223 TRILLION DOLLAR world dept ?????

a reply to: Osiris1953

you must not have a job or get paid in any way, right

only someone with a trust fund or mom to take care of them would say such a thing.

A lot of the 223 trillion is in derivatives. The banksters take out multiple loans on a single physical object.

1st loan is for a house or factory machinery.

Then that loan is traded as real money because the loan is almost always paid back.

Then that real money is used to make another loan, which is traded as real money etc...

So in real physical wealth there is only the house or machinery of the first loan, but there is 3 to 10 times as much money attached to the house and machinery as they are worth.

HE who has the gold makes the rules, and the FED has all of the gold, because it says so.

Everything a person owns is really owned by the government.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s 1933 executive order outlawing the private ownership of gold in the United States
www.moonlightmint.com...

No competition with the FED is allowed.

On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was pronounced guilty of "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".[5][6]
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ImaFungi

Which statement are you referring to?

Nope, no trust fund.

Got booted out of my parents house 14 years ago.

Have a wife & two children and I happen to be the only bread winner in the house.

Not that it matters, I should be able to have an opinion without people making wild assumptions about my personal life.

a reply to: Osiris1953

"$223 Trillion of worthless paper. Money no longer has any value beyond general faith in its acceptability."

I was responding to that statement.

Money is worth how much you have to work to gain the things you need to live. If it is not worth anything, id like to see you live without it.

a reply to: ImaFungi

I'm not talking about it's value to an individual, I'm speaking in much broader terms.

I'm well aware of the value of money to a person, however there is nothing backing our money anymore. Money more or less exists as an abstract concept at this point.

The part about money not having any value beyond general faith in its acceptability is almost verbatim from my economics textbook circa 1999. My statement wasn't hyperbole or some kind of detached statement from a rich guy. It's a generally accepted fact. It's not even really disputed.

Regardless of anything else, if no one will accept your money for goods and services it essentially has no value. It's not backed by gold, silver, securities, etc.

In modern society money only has value because we collectively believe it does. It's just paper... on loan from the Federal Reserve with interest. Even a freshly printed dollar bill already represents debt. What do you think income tax pays for, infrastructure? Roads? Our military? That would be nice, but truthfully most of what your tax dollars do is pay the interest on the loans from the Federal Reserve......

So again I'm speaking on a macro level, this has nothing to do with individual people earning a wage, and it most certainly has nothing to do with ability/inability to pay my way through life. There was a point in my life when I was homeless, so anyone even vaguely implying that I am/was a trust fund kid is pretty insulting.

No hard feelings though dude, if you want to discuss further I'm cool with that.

You are either owed, or you are owing. The distribution of wealth shows this, the "pyramid" of earning brackets and constituent population figures show the distribution between the "rich" and the "poor" - the top of the pyramid occupied by the wealthy elites.

When our productivity is siphoned through useless and wasteful spending, it goes straight to the corporations running all of which we spend it on - alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, etc. - we remain stuck in our little "pens" like battery chickens purchasing short-lasting and useless consumer items.

If we live without consumer-addictions, we are able to save and acquire productive assets and property, and start to be "owed".

Obviously "they" would not want this to happen, and they continue to keep us indulged.

a reply to: sacgamer25

I've said it before..even made a thread about the idea a while back.

Reset the economy, erase the debt.

What a most interesting thread, I just cannot see any nation of private persons deciding to stop paying tax, when one buys most things, tax is already part of the price, wages are taxed before you get it, self employed people will pay tax or go to jail,
those nameless sons of nameless fathers who control everything can outthink the guy in the street, otherwise 'they' would not be as rich as they are.

originally posted by: Osiris1953
$223 Trillion of worthless paper. Money no longer has any value beyond general faith in its acceptability.

How is faith working for religion these day?

a reply to: pikestaff

Strictly speaking, the elites cannot out think themselves out of a wet paper bag....they do however employ armies of very clever and very mercenary psychologists, marketing strategists, MSM mouthpieces and behaviourists to out think the rest of us.

If it were truly down to what the elites can do better than the rest of us, it would be in terms of their inhumanity and lack of feelings of guilt associated with that inhumanity...commonly and currently called sociopathic disorder, although they would prefer to call it 'ruthlessness' or 'cut-throat' business acumen.

They're great at that, that is how they became rich enough to employ their armies of out thinkers in the first place.

Oh, the other thing they have going for them that we do not, is they tend to stick together and combine their inhumanity, whereas we are very easily divided.

Relax its just numbers in a computer. Means nothing. Means they called it debt instead of printing more. Debt is just another thing they you to scare you on election day. What you think China can put US in jail or something? You think Fed Reserve will put US in jail? It's just a system to manage the economy and keep dollar value up. Greece seem to be doing just fine after their economy reset.

a reply to: sacgamer25

keep up the good fight

With the end of QE it should get REAL interesting in the months to come.

It's a bit early so I may have missed the mention, but I didn't see anyone here bring up this thing called "Fractional reserve banking"
This video is pretty dry, but gives a decent explanation. I feel the need to point it out. All of you seem to realize that the US dollar is a scam, but I'm not sure how many of you appreciate just how bad it is.
Fractional reserve lending- basically adds a factor of ten to how silly this whole thing is.
www.youtube.com...

I've posted this one before, but the thread was removed:
www.youtube.com...
If you want to know how money came to be, this is a pretty good primer- and it's laid out for kids, so its easy to understand.

"The Fed" is just the US branch of this nonsense. The US was formed by a band of people trying to escape the slavery of the "red bank" across the pond.
Bank of England.
Bank of Canada.
Federal Reserve.

en.wikipedia.org...

These are all PRIVATELY owned banks, none of them answer to their respective countries governments.

It's all the same nonsense.
Which president was it that went and outlawed owning gold, and forced everyone under penalty of fines and jailtime to sell it to the US Government at $20 an ounce, and then a year later turned around, repealed the law, and told everyone to hurry up and buy it back at $35?

The IRS works for a corporation, not out government. They take our wages to pay back debt on currency that our government borrows to pay the bills.
Back when dollars were backed by gold, this made sense for the central banks- they made fake money, the government backed it- they charged interest on fake money and accumulated all of the gold (Locked up in some pretty impressive bunkers, now)
Now these private organizations have all the gold... and we have the US Dollar.

The fed has been lending money to the banks and the government at something like 0% for about five years now. Their rate of inflation aimed to pull 1% of the wealth out of this country every year- since 1913 when they were founded. In 2013, exactly 100 years later, the government almost didn't open their doors because they ran out of money.

They have their gold from every major country. Their plan was brilliant- but now that they have all the gold they happen to control all of the currency, too. They control every country. The only logical conclusion is that they'll aim to take over and get the whole population thing under control before we exhaust all natural resources and go extinct- this forming the new world order.

Anyone seen this?
en.wikipedia.org...
Built within a decade of the gold standard being eliminated in the worlds biggest currency.

*taps on the mic* Is this thing on?

If we do what Iceland did and make those a holes responsible and forget the debt, their NWO would fall apart.

IMO the powers that be would not want this to happen ever. If everyone forgot their debt, mankind's technological prowess would leap forward more in 10 years than the past 1000 years of history.

Debt keeps the ball spinning so to speak. As long as one country has leverage over another, it'll be a fixture in our lives.

Until 2016

That's the year that if anything happens, it will happen then and there.

And I know for sure that my current/ex military comrades will make something happen regardless of what the rest of the world does.
I couldn't stop them if I wanted to.

They're everywhere, you know. Veterans. They make your food, drive your bus, clean up your trash, they go to 9-5s, and they live and function at every level of society. And quite a few of them are willing to use their skills against their oppressors. Skills like infiltration, espionage, counter government operations, creating insurgencies, and best of all, how to use a weapon properly.

By 2017, the US government and it's friends will know what it's like to be treated like second class citizens

a reply to: thisguy27

Congrats, you have just made it to the NSA hot-list.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I've been there so long my ass is made of asbestos buddy

Money MUST be a depreciable asset else there is far less incentive to invest, to build something that produces more money. Yes the money is owned to the central bank. Do you want to know to whom all that debt is owned? To whoever buys treasuries. The Saudis of course (part of the petrodollar deal fixed by tricky Dick probably the most significant fiscal contribution made by a president in the history of the states) China keeps buying a lot etc. . The debt of America towards the federal reserve keeps ballooning because of the petrodollar.

Each dollar is issued at interest, the world needs dollars to buy oil, so by trade and on the foreign exchange the world gets dollars, which each come with debt. Debt is an incentive for growth. A monetary system that provides growth by in itself (gold bitcoins) leads to hoarding in expectation of appreciation of the currency.

Still over 200 Trilion? who are we in debt to, what alien species was willing to lend us that much???

a reply to: swanne

Every country is sure making a whole lots of them. When you build something, you tend to use it. Look at it from the zero waste greedy bastard point of view.