Am I The Only One That Ever Feels Torn?

Am I the only one that ever feels or stays torn?

Opinions, sarcasm, attitude, etc. are all extremely hard to convey to others just using the written word. There is no eye contact or facial expression to help you to distinguish what some are really thinking and feeling about a certain situation, act, or product. So it may just appear that I struggle with some things and not many more do. Maybe they are and it just doesn't come across, so I figured I would ask.

Every other thread any of us click on seems to have folks that are hardcore stuck to one side/opinion than the other. Whereas I can read a thread, cheer for a minute, be angry for a minute, and maybe even laugh for a minute. It's a rollercoaster to be sure, and logically I know that I can't possibly be on a solo ride on that coaster.

I am so against the taking of another life that I am sure many probably think something is wrong with me. Yet when cases of child molestation and the like come up... I struggle really hard with the emotions it brings. Within 30 seconds of reading it, I have all but wished the pedophile dead 1,000 times over and then I feel guilty afterwards for those thoughts.

I am one of the ones who will be forever thankful that I will never be in charge of deciding when someone's life is over, pull the switch, and go to bed that evening with a clear conscience.

Another example is wanting the US to minds it's own business and let the chips fall where they may. But apparently that doesn't work as well as it does in my brain when I think about it logically. An example is ISIS. We left them alone and now they are running rampant.

That isn't the topic of the thread though and I don't want to argue who is right and who is wrong. I just want to know if I am alone in feeling torn in issues like that.

There is no greater crime out there IMO than pedophilia. As against death as I am, my first thought truthfully is that they should never be allowed to draw another breath on this earth. He shouldn't sit in jail and enjoy cable, air conditioning, etc. when people work hard every day for those things and still struggle. I think that they should never see another sun set in the sky when there is 100% that they committed their crimes.

Then I turn around and feel guilty for for feeling somewhat bloodthirsty at the heinous acts they committed against the most helpless among us. No pity for his crimes. If you get anything from this thread at all, I hope you understand how I feel about pedophiles and the crimes they commit.

I see people getting their throat slit, others being killed for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time and I get a little pissed that the guilty party's will 99% of the time live with 3 hots and a cot, free healthcare, dental care, etc. until their dying day, when we have elderly people eating dog food because they can't afford their medications and food at the same time.

And again... I feel guilty on some level for thinking that way.

I wouldn't say that I am talking a different game than I would walk, I am just saying that even though I disagree with murder, I catch myself condoning it in certain situations. I don't want to. I try not to... yet here we are.

I don't relish the thought of anyone getting beat down in the street, but then I see the missing 1:45 seconds of videos that was recorded before the beating happened.... And I catch myself thinking that they got exactly what they deserved. Again I am left feeling guilty because an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I'm not sure if my views are something I hold on to in hopes of not letting any animalistic tendencies come through, that maybe I want to be better than the animals who do those crimes. I don't know. I would like to think it is the latter. But these thoughts come unwarranted. I actually try to not think like that, but it intrudes nonetheless in certain situations.

So my rant is that one of confusion. Do any of you wrestle with these emotions or is retribution something that just never crosses your mind regardless of the atrocities involved??

I suppose I just don't want to keep feeling like there is something wrong with me for this. I do feel it is probably normal but nobody ever wants to admit it for fear of being called sympathetic to pedophiles/hardened criminals.

So ATS... I am asking you to either let me know if it's normal or if you feel it too??

Help a Kanga out? Anyone... Bueller??

Kanga, I haven't really ever interacted with you yet but I want to answer your question with a bit of personal flair. I am a guy who has lived his short 35 years subject to massive anxiety over what people think about me and more importantly my opinions. I am for lack of a better term, a very progressive person. I believe that all people deserve a chance and even a second one. But I will say that many, many moments pass each day where I read something heinous and realize that the criminal, if found guilty, will not have a better life than I, but will have more stability than the poor and the elderly and the veterans and the disabled.

So no, you are absolutely not the only torn person in this world. In fact, I would rate you as healthier and more sane than most others simply because you don't espouse an extreme that blankets all situations. It is perfectly 100% reasonable to think a convicted and truly guilty rapist or pedophile should be put to death. It's also perfectly reasonable to think that the same person should be given a chance to be reformed. But it's MUCH more reasonable still to be the person who exists, not in the middle, but also not in a uni-polar spectrum. You have demonstrated that you have integrative thought. Even if you come up with an answer that is one extreme or another, you've shown yourself to be a thinker who doesn't fall back on the safety of extremes without any consideration of the other side.

Yes I and probably millions of others suffer this human condition of thought. It helps us make rational and sound decisions.

You say "Help a Kanga out"

I say "well done Kanga"

Now go have a beer...(if you're old enough to have one...if not, Capri Sun is AWESOME) because you've earned it for being a rational thinker

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Bet you didn't expect I'd be the first to reply
EDIT: Well I was almost first

First I'd like to clear the air about our last encounter. I entirely misunderstood your wording for that adage and believed you to be against it, rather then for it. I'd like to apologize for that.

Secondly, I think we all battle with our emotions. We wouldn't be human if what we considered "crimes against humanity" weren't met with swift justice (vengeance). I believe a good percentage of our existence is spent dealing with those emotions, trying to figure out what is "right" or "moral". I, personally, think that this world would benefit from depopulation. But then again my spiritual side tells me that every evil serves a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Then again some actions I believe are so unforgivable that that person should never have been given life in the first place. It's a constant battle for perspective. Will we ever have the right perspective? I don't know.

Lastly, I completely agree with you on language. I hate speaking words that are so easily taken out of context, implied, and assumed. We all have our own way of speaking and often times it doesn't come across as we like, especially my latest encounter with you. Truly a facepalm moment for me.

At the end of the day, we're all human and subject to errant behavior. The key is being able to laugh about it and respect one another even after a heated disagreement
I really hope we can both agree on that.

Yeah it is messed up. Most people are not here for info. Just to propagate and support their views. It is natural most people are that way. Sad yes. When i talk to friends they don't want opinions either. If you give yours and it differs they claim you are arguing even though they asked. What ever happened to discussion and debate? If i debate anything anymore with friends i hear their side. Give my opinion and if it differs they get mad and say why am i arguing? I Say whats wrong? Explain to me why you think you are right and why you are mad. I don't want to talk about it they say, even if they brought it up??????? They only want to talk and be agreed with. Much like a spouse after work complaining about something at work ect..

I find it so hard to find a good conversation anymore. Internet is my outlet. I just wish this site and some others would notify you if you had responses to your comments. Then link you to the spot.

a reply to: KyoZero

Unfortunately I have been able to drink for almost as many years as not. Or maybe that would be fortunately, because if not... I would have to be dead. So there is that.

I really appreciate your input. If you are the only own that comes out and admits it, that still makes me feel better about it. Nobody wants to be the lone "nut".

You seem like you have a pretty level head as well, so I do thank you for taking the time to reply.

It's a strange thing sometimes and it often leaves you feeling like you are in some kind of cosmic tug of war. I guess we can all only hope that we do things in a way that we can sleep with that night. There's not a lot of room for screwing up if you follow that mantra I think (that is unless you are insane and can sleep after doing anything).

Thanks again.

originally posted by: Aedaeum
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Bet you didn't expect I'd be the first to reply

EDIT: Well I was almost first

First I'd like to clear the air about our last encounter. I entirely misunderstood your wording for that adage and believed you to be against it, rather then for it. I'd like to apologize for that.

Secondly, I think we all battle with our emotions. We wouldn't be human if what we considered "crimes against humanity" weren't met with swift justice (vengeance). I believe a good percentage of our existence is spent dealing with those emotions, trying to figure out what is "right" or "moral". I, personally, think that this world would benefit from depopulation. But then again my spiritual side tells me that every evil serves a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Then again some actions I believe are so unforgivable that that person should never have been given life in the first place. It's a constant battle for perspective. Will we ever have the right perspective? I don't know.

Lastly, I completely agree with you on language. I hate speaking words that are so easily taken out of context, implied, and assumed. We all have our own way of speaking and often times it doesn't come across as we like, especially my latest encounter with you. Truly a facepalm moment for me.

At the end of the day, we're all human and subject to errant behavior. The key is being able to laugh about it and respect one another even after a heated disagreement

I really hope we can both agree on that.

It's forgotten from one thread to the next Aedaeum. Seriously. I've done that more times than i can count and still do it on occasion. I thank you for commenting. On the net is is too hard to tell what people are really thinking and feeling because you don't know them. I know the emoticons were made for that, but they fail as well at time.

All we can do is keep trying to do the best we can and hope that's good enough.

a reply to: roth1

I know exactly what you mean. If you go up to the top of that little floating bar here and click on the "speech bubbles" it will take you to see a list of people that have replied to you there with a link to their post/thread included. It took me a few years to realize it and use it correctly. It's kind of hidden if you don't know what to look for.

Is you can't find it that way, just click on your envelope (that shows if you have a U2U) and then click the icon that shows two "speech bubbles" and it should pop up for you. Let me know if that doesn't help and I will try again.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

No i think i am along side you when it comes to replying to other member's all i ever want to do is come across as someone who just like's a laugh but my one line quip's may come across as snarky or rude --- but i never mean it

And i never remember anybody who is rude what is the point we all have bad day's at the office

I am so against the taking of another life that I am sure many probably think something is wrong with me. Yet when cases of child molestation and the like come up... I struggle really hard with the emotions it brings. Within 30 seconds of reading it, I have all but wished the pedophile dead 1,000 times over and then I feel guilty afterwards for those thoughts.

I can relate to this for sure. I think it comes from pent up anger or frustration. Not from you, but society as a whole. Division plays a major role in it, that sort of thing makes a society dysfunctional and imbalanced which causes people to feel morally conflicted at times.

That's just my sleep deprived opinion, though, so take it for what it's wort.

originally posted by: kx12x

I am so against the taking of another life that I am sure many probably think something is wrong with me. Yet when cases of child molestation and the like come up... I struggle really hard with the emotions it brings. Within 30 seconds of reading it, I have all but wished the pedophile dead 1,000 times over and then I feel guilty afterwards for those thoughts.

I can relate to this for sure. I think it comes from pent up anger or frustration. Not from you, but society as a whole. Division plays a major role in it, that sort of thing makes a society dysfunctional and imbalanced which causes people to feel morally conflicted at times.

That's just my sleep deprived opinion, though, so take it for what it's wort.

I'll take your sleep deprived opinion because it makes more sense than so many that I have tried to come up with. Those are the opinion I come to ATS for and I thank you for it.

It makes sense for certain.

I'm against taking life in general. Wanton death abhors me. violence inflicted on innocence makes me go to dark places. but death is simply a natural part of life.

We need to eat, so we kill an animal. When it is done humanely, I am thankful to that life. It had no less a right to that life than I have to mine, yet I am the one surviving.

So when it comes to people who inflict abhorrent violence against innocence, I feel that it is almost an obligation to feel that taking that life would benefit that innocence. It is up to the individual to forgive.

I don't mean I want to go out and suffocate pedos and rapists. I do, mind you. But I wont be. Because in this insane world that has been created around us, that would make me a criminal.

I do mean that if that insane world finds a way to suffocate a pedo or rapist, or sadistic murderer, or someone who finds pleasure in torturing animals or other life.. Then I will not feel bad for that loss of life. I will feel better for it's potential victims and sadness at those who suffered before it was rectified.

I am against the death penalty, when there are so many mistakes. But in principal I am not against denying those who would eagerly, or happily, strike their insane desires down on innocent things, their right to live on the same planet as I.

After all, as with the slaying of an animal for me to live, I prefer to be the one who survives. Difference is, I respect the animal that has it's life taken so I can survive. I do not respect the life taken to protect innocence.

There are times it does get confusing online .. especially as english not my native language between translating what read .. then translate reply ..

As to being torn on issues .. it happens at times theres times have to remind myself this is the 21st century not the 17th / 18th century .. especially when it comes to those who commit heinous crimes or harm children as the modern world frowns upon executing criminals for their crimes .. meh they dont even allow duelling in the modern world then wonder why people have no manners .. oops .. rambling a bit .. back to topic ..

Being human its normal to be torn on issues at times .. at such times take a step back .. grab a cuppa tea and carefully think things over evaluating all available information on the matter then decide upon a stand / course of action thats appropriate ..

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

And that is exactly the point to what I believe morality to be. Can you put your head on that pillow knowing you've helped or at the very least, not harmed? But again to your original premise...People have got to stop believing that the extreme is the only acceptable method because whether they (and I) want to believe it or not, there is truth and knowledge in every corner of the cosmos. At least consider it...even if you still come to your own decision...consider it

you do Kanga...and that makes you one of the good ones

You're far from alone, and indecisiveness can be a sign of rational thinking.

People cling to extremes because it is easier. Psychology studies have proven that groups become polarised by the extremist fringe in them, and that extremely polarised believers make the best (most influential) leaders... it is simply easier to spout slogans, direct your hate in a single direction, and follow a group than to walk the fence. It is easier to think of people as enemies than as human beings.

It is easier to hate than to understand.

As for pedophiles, my Disorders professor said something I will never forget... a student inquired why we dont execute them if it is so impossible to treat them. And he responded yes, and we should execute their victims too! The class is horrified of course and he explains that 96% of pedophiles reported being molested when they were children. Its a perpetuating cycle... these poor people suffered immensely and as a defensive block the mind uses 'transference' to impose the feeling of helplessness onto a different poor soul...

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

As you see, you are not alone. I think many of us struggle with our principles... and it almost seems hypocritical. I think a big part of growing up and living in integrity is to figure out where we stand on issues.

A little personal experience here - I was molested repeatedly as a preschool child, again at 12 and then raped at 17. As you can imagine, I had a lot of baggage around that. So, I spent several years in counseling just trying to straighten my brain out.

One of the steps I took to overcome my "damage" was to join a group of women who visited the maximum security prison in Florence, AZ to confront "chronic" child molesters and rapists incarcerated there. It was probably the most valuable and effective experience in my healing.

I entered feeling as you do, that all of them deserved to die (even though that's against my personal beliefs) and I felt rage and hatred toward them. By the time I left, I was feeling completely cleared of any feelings of rage against them. I felt SORRY for them. Not compassion, but PITY. They were pitiful human beings. The way they justified what they had done! Some even blamed the victims! One talked about a three-year-old who had "come onto him". Can you imagine??? What a sick mind! His body was in prison, but so was his mind!

And Ridhya is right. Most were molested as kids. By the time I left, I felt like I had so much MORE than them - like they had been robbed of their lives already. I was so thankful that I was getting the help I needed to break the cycle. I felt so fortunate and more powerful than I have ever felt! I had something that they would never have: Freedom from the "demons" that a child develops when he or she is repeatedly molested. Clearly, their demons were in permanent residence.

I left not caring if they lived or died, which was much better than the rage, anger and wanting them dead. Because they no longer had a hold on me and it just didn't matter anymore.

One think I love about ATS is that it makes me question my own beliefs. I am always questioning and honing my thoughts. And feeling "torn" is part of that, I think.

Good thread!

Sounds like you are just thinking like the civilized should.

I despise paedophiles they are despicable and should be locked away from people.

Terrorists aren't any better and should be kept from people.

There are prisons that are meant to be the civilized solutions but the stories of them being easy rides, free everything including education doesn't seem like punishment though human rights acts ensures basic needs and such, however they didn't show any respect to their victim's human rights so do they deserve it themselves?

Is there an alternative, labour prisons? corporal punishment?

Are those civilized?

How can an extremist be rationalised? Are paedophiles bad to the core and beyond repair? Are psychopaths ever fixable?

Perhaps they are all malfunctioned and need reprogrammed or adjusted via chemicals?

It is an ethical question of which those of sympathetic tendencies can debate though unsure if there is any real answer in the civilized world.

The violent punishments of certain lands are not the answer. We have moved on from there and have evolved more ethical societies built upon more cerebral analysis.

Perhaps screening at an early age and intervention where appropriate for the purpose of prevention is a part of the solution. Also the media has to act more responsibly, laws against the sexualisation of the young, laws against depictions of violence, teaching in schools that violence is not civilised behaviour and to be abhorred.

A cultural ethic of peace, love and empathy and morals needs reinstating for the world to progress and for the constructive evolution of humanity.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I feel exactly as you do.

a reply to: sn0rch

I like the way you look at it philosophically and appreciate the time you took to write all of that out. I feel like you do as far as not being sad when one of those people is snuffed out. I don't want to be on the sidelines cheering for death by any means, but there will be no tear shed when it happens. I'm feeling a little less alone in my thoughts after reading so many replies here, so I glad I asked and even more glad people were honest enough to talk about it. Thank you for that.

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

And that is exactly the point to what I believe morality to be. Can you put your head on that pillow knowing you've helped or at the very least, not harmed? But again to your original premise...People have got to stop believing that the extreme is the only acceptable method because whether they (and I) want to believe it or not, there is truth and knowledge in every corner of the cosmos. At least consider it...even if you still come to your own decision...consider it

you do Kanga...and that makes you one of the good ones

Very wise words spoken IMO and I thank you kindly for the compliment.

Whatever you do today... you will have to sleep with tonight.

That's a saying that has stuck with me for as long as I can remember and I've beat myself up pretty badly for not listening to it more than a few times. My conscience doesn't hesitate to kick in over some of what most would call mundane things. I agree that we live in a world of grey. In a perfect world things would be as simple as black and white, but that isn't what we have so we need to adjust instead of waiting for the entire world to adjust.

I think it's when we fail to see the grey (and we all do so at times) that we might actually have a problem because judging from this thread most rational people do swing in their views according to the circumstances.

I thank you for your time and insight.

a reply to: Ridhya

I couldn't pass up on... "It's easier to hate than to understand".

I couldn't agree more. I would certainly suffer from a few less nights of no sleep or troubled sleep if I just ignored something, or just didn't care how other people were handling things.

I just can't seem to shut it off even when I really want to. A double edged sword if you will.

And as distasteful as it is, I would have to agree with your professor for the most part. I never really thought of it like that and that's one of the reasons I come to ATS. I get different perspectives even when I am not looking specifically for them.

I thank you for your time as well. I have a new perspective because of it.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Those are definitely new ways of looking at it and trying to find a way to prevent such behaviors. That's certainly better than sitting back and not doing or thinking anything. I don't really know what the answers are, but I know I would like to see things like this eradicated. It will probably never happen, but it will definitely never happen if we don't try and find new ways to deal with this.

You've surely given me a few new things to think about. That's why I love ATS and why I thank you for your post.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I must thank you before I comment. I am blown away not only by your bravery in your admission of what has happened to you, but your bravery in doing what you did to move forward in your life. I'm in awe of that and I am not exaggerating. Humans never cease to amaze me with their capacity to forgive, to rise above, to gain strength, and move on in their life. I suppose that is one of the biggest victories any one person can lay claim to.

We can do terrible things, but we can also do miraculous things.

I thank you again for your time and for your honesty here. If you can do what you did, then those of us who have never been through anything close to that have no excuse not to do the same really. Your posts here have always shown strength and now I can see why. My respect for you has grown. Seriously.

I am so glad that you were able to do what you did and find a way to not let that anger and hatred destroy what life you had left. You could have easily claimed the victim card for the rest of your life and no one could have said a damn thing about it... yet you made the decision to not take that route and that speaks more about what you are made of than any book you could ever write.

Thank you BH.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I feel exactly as you do.

Thank you Char-Lee.

It's always nice to know that you aren't alone in the way you think. I don't think most people talk about this sort of thing because they do fear that they will be seen as some sort of sympathizer. I can understand that, because that's what I fear sometimes as well. Nobody wants to be seen as that... especially not a mother.

I am 37 and my mind still surprises me on occasion by the thoughts that pop up unwarranted and unexpected. You would think you would have passed that at some point, but it's looking like that's not so. I guess most of us wouldn't really want everyone else to be able to read their mind all of the time because of that.

It's good that so many of us have the self control to edit what comes out of our mouths when thoughts like that cross our mind. Think Joe Biden.... exponentially worse. That would really be scary I think.
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FOR ALL OF YOU

I would like to (once again) sincerely thank you for taking the time to participate in my thread. Stars for everyone for your thoughts, opinions, and perspectives. To be a sort of rant, I certainly had many give me new ways to look at things and that is what ATS is all about.



Thanks for helping a Kanga out...

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I feel you. Makes me think of Ghandi. And Martin Luther King.



I mean if someone is shooting, im duckin. If someone is charging me with a knife, i'm runnin. If someone wants to try me with the hands, lol i wish someone would.