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ISIS needs to be exterminated on sight!
page: 6share:
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I view it as bigoted behaviour from people coming to the UK who don't integrate and run shut off areas yet love to grab every penny of benefit they can get their hands on. That's bigoted in my view. I also don't believe that you can mix muslim and other cultures without trouble. Look at India where yhou have every religion represented and left to enjoy their beliefs - but which group always causes trouble there?
I view it as bigoted behaviour from people coming to the UK who don't integrate and run shut off areas yet love to grab every penny of benefit they can get their hands on. That's bigoted in my view. I also don't believe that you can mix muslim and other cultures without trouble. Look at India where yhou have every religion represented and left to enjoy their beliefs - but which group always causes trouble there?
a reply to: Shiloh7
So your answer to bigoted activity is to be bigoted back to them? I'm sure that is going to get you places... I happen to work with a bunch of muslims and none of them give me any problems. They are all nice people and allow for my beliefs as an agnostic, don't antagonize me about drinking or doing anything else their religion disagrees with, and treat everyone here with respect.
So your answer to bigoted activity is to be bigoted back to them? I'm sure that is going to get you places... I happen to work with a bunch of muslims and none of them give me any problems. They are all nice people and allow for my beliefs as an agnostic, don't antagonize me about drinking or doing anything else their religion disagrees with, and treat everyone here with respect.
a reply to: boymonkey74
We have a somewhat cosmopolitan family spread over the UK and abroad with the Muslim side mainly in Luton. Sure they came over during the 1950's and say the same thing. They are integrated but they are Shia. But even they feel there is a huge difference to the immigrants we have been taking over the last 20 odd years.
I do feel in all honesty that you cannot integrate people with rigid religious views as they only want you to worship as they tell you. There is no middle ground and its the idea of spreading Islam so we can all enjoy it that is something I don't wan t to know as now we have moved to the killing of Christians, Jews and any non muslims and some of this is being done by British Muslims, some already back in this country. How soon do you think it will be before they start up over here gorilla fashion?
We have a somewhat cosmopolitan family spread over the UK and abroad with the Muslim side mainly in Luton. Sure they came over during the 1950's and say the same thing. They are integrated but they are Shia. But even they feel there is a huge difference to the immigrants we have been taking over the last 20 odd years.
I do feel in all honesty that you cannot integrate people with rigid religious views as they only want you to worship as they tell you. There is no middle ground and its the idea of spreading Islam so we can all enjoy it that is something I don't wan t to know as now we have moved to the killing of Christians, Jews and any non muslims and some of this is being done by British Muslims, some already back in this country. How soon do you think it will be before they start up over here gorilla fashion?
a reply to: Krazysh0t
You sound as though you feel you should be grateful, but what you are explaining is good manners - which we all should exhibit to each other.
What I so often hear on the tv etc is the apologist for muslims who say "Ooh! that's not Islam, but unfortunately it is according to other muslims.
Christianity use to be lethal for your health but we left these arguments well in the past, its like having them regurgitated. I'm pagan by belief and "do as you would be done by" has always worked for me, along with good manners even with clenched teeth..
You sound as though you feel you should be grateful, but what you are explaining is good manners - which we all should exhibit to each other.
What I so often hear on the tv etc is the apologist for muslims who say "Ooh! that's not Islam, but unfortunately it is according to other muslims.
Christianity use to be lethal for your health but we left these arguments well in the past, its like having them regurgitated. I'm pagan by belief and "do as you would be done by" has always worked for me, along with good manners even with clenched teeth..
a reply to: Shiloh7
Why should I feel grateful? Because I happen to work with a bunch of people who act like any other person and some of them just happen to be muslim? That's stupid.
Yes Muslim fundamentalists are still technically muslims, just like Christian fundamentalists are still Christians. But hey, while we are on the subject about fundamentalism, if we didn't have the laws on the books that we do in the US, what do you think this guy would be doing to homosexuals?
TN pastor vows not to ‘repent’ for homophobia: God says gays ‘must be put to death’
So don't pretend like Christians have left their hate in the past. If the US became a third world country tomorrow, you can expect a Christian version of ISIS to appear (probably from the bible belt) eventually. You just don't want to give muslims a chance.
Why should I feel grateful? Because I happen to work with a bunch of people who act like any other person and some of them just happen to be muslim? That's stupid.
Yes Muslim fundamentalists are still technically muslims, just like Christian fundamentalists are still Christians. But hey, while we are on the subject about fundamentalism, if we didn't have the laws on the books that we do in the US, what do you think this guy would be doing to homosexuals?
TN pastor vows not to ‘repent’ for homophobia: God says gays ‘must be put to death’
So don't pretend like Christians have left their hate in the past. If the US became a third world country tomorrow, you can expect a Christian version of ISIS to appear (probably from the bible belt) eventually. You just don't want to give muslims a chance.
To OP I think how the USA and England are chosing to deal with the Isis and isil is going to be quiet and covert much like the usa and england have
been dealing with national security issues over the last 60 some-odd years through means of special forces (navy seals and army delta/special forces)
and english SAS and the intelligence community(CIA and Mi5 and Mi6). Very hush hush stuff. But trust me when I say that that isis and isil members
will meet their demise in due time. Its just we the public won't hear about it.
- 'Mericuh!
- 'Mericuh!
a reply to: Krazysh0t
You've brought up a single dodge pot of a poison preacher which OK so he's here today with a personal hatred for homosexuals, but can't answer the question that God created us all which he wants you to believe. Anyone with common sense knows he is a dodge pot.
You are happy to trust muslims, I am not because when the chips are they will most likely side with other muslims. Do you honestly think that your muslim friends wouldn't rejoice were you to be converted? Also how do you think those that have managed to creap back into the USA and UK are behaving - like your friend most likely to cover their tracks?
You've brought up a single dodge pot of a poison preacher which OK so he's here today with a personal hatred for homosexuals, but can't answer the question that God created us all which he wants you to believe. Anyone with common sense knows he is a dodge pot.
You are happy to trust muslims, I am not because when the chips are they will most likely side with other muslims. Do you honestly think that your muslim friends wouldn't rejoice were you to be converted? Also how do you think those that have managed to creap back into the USA and UK are behaving - like your friend most likely to cover their tracks?
a reply to: beezzer
I wish I had an answer.
Given how much they hate each other, and outsiders... Your guess is as good as mine, maybe better.
One thing I do know...
We can't become them in order to defeat them. Which takes care of the carpet bombing them, or tactical nukes.
I wish I had an answer.
Given how much they hate each other, and outsiders... Your guess is as good as mine, maybe better.
One thing I do know...
We can't become them in order to defeat them. Which takes care of the carpet bombing them, or tactical nukes.
a reply to: Shiloh7
That was one example. You and I both know I could easily dig up more examples of this same intolerance. Westboro baptist church for instance. The point is, that no religion is safe from the lunatics who want to hate and persecute because of some crazy interpretation they came up with from their religious myth book. But to lump them all on the same level as the crazies is bigoted and that is the facts.
Trust? Who said anything about trust? I just don't blindly hate them because of the actions of a few. Of course they would rejoice if I converted. I'm sure my Christian friends would rejoice if I converted back to Christianity. The idea of religion is to have as many converts to your cause, so celebration of a new convert is to be expected. What is your point there?
That was one example. You and I both know I could easily dig up more examples of this same intolerance. Westboro baptist church for instance. The point is, that no religion is safe from the lunatics who want to hate and persecute because of some crazy interpretation they came up with from their religious myth book. But to lump them all on the same level as the crazies is bigoted and that is the facts.
Trust? Who said anything about trust? I just don't blindly hate them because of the actions of a few. Of course they would rejoice if I converted. I'm sure my Christian friends would rejoice if I converted back to Christianity. The idea of religion is to have as many converts to your cause, so celebration of a new convert is to be expected. What is your point there?
originally posted by: beezzer
Then how do you win?
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
If I may borrow a phrase, the only way to win is to not play. Go back to Powell's Pottery barn reference. If you engage, you've already lost. Then again, maybe my definition of 'win' is different.
For purposes of this scenario (IMO) you either build a coalition of stakeholders in the region and let them do the heavy lifting, or you stay the hell out of it. Given what's already occurred, I think that means we stay the hell out of it unless or until our well being is directly impacted.
We've already lost way too much in Fallujah, Mosul, Tikrit etc and what appears now to be for no apparent reason. This is Moslem slaughtering Moslem and they've been doing this sort of tribal warfare for centuries. There's no external fix for that. No win.
What we need to NOT do is employ any half-assed measures and that's what we typically do. We do it domestically. Pass laws that aren't enforced. Appease for political purposes.
If you're going to war, then go to defeat the enemy. Do we have the national will, the heart to do that? Don't stand under a hornet's nest at mid day with a squirt gun and waving a stick. Wait until they're all in there and soak it with something lethal.
There is no compromise to be made with people who don't want the same things you do.
If it's not worth doing what it takes, then it isn't worth starting. We want it both ways. We want the bad guys to stop without having to hurt anyone especially when the casualties are ours. Everybody is on board with stopping the threat, until the flag draped coffins start coming home.
There are no good answers, only a choice among various bads and worses. Nobody wants to hear or believe that, and whoever's looking to the current crop of contemptible, incompetent DC chuckleheads to provide any sort of honest assessment is seriously deluded.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: SLAYER69
You do not win wars on terrorism by exterminating people. You win wars on terrorism by understand and talking. All the might of the Bristish forces could not win with the IRA. Peace came only after hard talks..
The peace with the IRA came about after the 14th int detachment (known as the Det) had infiltrated and destroyed the core of the IRA to such an extent that it would have taken years to rebuild the organisation, if it were possible at all.
The "peace talks" were a sop to the political leadership of the IRA, and were meant to make it look to the public that they still posed a threat.
They didn't pose anywhere near the threat they had a few short years before.
The political process was something of a joke, and although protracted, there was never any danger of the IRA re-arming, because they quite simply no longer had the numbers.
This can quite easily be seen in how ineffective the breakaway group "The Real IRA" was.
A couple of half arsed attempts at bombs which they couldn't get to explode.
The major difficulty was the Protestant side: they wanted to make it known that the IRA had been thoroughly, comprehensively defeated, but political expedience ensured this could not be done.
a reply to: Krazysh0t
My point is that I do not believe I could trust a muslim to be on the side of the West as opposed to a side made of people following the muslim cause which, although not shouted about by many, is the cause of converting the world to Islam.
Islam is one of the most indoctrinated faiths in the world, especially for the men who get a dosage every Friday down mosque. Whilst many have hastily bid a fast retreat as soon as they could think for themselves or found that prayer doesn't get you what you ask for from any religion, there is a huge proportion of people who happily choose religion and feel it has a place in their lives eg their lives not their neighbours.
When one leaves a mosque the words of the imman are firmly in your mind go share your religion and bring others to it for their benefit.
What should be starting to make you wonder is the number of men from the West, born and bred there who have gone to fight for ISIS and behaved in the most depraved manner possible and then slunk back and are currently smiling to your face to cover their tracks and not make you suspicious of them.
My point is that I do not believe I could trust a muslim to be on the side of the West as opposed to a side made of people following the muslim cause which, although not shouted about by many, is the cause of converting the world to Islam.
Islam is one of the most indoctrinated faiths in the world, especially for the men who get a dosage every Friday down mosque. Whilst many have hastily bid a fast retreat as soon as they could think for themselves or found that prayer doesn't get you what you ask for from any religion, there is a huge proportion of people who happily choose religion and feel it has a place in their lives eg their lives not their neighbours.
When one leaves a mosque the words of the imman are firmly in your mind go share your religion and bring others to it for their benefit.
What should be starting to make you wonder is the number of men from the West, born and bred there who have gone to fight for ISIS and behaved in the most depraved manner possible and then slunk back and are currently smiling to your face to cover their tracks and not make you suspicious of them.
originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: judydawg
Agree with you but what goes through my mind concerning foreign aid - if I am right and I bet I am is - its targeted as a means for corporations to get into a country (using tax payer's money) so they can grab that country's resources - that's why there is no way politicians will ever cut it.
I agree. First thing I would also do is cut corporate tax rates and beg them to move back to America. Let all them over there substain themselves. Americans will stick together cut back, adapt and overcome.
I am sitting here right now on so much copper they have no idea how much and whatever else comes with that and the EPA shut them down years ago. So what do they do take it down and move every peice to South America isn't that the same air? WTH
I realy dont care what they do to each other in the ME, I care about our audacity's that happen right here in America every day.
This is all so smiple, morals and greed have taken us down the garden path.
a reply to: yeahright
a reply to: seagull
Thank you both for your replies.
This ISIS-Crisis, while being valid, is very much media driven. Now that, in my humble, doesn't take away from the nature of ISIS or their actions, but I feel that the response will be taken to assuage the media and not actually solve the problem.
They'll utilize a solution that'll look good on the news, will sound good for the reporters, but won't make a lasting difference for the people.
a reply to: seagull
Thank you both for your replies.
This ISIS-Crisis, while being valid, is very much media driven. Now that, in my humble, doesn't take away from the nature of ISIS or their actions, but I feel that the response will be taken to assuage the media and not actually solve the problem.
They'll utilize a solution that'll look good on the news, will sound good for the reporters, but won't make a lasting difference for the people.
a reply to: beezzer
Another solution is the west created the real life version of 'Gi Joe' or 'Sheild'.
Whose sole purpose is to fight terrorism.
Internationally sanctioned. Internationally controlled.
The best and brightest, and the best fighters take them head on.
No bullsnip American politics to get in the way.
No bullsnip politics from any other country.
What is painfully obvious is the last decade of American, and other western powers approach has not been working.
Another solution is the west created the real life version of 'Gi Joe' or 'Sheild'.
Whose sole purpose is to fight terrorism.
Internationally sanctioned. Internationally controlled.
The best and brightest, and the best fighters take them head on.
No bullsnip American politics to get in the way.
No bullsnip politics from any other country.
What is painfully obvious is the last decade of American, and other western powers approach has not been working.
originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: beezzer
Another solution is the west created the real life version of 'Gi Joe' or 'Sheild'.
Whose sole purpose is to fight terrorism.
Internationally sanctioned. Internationally controlled.
The best and brightest, and the best fighters take them head on.
No bullsnip American politics to get in the way.
No bullsnip politics from any other country.
What is painfully obvious is the last decade of American, and other western powers approach has not been working.
In other words Team America
originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Krazysh0t
My point is that I do not believe I could trust a muslim to be on the side of the West as opposed to a side made of people following the muslim cause which, although not shouted about by many, is the cause of converting the world to Islam.
Who cares? The first world has freedom of religion. If a muslim tries any forced conversion or tries to inhibit someone else's religious practice here in the first world, he'll go to jail or face prosecution for it. Muslims have been living in the first world for a while now and I don't see any mass converts of people of non-middle eastern descent. There was the Black Panthers (and various black rights groups) in the 70's, but it's not like droves of people of European descent are leaving christainity, atheism, or whatever they believe to go be muslim. This is all just fearmongering.
Islam is one of the most indoctrinated faiths in the world, especially for the men who get a dosage every Friday down mosque. Whilst many have hastily bid a fast retreat as soon as they could think for themselves or found that prayer doesn't get you what you ask for from any religion, there is a huge proportion of people who happily choose religion and feel it has a place in their lives eg their lives not their neighbours.
When one leaves a mosque the words of the imman are firmly in your mind go share your religion and bring others to it for their benefit.
HAHAHAHA! I'd say the same thing about Christianity. Ever meet a Jehovah's Witness? They certainly like to "go share their religion and bring others to it for their benefit". Seriously, you are using a double standard here. All organized religions are the same. They are ALL poisonous to societal development and should ALL be discarded. The only religion you should practice should be completely personal.
What should be starting to make you wonder is the number of men from the West, born and bred there who have gone to fight for ISIS and behaved in the most depraved manner possible and then slunk back and are currently smiling to your face to cover their tracks and not make you suspicious of them.
Should it? It's not like bad people, who aren't muslim, don't do that already to my face for all sorts of reasons when they try to con me out of money, are secretly serial killers, are dangerous drug dealers, etc. But because they are part of a greater religion, all of a sudden that means their actions are indicative of the whole religion they belong to. Man you are a SEVERE causality of the media's fearmongering campaign.
If you were alive in the 1940's and lived in the US, I wonder what you'd feel about anyone who was Japanese... I guess we were justified in interning all those Japanese-Americans because they were all secretly helping their home country win a war. Because you are literally using the same arguments that the US used back then. It's called dehumanization and you should feel ashamed that you are using it right now.
edit on 4-9-2014 by
Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: crazyewok
In other words Team America
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Not if it's internationally based and controlled. Although if the US is involved, that'll be the perception. And honestly, probably the reality if it was to have any effect at all. Again, a no-win.
Somebody has to be the ramrod if there's any chance for effectiveness. And that's typically going to be the one with the biggest stake and investment.
Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.
Today the consensus seems to be that the US is a bullying meddler. I'm ok with our pulling way, way back and seeing how that goes.
Isolationist? Maybe. Let the multinational corporations handle their own security to protect their interests. I'm ok with our keeping the shipping lanes open and the skies safe and beyond that, y'all handle your own messes.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
originally posted by: crazyewok
originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: beezzer
Another solution is the west created the real life version of 'Gi Joe' or 'Sheild'.
Whose sole purpose is to fight terrorism.
Internationally sanctioned. Internationally controlled.
The best and brightest, and the best fighters take them head on.
No bullsnip American politics to get in the way.
No bullsnip politics from any other country.
What is painfully obvious is the last decade of American, and other western powers approach has not been working.
In other words Team America
More like Rainbow 6.
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