Stop with the whole "This President is X" ordeal...

"President Obama is a dead beat..."
"President Bush was a tyrant"
"President Clinton was a wussy"

May I share a tale for all of you?

We go back all the way to the first presidencies, and I will tell you things that would make your blood boil if a President did this.

President John Adams, a Founding Father, a man who opposed slavery to the hilt that he never bought a slave in his life, was responsible for the Alien and Sedition Act, the biggest of which restricted speech that went against Adam's administration. Newspapers were practically shut down across the country and several people went to jail.

Thomas Jefferson, the drafter of the Declaration of Independence, a man so intelligent that all of our brains would fit in one finger of his, used this as a way to become President, promising to overturn what Adams did, to stop the Federalists. Upon becoming President, he pardoned those who were affected by Adams, but then he prosecuted several people who criticized him.

What is my point here? Every President, pretty much from the beginning, including Washington himself, has done some bad stuff.

Have you ever heard the saying "standing on the shoulders of giants", that every accomplishment is only due to what a person did before them?

It's the same thing: we're in the situation we're in right now not because Obama or Bush or anyone else had this power that was never wielded before. They completed what they did due to the previous acts of the presidencies.

Enough with who's the worst president, and can we actually focus on figuring out how to get this country out of the hole it's in?

a reply to: Mak Manto

Nope, president obama is a commie socialist kenya born muslim that is hell bent on an islamic takeover in america.
All while being to dumb to tie his shoes.

Great OP

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Mak Manto

Nope, president obama is a commie socialist kenya born muslim that is hell bent on an islamic takeover in america.
All while being to dumb to tie his shoes.

Great OP

"X" marks the spot !!

a reply to: Mak Manto

I'll be nice and simply say that President Obama is what some of us knew from the very start. As they say, "an empty suit," and I'll add, with a golf club in hand.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Mak Manto

Nope, president obama is a commie socialist kenya born muslim that is hell bent on an islamic takeover in america.
All while being to dumb to tie his shoes.

Great OP

Antichrist, demon spawn of hell.

a reply to: Mak Manto

I've heard people say that our previous president did some bad things. What I'm hearing about our current president is that he is not up to the job, and pretty consistently does bad or questionable things.

It seems that's a significant distinction. Have you thoughts on it?

a reply to: Mak Manto

This is all predicated on the misunderstanding of what the Office of the Presidency entails; its powers delegated and responsibilities held. In the modern United States of America, the belief held is that the President can fix it all; be it Bush or Obama or Nixon or Mr. X.

The worship of the office has tainted the ideals and beliefs of a separation of powers in which each body was given clear and enumerated powers to act upon.

Bush tax cuts? Ha; the Congress passed them with the ability to override a presidential veto.....
Obama executive orders? Ha; Congress yet again has the power to squash any of those with their legislative powers.

Instead, we insist to point to a singular bad guy for all our problems.

Post Script
They are all bad; they have all sold out. To say otherwise in my opinion is to deny yourself your Natural Rights and understanding of how Federalism is supposed to work.

Anything any past President has committed doesn't make Obama any less of a deadbeat.

It just makes him another one.

originally posted by: Mak Manto
What is my point here? Every President, pretty much from the beginning, including Washington himself, has done some bad stuff.

To summarise, your point is that because they've all done something "bad" (understatements excepted! LOL) then that makes it okay?

No, wait!.... It's a quality we should come to expect, desire and reward from those few people in power?

No, no, wait, it's slowly dawning on me now.....yeah.....no. Sorry, I just don't think my cognitive dissonance flux-capacitor is working well tonight. Thankfully there's still beer!

a reply to: Mak Manto
You do make good points about other presidents. I recall Iran Contra, read my lips no new taxes, I did not have sexual intercourse with that woman, There are WMD, you can keep your insurance and doctor. The frustration is, everyone thought Obama was some new messiah, he was going to be fair, just, and stop reckless spending. He was going to change America to make her great, the problem is he has completely, thoroughly and totally lied to us on almost every occasion. I didn't vote for him, he had zero experience and a hidden past in my opinion. Now I am sitting back enjoying the looks on peoples faces that did vote for him....... now that they know they have been duped.

a reply to: Mak Manto

There's a quote I like by Ralph Waldo Emerson:

“A sect or party is an elegant incognito devised to save a man from the vexation of thinking.”

Indeed. The "vexation of thinking" can only lead us to one conclusion: These political leaders who claim the power to change things have never really had that power. The power has ALWAYS been with us, the people. Once we remember that simple fact, there is a lot more hope, but also an awful load of responsibility placed upon our shoulders. The best way forward though this though is to take it on, to the best of our ability, and to stand up to make this world a better place, no matter how small we seem to ourselves to be.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Obama is not a Muslim, he was only raised Muslim, by his Muslim step-father, while attending a Muslim school... in Indonesia.

While it’s true that all Presidents have done some dirty deeds, there are some that are head and shoulders above the others. Top of my list is Woodrow Wilson. By signing the Federal Reserve Act, he sold future generations of Americans into debt slavery to bankers. Barack Obama is at least in the top five, if not #2. By signing Obamacare into law, he added to the debt slavery burden of future Americans, this time to insurance companies. Further, with the help of John Roberts, a legal precedent has been set that will allow the Federal Government to force people to spend money on what the Government wants you to buy.

Notable mention goes to:

George Bush for the Patriot Act.

Richard Nixon for taking the US off the gold standard, triggering the depression of the 70s.

Franklin Roosevelt for the theft of American’s gold, Japanese-American internment camps, and surreptitiously plotting to get America involved in WW2.


As far as solutions go, there is really only one, armed revolt. The Federal Government feels it above the law. It will not follow any law that is contrary to its interests. It does what it wants and takes what it wants by force, and it will not give up anything unless it is are forced to.

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: Mak Manto

There's a quote I like by Ralph Waldo Emerson:

“A sect or party is an elegant incognito devised to save a man from the vexation of thinking.”

Indeed. The "vexation of thinking" can only lead us to one conclusion: These political leaders who claim the power to change things have never really had that power. The power has ALWAYS been with us, the people. Once we remember that simple fact, there is a lot more hope, but also an awful load of responsibility placed upon our shoulders. The best way forward though this though is to take it on, to the best of our ability, and to stand up to make this world a better place, no matter how small we seem to ourselves to be.

Brilliant post!!!

a reply to: abe froman
Indoctrination at a young age is a very powerful tool, one that is not easily put away in the toolbox.

Presidents are selected, not elected. That has to be acknowledged or the masses will continue to vote for their guy. Or vote for "least of the worst". It's going to be a long way starting from the bottom up, an overall weeding out the corruption, to get to the point where it is no longer happening. Otherwise, another puppet will step into place funded by the bigger "agenda" machine, or what seems to be sides of it. Seems that it went full force, after years of being worked on, in the 80s when the check & balances were thrown out of the equation.

Don't worry, its all they have since there gop is a bigger failure than obumer can ever be. You have to give them props for there evolution in insults, they went from commie,muslim,dog eating,racist. To progressive community organizing socialist, you can see they parrot fox news really well, even fox has changed the wording of the insults.

Oh and don't forget if you call them on there faux outrage they call you an obama fan boy or after there little rants they say wait for the racist card comments.

They play the victim game to the t its a thing of beauty.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Sremmos80

Obama is not a Muslim, he was only raised Muslim, by his Muslim step-father, while attending a Muslim school... in Indonesia.

Ya that entire post was sarcasm

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

As far as solutions go, there is really only one, armed revolt. The Federal Government feels it above the law. It will not follow any law that is contrary to its interests. It does what it wants and takes what it wants by force, and it will not give up anything unless it is are forced to.

Although I abhor violence, I am not stating this idea to be wrong. The problem is there is a massive flaw in your thinking here and to start I want to comment about OP's threadstarter

I see people here, in my opinion of course, misunderstanding what OP is saying. I may be reading too deep too but here is what I see. Every single President we've had has messed up royally, lied, cheated, whatever. I make no issue of noting that I greatly enjoyed Clinton's presidency...but I am stupid to think he didn't do some foul things. No, what I read in OP's threadstarter is a deep question of why we expect anyone to be any different? I loathe GW Bush and his actions. I voted for Obama twice and yes am admitting now I was hoodwinked on some things. But the problem is two fold

1. Congress can and DOES screw up things the President had otherwise attempted...on BOTH side...Left and right. No single man or woman should ever hold so much power without checks and balances. The problem is that checks and balances water things down or destroy what might have been good ideas.

but that's only a small problem when you consider...

2. ...that greed rules in many people. There are indeed lovely, selfless and compassionate people out there. Everyday heroes who save lives and change the game for people, not because they want a medal, money or recognition, but because it's the right thing to do. The problem is, it seems that for each of these heroes (and trust me I am not one of them), there are hundreds or thousands of petty, selfish people who think that their needs are the ONLY needs that matter...period

All you have to do to see it is look around you. Forget indoctrination and forget media bias. Just look at the people around you in even the smallest microcosm. Drivers who think their text message is more important than competently steering a 2000 pound metal box. People who cut each other off in lines. People who litter and then get mad at YOU for calling them out. Murder, theft, rape, even more petty crimes like property damage, assault, battery all in the name of control, passion, and this idea that we are the only ones that matter. Now I am not saying that some of these crimes weren't misreported or that some of these crimes were not perhaps related to other issues, but the point is, we live in a society where only "I" matter. I am more important than the environment. MY text message is more important than the kid crossing the street. I deserve to take what's mine be it mind, body or property.

Now, look...I am not trying to compare the gravity of tossing a cigarette but on nice clean grass versus destroying the economy or waging a senseless, oil-fueled war. No...clearly one of these is much more dire. The cigarette makes things ugly and has the potential to harm the environment while the war kills thousands of soldiers and many innocents as well.

What I am getting at is that this me me me attitude is top to bottom and while I think it is terribly selfish and destructive, it does not for one second surprise me that a President acts selfishly or cheats, lies and destroys. I am not surprised one tiny bit.

VictorVonDoom...I hope you've stuck with me because I want to get back to the point of why I quoted you. No...I do not disagree that we need wholesale change and fast. But as I mentioned above these is a massive flaw to your plan.

People are greedy

Let's say tomorrow, we've decided we had enough. Republican and Democrat, Black, white and every other race, Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Jews and all religions or non religions all band together and take down Obama, Congress, SCOTUS, the police, and all the alphabet agencies you can imagine. What then? We erect right? We plan, build, this new fabulous idea where we as a whole, a union, possibly a true democracy, or hell a dictatorship, whatever you want, is going to allow life to flourish and create equality. We enact laws to help soothe all and bring out equal rights while still encouraging healthy competition for the betterment of our new country (or world).

Sounds amazing doesn't it? I am a pretty true Socialist but even this sounds incredible to me. I would be pleased with true capitalism and competition as long as there was equality. But I have to ask...

How long Victor? A week? A month? A year? A decade?

How long until greed erodes us AGAIN? Because this is what happens. We left Europe to be free from persecution and live our lives on our own soil. Now even if you (or anyone) wants to argue that we came here to be religiously free or free to practice Christianity, look at where we are. I am trying hard to be bipartisan here and I genuinely mean it

On one hand, we slap the poor in the face, stomp on their feet and break them and then turn around and tell them "well if you just worked harder you'd be one of us."

On the other hand, we have this new idea that if we just punish the wealthy, all will be fixed even though they actually (in many cases) DID work there way up. And yes, for those researchers who love to troll threads and posts, I am WELL aware that I was one of the people who wanted to punish the wealthy...I am learning...new thread on its way about that

But look, my whole point is, you can read my wall of text or you can look at this little summary. We can overthrow but it will only be a mater of time before the next corruption strikes and then we have to overthrow them. People are greedy and NO group is immune regardless of their circumstance. So yes, we need a wholesale change...but it HAS to be a wholesale change of the individual mind because until we wipe out individual greed, societal and group greed will never disappear.

I don't have answers as to how and I am not even condemning your idea. I am only saying that it is a bandaid, and a poorly fitting one at that

And I mean every single word with great respect to you Victor

-Kyo

a reply to: Mak Manto

I'll Star & Flag ya', because I agree.



ETA
Besides, I'm to worried about Ebola to frankly give a dam!