treated very different than 'normal' committed murders on the street.

a reply to: halfoldman

In fact, their narratives could be quite useful in a cautionary sense, since some radical Muslim preachers are still invited on certain media to tell us how wonderful the Caliphate is.

Exactly.

They would also be excellent sources of intelligence regarding the organization of IS, the disposition of its forces, their morale and much more.

It would be stupid to forgo the opportunity to collect such information just for the pleasure of extracting an eye for an eye.

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a reply to: MarkJS

Let's remember that the beheading, crucifying innocent people and killing innocent women and children are not the civilian type. They were committed in a situation of war- Jihad. They are war crimes, and are treated very different than 'normal' committed murders on the street.

Are people murdered in a jihad any deader than people murdered in the street by muggers, or in their homes by burglars?

All crimes are, or should be, treated the same way — as crimes. It could be argued that war criminals are less culpable than civilian criminals, because they are part of a group that supports or at least winks at their behaviour, and they may even have been ordered to do what they did. It was, I believe, established at Nüremberg that such excuses do not diminish individual criminal responsibility — a judgement of which I approve — but it certainly doesn't increase it either.

Evict the jihadist in your own heart than makes you think in these terms. Until you do, you remain part of the problem.

turn them into double agents.

Give them GPS tracking devices and have them place them on ISIS C3 equipment and headquarters.

Tell them they have to do this for 6 months and hope ISIS catches them.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: halfoldman

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a reply to: MarkJS

Let's remember that the beheading, crucifying innocent people and killing innocent women and children are not the civilian type. They were committed in a situation of war- Jihad. They are war crimes, and are treated very different than 'normal' committed murders on the street.

Are people murdered in a jihad any deader than people murdered in the street by muggers, or in their homes by burglars?

All crimes are, or should be, treated the same way — as crimes. It could be argued that war criminals are less culpable than civilian criminals, because they are part of a group that supports or at least winks at their behaviour, and they may even have been ordered to do what they did. It was, I believe, established at Nüremberg that such excuses do not diminish individual criminal responsibility — a judgement of which I approve — but it certainly doesn't increase it either.

Looks like I wasn't clear. Sorry. I'm not advocating more leniency; I'm advocating less.

a reply to: Astyanax

Theres only one way to deal with rabbid dogs .. put them down permanently.

The topic makes me think how such a cult uses film to actually keep members in line and in a kind of mental prison.
Such clips are not simply made to shock the outside world.
They carry clear messages for those in the group.

It seems that the true death-cult believers (to the bitter end) implicate the minions.
Once they appear on film to parrot speeches they know they can be recognized, and the civilized world has spat them out.

Hence, I think it will be quite important to create amnesty camps, which can facilitate desertion.
There they should be dealt with and accessed on an individual basis.

I believe that many of the foreign kids came from middle class families, and they were not made for this killing.
Their brainwashing will wane.
Any true local support for ISIS will also wane - it always does for any totalitarian group, no matter how the masses cheer at first.
What the core of ISIS seems to attempt is to make the members think they have to stay, because there is no more way out once they have been implicated.

While I agree with the utter distaste for the group, and that some - perhaps many - are beyond rehabilitation, I think that encouraging desertion with humane treatment, hopes for amnesty and eventual rehabilitation, may at least be a part of the solution.

A lot of countries will also have to ask themselves how it could have ever come to this, and in a sense they also allowed it through misplaced leftism, slanted global news that only focused on Muslims as victims (and only discussing topics like slavery and colonialism when Christian white men were the culprits, while completely ignoring the truth about historic Islamic colonialism) and political correctness.
Some of what Islamists like Choudary mention comes directly from common liberal academia, which is very one-sided towards Muslims as victims.
While one wouldn't want to support right-wing extremists either, the way history and current affairs are approached will also have to change to be more equitable, because it's not only extremist websites that tell Muslims they have an axe to grind.

In any case, encourage desertion, because we will not stoop to their barbarism.
Then we can put them all on a boat, and sink it on the way to Guantanamo Bay.

Er no, not really ... I'm not really sure what then.

Reply to: MarkJS

I'm not advocating more leniency; I'm advocating less.

Yes, and I disagree. War crimes are no better nor worse than civilian crimes, and their perpertrators have as much right to justice as common thieves and murderers.

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Reply to: Expat888

Theres only one way to deal with rabbid dogs .. put them down permanently.

These are not dogs. They are human beings like you. They have mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, possibly families of their own. They have hopes and fears, loves and hatreds, talents and tastes, just like you do.

And — judging by your statements — you have a lot more in common with them politically than you think you do.