Sandy Hook: Did an AR-15 Do This?

a reply to: Domo1

Check out the spalling and lead powder residue from this video (@ 2:40) I guess you don't need a guy with a fingerprint kit after all.

a reply to: PREDEVpersona

Hey OP.....go here:
cspsandyhookreport.ct.gov...

Scroll down to 22 assorted files then inside find Walkley-scene photos.....should be 2nd from the end......

Now proceed to 404-427 for all the bullet holes tagged near the front entrance.
You will see they labeled the area behind where the glass was blown out.
It looks like several areas of impact are indicated but look at picture 408.....a pile of gray ash.
Would these 2 impacts on the wall from a 5.56 round do this?

Also find picture 504.........this is a gunshot round found lying around they claim the first responders dropped.
Anyone know if this is a breaching round?

a reply to: Sunwolf

The 5.56 is an incredibly powerful cartridge?You have got to be kidding!

Well, compared to any handgun, it is, with roughly twice the energy of a .44 magnum round at zero distance. But itself less than half the energy of your .30-06, and a third the energy of, say, a .338 Lapua. What the heck, here's the stats:

.44 magnum, 240 gr 741 ft-lbs
.223, 62 gr 1322 ft-lbs
.30-06, 147 gr 2974 ft-lbs
.338 lapua, 300 gr 4673 ft-lbs

Then again, you're not going to be firing a .30-06 or a .338 from a 30-round clip. In my own experience, my opinion is the lightweight .223 is pretty easily deflected as compared to a heavier round - whether by glass, grass, drywall or wind, over distance. But it's a very lethal round in its engagement envelope, due to its high velocity and tendency to yaw after impact.

Anyway, to the OP's original question, there are differing types of safety glass - this was likely tempered safety glass - "tempered" to resist breakage, but what makes it "safety glass" is it's *designed* to, when broken, shatter into those characteristic cubes/granules, as opposed to, say, those long and lethal shards regular glass breaks into.

Basically, it resists breakage, but once the glass is broken, it shatters into relatively harmless small fragments - so the pictured window class could easily have been a single .223 (or two) - no breaching round necessary to cause the damage in that photo.

The other types of "safety" glass would have proven to be more an obstacle:

-- laminated safety glass, with an interlayer of plastic to which two (or more) glass sheets are bonded to, (like an auto windshield) would yield to a bullet, but the breach would be relatively contained, as the plastic sheet would still be there, holding the rest of the pane together.

-- wired glass, which you used to see in schools, but not so much these days, as it's not really all that "safe" compared to tempered safety glass.

BTW also at the link I posted above see pictures 8-11 which show expended shells where he would have shot the glass out.

a reply to: squittles

Thanks for your contribution. You seem to know your stuff. What are your thoughts on the nature of the gray powder on the book shelf?

a reply to: SMOKINGGUN2012

Thank you, SMOKINGGUN2012. I do recall talk of shotgun shells being found near the entrance. It's interesting to see that confirmed.

a reply to: PREDEVpersona

I will also divulge the fact that I believe Adam Lanza was set up like a bowling pin

Exactly

Another good picture of the window here
www.rense.com...

As far as I am concerned.

Lanza did it.

As to how, and what he used that will remain a 'mystery'.

For the simple fact when it comes for firearms the 'media' get's it WRONG 99% of the time.

For no other reason they hate guns, and WILL DO anything to demagogue them.

Checked with some people on a couple firearms forums. There is nearly a unanimous consensus that a shotgun caused the damage to the magazine rack. A couple guys weren't sure. None thought it was an AR-15. Didn't mention Sandy Hook. Just showed the photo and noted that the round went through a window first.

Examples:

"Well, it's certainly a challenge and mostly a crapshoot from one flat photo. But, that being said I'll hazard my 2 cents. It sure looks like a shotgun.
My reasoning;
A BIG hole. .223 makes, well, .223 inch holes. The surrounding small impacts...sure looks like shotgun splatter.
Shoot enough and you'll see everything. It's hard to imagine a .223 round going through a window and causing that. Easy to see it as a shotgun."

"I would bet on that coming from a shotgun. One of the new self defence rounds."

"That looks just like the shotgun blast hole that someone put through the passenger door of an old PUT I had back in the day."

"I have to go along with the "shotgun crowd". The large hole appears to be about 1 1/4 inches by about 1/2 inch, even if a .223 bullet keyholed, it would not produce a hole that large."

"that's done by a shotgun. the "grey dust" is powdered lead from shot that hit the glass pane and disintegrated to powder. most likely bird shot due the smaller hole sizes.


the main hole is way larger than a 223 or 308 or 30-06 even if you flattened the bullet into a pancake with a hammer first.

the gage is probably a .410. it appears some of the pellets stoped on the surface. the lack of penetration and size of the hole screams 410 birdshot"

"Larger hole is likely caused by the shot cup ("wadding"). A higher definition pic would help, but as Jon said- birdshot round."

"That is NOT an AR!"

Here's the pic of one of the shells found at the scene:




And here are a couple photos of the end of the Glock barrel with Lanza's hair stuck to the end of it, which to me reinforces the claim - stated elsewhere in the official report - that he was likely shot in the back of the head:





Planning to get additional opinions from a few police and law enforcement sources.

a reply to: PREDEVpersona
I have been searching images for that 12 gauge round. Photo #504 looks like it possibly says Federal Tactical Entry on it, although not all of that is visible in the photo. Here is a breach round from a different manufacturer. It looks similar to #504.

That damage doesn't look like it came from a 5.56 round. I could see the window perhaps. If shot at close range, the muzzle blast would break loose any pieces of glass barely hanging on. However, in safety glass, it wouldn't cause holes that big. Most of the school glass is designed not to make a big mess if shattered.

As to the book case, the small holes could be glass shards maybe while the large hole is a bullet that is tumbling after being skewed through a sheet of glass. But, and it's a big but, I can't see it.

There are multiple types of breaching rounds. Some are powdered steel/tin/zinc held together with a glue or wax (some are even sintered) but others are just packed powder. From a shotgun barrel, the powder's pattern would expand immensely in even short distances, quite a bit quicker than even birdshot such as #8 or #7 shot. However, some would still remain centered.

What the book case looks like to me is a bonded breaching round (most of it staying centered in the shot pattern while the bits and pieces that fly off are the small spots around the hole).

The glass looks like a shotgun blast as well, more than likely short range (shot pattern coupled with the immense muzzle blast from a short barreled 12 gauge).

However, to make any final judgements, I'd have to know the age of the school or the time the glass was installed, and the exact materials used in the construction of the book case. You can only tell so much from photographs.

It's an excellent question and one that should be asked but like most everything Sandy Hook, even though it makes no logical sense, it is just out of the reach of being able to being proved conclusively.

With that said, there is much evidence that can be proved conclusively and still, nobody listens and everyone censors. How can you hope for truth when everyone and everything is stacked against it?

How about 739-743? A tactical rifled slug, 12 Gauge? Found lying on the floor?

originally posted by: squittles
a reply to: Sunwolf

The 5.56 is an incredibly powerful cartridge?You have got to be kidding!

Well, compared to any handgun, it is, with roughly twice the energy of a .44 magnum round at zero distance. But itself less than half the energy of your .30-06, and a third the energy of, say, a .338 Lapua. What the heck, here's the stats:

.44 magnum, 240 gr 741 ft-lbs
.223, 62 gr 1322 ft-lbs
.30-06, 147 gr 2974 ft-lbs
.338 lapua, 300 gr 4673 ft-lbs

Then again, you're not going to be firing a .30-06 or a .338 from a 30-round clip. In my own experience, my opinion is the lightweight .223 is pretty easily deflected as compared to a heavier round - whether by glass, grass, drywall or wind, over distance. But it's a very lethal round in its engagement envelope, due to its high velocity and tendency to yaw after impact.

Anyway, to the OP's original question, there are differing types of safety glass - this was likely tempered safety glass - "tempered" to resist breakage, but what makes it "safety glass" is it's *designed* to, when broken, shatter into those characteristic cubes/granules, as opposed to, say, those long and lethal shards regular glass breaks into.

Basically, it resists breakage, but once the glass is broken, it shatters into relatively harmless small fragments - so the pictured window class could easily have been a single .223 (or two) - no breaching round necessary to cause the damage in that photo.

The other types of "safety" glass would have proven to be more an obstacle:

-- laminated safety glass, with an interlayer of plastic to which two (or more) glass sheets are bonded to, (like an auto windshield) would yield to a bullet, but the breach would be relatively contained, as the plastic sheet would still be there, holding the rest of the pane together.

-- wired glass, which you used to see in schools, but not so much these days, as it's not really all that "safe" compared to tempered safety glass.

CLIP???

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: Sunwolf

originally posted by: Snarl
No telling. The 5.56 is an incredibly powerful cartridge even if the bullet weight isn't much to speak of. I would expect someone considered the fragmentation effects ... but maybe the entry location just didn't get as much attention as the main event.

Did you notice the label below the hole in the magazine rack? Was that finger-print powder applied by an over zealous detective during the forensic examination (remember it's been labeled)?

The 5.56 is an incredibly powerful cartridge?You have got to be kidding!Strange as how I can`t get the 5.56 to penetrate auto windshield reliably,yet a 30-06 will go through the glass through the entire interior and through the gas tank and into the ground.Incredibly powerful?Geez!

I'd be amazed if you were firing a 55 gr bullet from a 30-06 cartridge. LOL

Laugh!Here ya go....

www.midwayusa.com...


Yes,I have fired a 55 grain bullet from a 30-06,I was comparing effects of a 150 gr.30-06 to a the standard 5.56,duh!

I'm just a regular joe who shoots anywhere from 500-1000rds a month at the range from a handgun and a rifle. Let me tell you, a 223 or 556 is extremely sensationalized by the media. It really isn't anything special. It doesn't penetrate anything aside from flesh relatively well. And no i'm not a "professional" or some sort of "expert" on the subject but I will agree with others that 223/556 didn't cause damage in the aforementioned pictures. This whole thing is odd to me..and it screams more than one person had to be involved...especially when you consider how lanza died and where the enterance/exit wound was pronounced

That doesn't happen from self inflicted suicide folks. I don't care what MSM says, you're no gumby and you cant reach behind your head to off yourself

Anyone here know how to do voise analysis ?

It's such a shame that the shiny new CCTV dissapeared as we would definately know what happened at the doors,I was under the impression that emergency services did all the glass breaking. Silly me sound like a conspracy theorist for a moment there.

a reply to: boogiegk
Thank you for pointing that slug out. Federal packages those slugs as follows:
Federal
Premium
Law Enforcement
Ammunition


That's interesting, although I believe anyone can purchase them. It doesn't make sense that there are live shells strewn about, when the Saiga shotgun was supposedly left in the car outside.

Page #743

a reply to: PREDEVpersona
There was a British "super" soldier brought to the US, allegedly, for mission. James Casbolt/Michael Prince. He talks about Sandy Hook (and not wanting to remember it) in one of the later BASES interviews (31?) on youtoob. He also talks about how hie is sometimes given scopolomine to forget, etc. He claims to have tried assassinating a number of people. Says there's a war going on or confederation of 4th Reich and the globalists. when he came to train in the army from UK, he says he and an isreali guy trained together for something. He then left the states soon after SH. Reads/sounds like a fantasy novel.
Are there mindcontrolled JAson bournes running around doing the bidding of cabals?
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...