A Stunning New Map Reveals For The First Time Where Our Galaxy Fits Into The Universe

originally posted by: wildespace
a reply to: edmc^2

Why would order require intelligence?

And looking at the Laniakea supercluster, I don't see much order anyway. I see a bunch of galaxies moving under the influence of gravity. apod.nasa.gov...

Here's my position on order: any universe, even if it came into existence chaotically, must have at least some rules and laws. It's like with absolute nothingness: it cannot exist; there must always be something. If you're looking for intelligence behind all that order and all those laws, what created that intelligence? How did it come into being? Could God himself be the result of chaotic processes?

"Why would order require intelligence?"

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence. They come hand and hand.

As to the question of the origin of God - you've answered it already.

"there must always be something"

That is, something infinite without beginning and end has always existed. Hence uncreated, always existing.

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

originally posted by: Phage

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

Isn't there a degree of uniformity in the distribution of said clumps in "the soup" of dark matter and dark energy, that cannot be explained solely on the basis of gravitational force?

originally posted by: Phage

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

The intelligence I'm talking about is THE foundation of order. Meaning for every system that has an order, beneath it or under it or inside it or so rounding it - governing it are undeniable established rules.

Case in point:

The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

Consider:

1. Gravity > this a very weak force on the level of atoms. It affects large objects, i.e.: planets, stars, galaxies.


2. Electromagnetism > This is the key attracting force between protons and electrons, allowing molecules to form.


3. Strong nuclear force > This the force that glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom.

4. Weak nuclear force > This the force that governs the decay of radioactive elements and the efficient thermonuclear activity of the sun.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

The intelligence I'm talking about is THE foundation of order. Meaning for every system that has an order, beneath it or under it or inside it or so rounding it - governing it are undeniable established rules.

Case in point:

The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

Consider:

1. Gravity > this a very weak force on the level of atoms. It affects large objects, i.e.: planets, stars, galaxies.


2. Electromagnetism > This is the key attracting force between protons and electrons, allowing molecules to form.


3. Strong nuclear force > This the force that glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom.

4. Weak nuclear force > This the force that governs the decay of radioactive elements and the efficient thermonuclear activity of the sun.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

reflex. action without thought.

I'm sure someone already posted or mentioned it but the oldies are the best

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

The intelligence I'm talking about is THE foundation of order. Meaning for every system that has an order, beneath it or under it or inside it or so rounding it - governing it are undeniable established rules.

Case in point:

The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

Consider:

1. Gravity > this a very weak force on the level of atoms. It affects large objects, i.e.: planets, stars, galaxies.


2. Electromagnetism > This is the key attracting force between protons and electrons, allowing molecules to form.


3. Strong nuclear force > This the force that glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom.

4. Weak nuclear force > This the force that governs the decay of radioactive elements and the efficient thermonuclear activity of the sun.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

reflex. action without thought.

What's the foundation of reflex?

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

The intelligence I'm talking about is THE foundation of order. Meaning for every system that has an order, beneath it or under it or inside it or so rounding it - governing it are undeniable established rules.

Case in point:

The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

Consider:

1. Gravity > this a very weak force on the level of atoms. It affects large objects, i.e.: planets, stars, galaxies.


2. Electromagnetism > This is the key attracting force between protons and electrons, allowing molecules to form.


3. Strong nuclear force > This the force that glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom.

4. Weak nuclear force > This the force that governs the decay of radioactive elements and the efficient thermonuclear activity of the sun.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

reflex. action without thought.

What's the foundation of reflex?

"an action that is performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought." thats what reflex means.

originally posted by: blupblup

I'm sure someone already posted or mentioned it but the oldies are the best

Q: Which one is the BLUEPRINT?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

The intelligence I'm talking about is THE foundation of order. Meaning for every system that has an order, beneath it or under it or inside it or so rounding it - governing it are undeniable established rules.

Case in point:

The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

Consider:

1. Gravity > this a very weak force on the level of atoms. It affects large objects, i.e.: planets, stars, galaxies.


2. Electromagnetism > This is the key attracting force between protons and electrons, allowing molecules to form.


3. Strong nuclear force > This the force that glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom.

4. Weak nuclear force > This the force that governs the decay of radioactive elements and the efficient thermonuclear activity of the sun.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

reflex. action without thought.

What's the foundation of reflex?

"an action that is performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought." thats what reflex means.

I got that but your not getting what I'm saying. That is, for any reflex to occur there must be an underlying rule/parameter that it must adhere to. In other words, reflex is a reaction or an action to an established set of rules.

What triggered the reflex?

In universal term - what caused to Universe to form in a such an organized form?

a reply to: edmc^2

Nothing, yet something in particular, and everything at once.

We can never actually know. What came first, the chicken or the egg? We're not meant to know.

We can only find out the origin of the universe by studying its demise, or by very unlikely time travel.

originally posted by: edmc^2
The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

From the properties of quantum vacuum?

No matter how I look at it, I can't see the necessity of intelligence for these forces to exist.

Besides, in other universes (if they exist), these forces and physical constants may be different, making the formation of stars and the appearance of life impossible.

There's a simple but poignant practical experiment anyone can do: scatter a bunch of peas on a flat surface, or roll them down some slope. It turns out that the peas tend to gather and concentrate in some places, rather than being spread out evenly. Chaos is at work here, causing something random to create structures and organisation. Just like two colliding galaxies creates beautiful spiral arms. It's just the way things happen.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage

Because there's nothing in the universe that has order but not intelligence.

A year lasts 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds. Quite consistently. That's order. Not very intelligent though. It's a function of the mass of the Sun, the Earth's distance from it, and the rate of Earth's rotation.

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

The intelligence I'm talking about is THE foundation of order. Meaning for every system that has an order, beneath it or under it or inside it or so rounding it - governing it are undeniable established rules.

Case in point:

The four fundamental physical forces the govern the Universe.

i.e.: Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, Electromagnetism.

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

Consider:

1. Gravity > this a very weak force on the level of atoms. It affects large objects, i.e.: planets, stars, galaxies.


2. Electromagnetism > This is the key attracting force between protons and electrons, allowing molecules to form.


3. Strong nuclear force > This the force that glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom.

4. Weak nuclear force > This the force that governs the decay of radioactive elements and the efficient thermonuclear activity of the sun.

Without these forces the Universe cannot exist and will not exist.

But where did they come from absence of intelligence?

reflex. action without thought.

What's the foundation of reflex?

"an action that is performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought." thats what reflex means.

I got that but your not getting what I'm saying. That is, for any reflex to occur there must be an underlying rule/parameter that it must adhere to. In other words, reflex is a reaction or an action to an established set of rules.

What triggered the reflex?

In universal term - what caused to Universe to form in a such an organized form?

whats if its not a rule? what if its...a reflex!

originally posted by: audenine

originally posted by: Phage

Just as the somewhat random clumping of galaxies is a function of the gravitational forces between them.

Isn't there a degree of uniformity in the distribution of said clumps in "the soup" of dark matter and dark energy, that cannot be explained solely on the basis of gravitational force?

No.

a reply to: edmc^2

These forces, didn't just come about on their own without intelligence.

I disagree.
If they did not come to be as they did the Universe would not be as it is.
If I roll the dice and don't get boxcars, I'll get something else.

originally posted by: blupblup

I'm sure someone already posted or mentioned it but the oldies are the best

Makes me wonder if the universe is a conscious being itself....or God....ect and we are just thought patterns in this beings mind.

a reply to: xXSvenXx

Makes me wonder if the universe is a conscious being itself....or God....ect and we are just thought patterns in this beings mind.

If it is, it thinks really, really slowly. That's a long way between ganglia. For Laniakea that's 100's of millions of years for one to talk to another. Scale that up to the entire Universe...well, there may be enough "computing power" but it ain't going to be really smart.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: xXSvenXx

Makes me wonder if the universe is a conscious being itself....or God....ect and we are just thought patterns in this beings mind.

If it is, it thinks really, really slowly. That's a long way between ganglia. For Laniakea that's 100's of millions of years for one to talk to another. Scale that up to the entire Universe...well, there may be enough "computing power" but it ain't going to be really smart.

At least in our time scale. It could be the fastest computer in existence, yet only from its own full-size perspective (and that of the great attractor - a guy eating a donut).

a reply to: Phage

I guess a hummingbird probably thinks us humans are big dumb slow idiots to.
But to us we operate just fine.

a reply to: xXSvenXx
Not really. Hummingbirds don't really think faster than we do. They just have very high metabolic rates.