Back up your claims with links not just your opinion.

a reply to: theMediator

Applause..2

Very VERY well said!

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: DarknStormy

As you know. I've made the same mistake myself. I try to prefix a point as an opinion when it's appropriate.

Bro, I don't know whether you have made mistakes because I do not focus on that aspect.. Everyone makes mistakes here and there, even people who believe they never do. What I love more than anything else is when a person can admit their errors.. I've had to do it but I give credit to the person who shot me down and I then hold them in high regard also for doing that and educating me at the same time..

Your view of it is correct. Modified with the apparent IQ of the person one is dealing with, the respect level, the importance one views the subject, whether the individual is agenda driven and, of course, the time involved with your 'clarification'.

If you want to put a great viewpoint across backing it up does go along way.. The rest you sort of have to take as it comes along, you don't know who your going to be lined up against lol.

As you are one of those I hold in higher esteem than most, I would make the effort. Others? On an individual basis, I suppose.

Many do make the effort but others sort of storm in with accusations and then when they are called out are either never heard of again or turn the conversation into WW3.. Those people need to take a good look at themselves, sort of back it up or back up comes to mind.

Off the top, I'd view ATS as closer to conversation than correspondence, generally. Yet, I would treat it as perhaps a barbershop discussion or a lounge get together.

That's what it is.. The reason why I participate here is because I cannot stand the Herd mentality crap of social media.. Though you get a few renegades, they are quickly weaseled out lol.. The conversation here is more meaningful in most cases then not, I believe that anyway.

The only modifier to that would be the potential viewers of the post and how important one feels it is to ensure a solid basis for your point.

Courtesy is also a factor.

It depends on the topic I guess, some things need to be verified, others don't... But courtesy and not degrading people because they may have a different point of view is critical. No-one is all knowing and no-one should act like they are better than anyone either. We are all in the same boat dealing with the same bs when it comes down to it.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
a reply to: boymonkey74

I agree with you.

I hate it when some people demand links & the response back is "look it up yourself, I'm not doing the research for you" & then they turn around & demand links.

I made a thread recently & people would only say it was false & not provide any informational links to back their claims. Apparently word of mouth counts as proof these days for some ATS members. When I called them out on it, they said that my article wasn't valid therefore they didn't need to provide any proof. ((Again, all word of mouth claims that it was invalid)) It drove me batty so I just stopped going to that thread.

I agree as well. My memory might be a bit off, and/or I just don't lurk here much anymore, but I remember when there were very well thought out threads presented here that obviously took a long time to research and present. I remember many people if not most backing up their statements with links and facts. I remember being extremely impressed with that. I'm not saying this doesn't happen anymore, but I don't see it much anymore (at least on the front page). Then again like I said, I don't visit much anymore.

I've wanted to say something like OP for a while now.

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: boymonkey74
I really wish people would back up certain claims they make on ATS.
I have asked a member twice today to back his claims up with links etc and twice he has told me to use a search engine.....No I want to see YOUR links and not just a you tube video made by some nut.
So NO If you make a claim it is your job not mine to back those claims up.
It really grinds my gears when members do this.
Anyhow I hope people understand my rant.
Rant over carry on.

If you don't believe the claims, it's your duty to find information about it.
The poster believes those claims, he probably even has first hand experience with the subject. Must he absolutely find someone else on the internet, with the same OPINION, that took the time to create a web page for his claims to stand?

No.

Why would I find other people with the same opinion than mine for it to stand? I don't need others to tell me whats the truth about what I personally experienced.

It's YOUR problem if you don't believe the claims. If the poster doesn't feel like he needs to rely on others web pages to backup his claims, well that's his decision.

Oh and, the reliability of the sources is, from what I see on ATS, totally subjective.

Some claim Wikipedia is good, some spit on it like it like it's all lies
Some will claim that eeeeverything on youtube is bs, when, for all we know, maybe that "tube video made by some nut" is actually the truth.
RT, Natural news, MSNBC, CNN ...some will immediately refuse those sources.

So let's say someone backs up his claim with one of those "subjectively untrusted" source, he will immediately won't believe the claim when maybe, that exact same claim is in one of HIS subjectively trusted source.

So no, I don't feel people NEED to backup their claims with their own source. The poster doesn't need exterior opinions to believe his own claims and he doesn't need to justifiably "prove" his claims because someone out there doesn't believe the material. It's that persons duty to justify the claims because if he already doesn't believe, usually in that case, no one else but himself or his deductions will make him believe.

Just the fact that you would ask, instead of searching by yourself, for particular links that fit your biased opinion making process, clearly shows your lack of interest and your disbelief. Why you the poster waste time on making YOU believe in his claims when others are already joining his discussion?

Just the idea of ASKING for somebody else subjective proof than the poster seems more like a bear trap to me or a psychological manipulation than a real question. If you really want to make yourself believe, it's easy.

Use a search engine, go see the sources that YOU believe and then make your opinion about it.
If you still don't believe, well thank god the poster didn't waste HIS time to make YOU believe.

Must I add more?

You said it well.

At my age a lot of "facts" accumulate, especially since I taught in major universities.

When people ask for links, I get frustrated because then I do a cursory google to try and find supporting ideas from reputable sources.

I think I'll quote you from now on,

"Don't believe me, look it up for yourself."

If they flame me for it, tough. I get so tired of looking up the same old links for people thread after thread after thread.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Then you will be ignored and not taken seriously.
I don't really care where your fact checking comes from as longas we can check it.
It is like a scientists saying "we have found unlimited energy" and not backing up his claim with facts;.

a reply to: boymonkey74

It also helps us learn new stuff.
I have learnt loads due to ats and the links people leave in their threads.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I certainly wouldn't "ignore" him. If his point intrigues or brings a rebuttal to mind, I'd respond.

Some may view it as a debate society or some such but ignoring him based on your criteria may just get you ignored right back..

He may be ignored by you, as you say, but he will not be by many others...

I'd like you to cite a source, peer-reviewed, in a triple-blind human study, taking into account the possibility of a multiverse, on why links are necessary.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Right, cuz a link to something on the internet means it must be true, LOL

What are we going to do? Make everyone use academic sources and cite in text?

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: boymonkey74

Right, cuz a link to something on the internet means it must be true, LOL

What are we going to do? Make everyone use academic sources and cite in text?

Obviously there are times when it's not neccessary. Other times, it's nice to know WHY someone has a certain opinion or thinks something is a fact. Looking up links for others also helps you learn more about your position. There have been times when I thought something was a fact, did a little digging and actually found out I was wrong.

You know, deny ignorance and all that bs.

a reply to: BanTv

I two was going to create a rant about this as well. I just needed to calm down first. I thought giving myself a day would allow me to come up with some really good things to say in my rant.

Gosh, people are lazy. If I say the media is full of propaganda, thats a fact. Everyone knows it. Do your own study.

Even if people link to back their stuff, I search anyway to find corroboration or not, not just depending on a link or twenty. Like I said the western main stream is bogus. You can find a hundred thousand links in .o2 seconds declaring Russia is invading Ukraine.

That don't make it true. In fact thats how I know it isn;t true. Most media disinfo campaigns burn up the airwaves.

One more… I am older, If I say some older bit of info that I learned a long time ago really happened, that might not be readily available on the Internet.

I am not the best at searching, but vet it so others can to confirm it.

Link it yourself, grasshopper.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: boymonkey74

Right, cuz a link to something on the internet means it must be true, LOL

What are we going to do? Make everyone use academic sources and cite in text?

That's my biggest problem. A great deal of my knowledge comes from academic sources that no one has access to on the internet. I absolutely abhor people who demand links because the internet is one of the worst sources. I never accepted them from my students, ever.

originally posted by: systemic.aberration
I'd like you to cite a source, peer-reviewed, in a triple-blind human study, taking into account the possibility of a multiverse, on why links are necessary.

LOL, think I might steal that phrase when some whippersnapper "demands" a "link". Maybe I should first say

I'll give you a source after you can prove me wrong with a peer-reviewed, academically published journal citation, APA style.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Pics or it didn't happen

Love this rant!

It's so easy to add a link and a small quote from a source!

The worst is when the person posting won't provide links and tells/expects others to search for it and post it!!

APA or bust!

Remember folks this is a rant

Obviously sometimes links are not needed but with fantastic claims I like to know where the source of these claim come from.
Known hoaxers are known and some do not realise they are being hoaxed so asking for sources/links helps us all.

a reply to: Lysergic

APA?

a reply to: Lysergic

Any link/source will do. Like I said it helps us all understand where the information is coming from.

a reply to: boymonkey74

What about people that have first hand knowledge or intel which is not on the internet with a handy dandy link?

It happens you know. Not everything is second hand knowledge from Google.

-edit-

I should have read the other replies first. I agree with "theMediator"...